EASA Licensing / FCL Gatwick

[B737900er]

It's changed from 5 years to 3 years! which has screwed over the boys in the sandpit and rice paddies.

[ElitePilot]

They've completely messed it up for pilots (especially ones flying on other ICAO licenses) and the only people to profit are the FTO/TRTO's. Refer to UK CAA Standards Doc 14 V6 Appendix 4.

As of Sept 2012 for the renewal of Type/Class ratings:
1) Expiry of rating less than 3months: no supplementary reqs
2) Expiry over 3 months-less than a year: minimum 2 training sessions
3) Expiry over 1 year-less than 3 years: minimum 3 training sessions
4) Expiry longer than 3 years: training required for the initial issue of rating

I'm not familiar with the regs for other EASA states but it must be something similar.

[Jonty]

Its the same. Thats the point of EASA. Although the licence is valid for life, the ratings are only valid for 3 years.

[Capot]

My contacts with CAA now tend to be with the Airworthiness side of things, and PLD.

It has been very, very obvious for at least 2 years that there is a complete management failure starting at the very top.

This was brought home at a Safety Management conference about 18 months ago which was addressed by both the Chairman and the CEO of the CAA.

The Chairman, one of those Quango Queens who lunch their way effortlessly from one job they know nothing about to another, lectured about 200 very senior industry executives about how important safety is, based on her brief contact with chocolate bar manufacturing problems.

The CEO addressed us all on much the same topic, in the manner of a primary school teacher trying to keep the kids on her side by being just as smiley and fluffy as she possibly could.

I think many of us, watching this performance, were wondering just how either of them could bring order to the organisation, which by that time was clearly dysfunctional with time-serving incompetents out-weighing the dwindling number of good, motivated and honest staff.

We now know that it has since simply got worse. And it will not get better until the top management, from the Chairman downwards, are swept out and replaced with people who (a) understand the industry and know their stuff backwards, and (b) are ready and able to take control properly and weed out the deadbeats ruthlessly, and (c) understand that the CAA is a service provider to EASA and to the industry.

If we decide to leave the EU, there is even less of a case for staying inside EASA than there is now. But to leave we need a CAA that can regain the clarity of purpose and prestige that it has lost, and that will never happen under the present leadership.

[j.a.b.]

Renewal limits

I might have completely mis-read (and I hope), but I was under the impression that the training required for licence renewal was meant to be based on an individual basis but the CAA have just issued guidelines not anything set in stone?

(From the standards document Part 4, 4.and http://www.easa.europa.eu/agency-mea...20Part-FCL.pdf)

I do work overseas now so there might be newer documents out that I don't know about as I am out of the loop)

[j.a.b.]

This reply might get posted twice as my first one disappeared but it my understanding that the renewal requirements are based on an individual basis but the CAA have just given a recommendation rather than a set amount of training? (Standards doc - Part 4 - 4.4)

I am willing to accept that I might be wrong as I am no longer working in Europe.

[Avenger]

JAB, Training requirements always have been on an "individual basis" as the candidate may require additional training above the " minimum" which, is just that.. a " minimum". If the rating has expired by 3 years or more, in all probability the full type rating course is the only way forward. Ironically, even " current" pilots are given 5 plus sims when changing company and in most cases 8 or 9 sims, i.e a full course content, albeit the content of the sims can vary. The new problem EASA is having now is lack of "approved" simulator facilities for ATOs to have access to..Brussels tell us there is a six month back log for approvals!

[j.a.b.]

Hi Avenger,

Is it a minimum requirement for the training or a recommendation?

I ask as I work overseas and although current on type I was leaving my JAA rating to lapse slightly as it gets expensive renewing it every 12 months. So if it just a recommendation, I take it that all you have to is find a school/examiner that is willing for you just to take the LPC? (which might be much easier said than done)

[Capot]

Re my post above....someone has kindly pointed out that the CEO of the CAA is male, but that the CAA's Group Director Safety Regulation is female, and may or may not be the person with the "primary school teacher" manner.

It was careless of me, and I apologise to the CEO!

[Good Business Sense]

Total meltdown in most departments except those which set the fees.

The "we're not consultants" strap line/mantra will come to haunt them. They are the regulator as their posture proclaims .... the word safety just got lost somewhere.

Sad really !

[Avenger]

JAB,

If the rating has expired by less than 3 months, the ATO can decide no " refresher" training is required, if the rating has expired by more than 3 months and less than 1 year then a minimum of 2 training sessions is required. The length of the session and "training alongside checking" is by arrangement depending on case by case but if the candidate is not operating that type or a similar variant then I would expect 2 full sessions minimum.

[Natstrackalpha]

Its fed! We are all in the same boat (certainly not aeroplane!) I love European people, they are nice - but this European EASA thing has absolutely and totally fed up our system. Send THAT to the cabinet review board.

In fact, it is so fed, I am not quite sure if it is recoverable - don`t blame the CAA, hate them or not, this is not their fault. The paperwork of EASA is a total bloody mess, worse than Bombay red tape in triplicate.

If I wanted to seriously mess up our FCL system I could not have done a better job than this. This, EASA has GOT to be the work of terrorists. No, no, I am NOT joking!!! Any entity like EASA who seizes up our CAA in such a way has got to have subversive terrorist inclinations, very subtle, oh yes.

Thats it, the enemy have won, we are now doomed!!!

DO EASA THINK THIS IS FUNNY?

Not wishing to sound extreme or anything but the head of EASA should be shot, or at least banished from the Earth. It is deplorable!! EASA should be absolutely ashamed of themselves, treating pilots like this who have paid thousands and thousands of £s in training costs (which was banked very quickly indeed) and then spending months MONTHS!! on issuing the bloody licence.

Either EASA gets its act together - like now!!! I mean now, or I go to the police AND THE PRESS, this is beyond redemption!

Watch out EASA this is war!!

I am not kidding! I`ll twist you so badly legally, you will not kniow if it is Shrove Tuesday or Sheffield Wednesday.

So EASA buck up your ideas, get the job done and stop messing about now, this is your last chance.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. PUBLICALLY. and
`am too old to suspend!! Sweet!

Meanwhile, back at camp - where are BALPA and AOPA when you SERIOUSLY need them?!!!

[j.a.b.]

Well i am now as confused as a spaniel chasing my own tail !

I know that I am not the brightest of stars when it comes to paperwork - or anything if you listen to mrs jab - but where does it acrtually mention that there are minimum requiremts for renewing ratings? Does anyone have a reference ?

I think I have the correct manuals - 804 and standards Doc 14 - but I still can't see it

[Avenger]

J.A.B The information, clarity you seek is found in AMC/GM Part FCL 740B (1)
Page 247 of the Acceptable Means of Compliance. This issue was raised at a recent examiners conference along with general lack of sim facilities etc and the potential costs to the candidates. Three months expiry without " training penalty" was considered reasonable, although not all of us agreed with this. The subject of how long a " training session" should be is open provided all the required items are covered in accordance with Part FCL ,generally the more complex manoeuvres will be "trained" it is taken as read that a candidate can perform the basics within limits. It used to be possible to book 2 hour sim slots but lack of capacity and downtime favours 4 hour sessions. In principle two guys could get revalidated in 12 hours, allowing for 2 training sims plus the test, but this is still approaching 3K each allowing for the TRI/SFI and TRE.

[j.a.b.]

Hi - thanks for the link !

I still don't see why it's mandartory as it uses the words 'can be' - but I don't make the rules and if that is how the CAA are understanding them

Thanks again - I better get looking for a Sim out here as I only have weeks left on mine!

[Rangas]

I'll share my experience with UK CAA regarding EASA license as the application process did go easier than expected based on experiences shared here by others.

• My UK JAR ATPL expired at the end of February 2013.
• I renewed my class 1 medical in February 2013.
• My latest JAR Type rating license proficiency check was completed in October 2009.
• I took the language proficiency test in March 2013.

• Visited CAA in Gatwick to put in my application with the required attachments on 19th of March.
• License issued on 7th of April. No active type ratings, showing my expired ratings at the back of the license.

[Jetkopite]

Hey rangas,

Just wanted to ask is it possible to get an EASA ATPL issued with an expired rating??? My rating (B737)on my JAR has been inactive for 5 yrs, can I still get an EASA license issued and have the B737 on the back??

One more thing where did you get the language proficiency test done???

[de facto]

Just wanted to ask is it possible to get an EASA ATPL issued with an expired rating??? My rating (B737)on my JAR has been inactive for 5 yrs, can I still get an EASA license issued and have the B737 on the back??

Yes.

For the english,i suggest you google 'May flower college' and contact them.

Good luck.

[Finals19]

JAA licence sent in March 10th, chased a couple of times and back around April 15th. Apparently there was a system "glitch" at the CAA.

Re: language proficiency - if you're UK airline employed, can't your Flight
Ops department (or maybe your head of training?) certify you instead?