Iberia to Lose 4500 jobs - 25 airframes
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From the IAG website (it might have been posted before, but just in case the Spanish 'conspiracy theorists' missed it [or conveniently chose to ignore it])
Vale
Any questions, hombres?
IAG made an operating profit in the nine months of €17 million, British Airways an operating profit of €286 million, and Iberia an operating loss of €262 million
Any questions, hombres?
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But at least BA are using their latest and most up to date aircraft for their shorthaul services from LGW
Anyway, Spain is deep in recession with their economy in freefall, unemployment of 24-50%, etc.etc. Yes, Iberia is in a fight for survival, but could we really blame their hardline pilots for its failure? I doubt any legacy airline could turn a profit under the circumstances.
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Sepla: "La fusión fija que hasta 2026 la caja de Iberia va a pensiones de BA" | Noticias de Aerolíneas | Revista de turismo Preferente.com
The time delay imposed to the ib going to MIA so the passengers miss all the connections is the most obvious.
For the willie walsh fans that like to cook books, its not the routes that ba had, its the routes that ba has developed and ib misteriously has stop doing even after being profitable.
Thats a way of cooking books and creating losses on a company.
The time delay imposed to the ib going to MIA so the passengers miss all the connections is the most obvious.
For the willie walsh fans that like to cook books, its not the routes that ba had, its the routes that ba has developed and ib misteriously has stop doing even after being profitable.
Thats a way of cooking books and creating losses on a company.
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Don't bother
They just believe their numbers and say that our numbers are lies.
They only use the numbers they want. The losses are real. Yes they are.
They started after the merger
...because that is what they want. They are making every effort to put IB in losses, because as they should know, the size of the airlines in 2015 will determine the proportion of gentlemen of each seating in the board. After that, IB will be excreted. It is just part of the plan.
They say they want to reduce IB and keep only the profitable routes, but then why are they swapping the schedules of them with BA so that BA is doing now the most attractive schedules to MIA and other destinations?
I will now outline what is going on here:
BA can't expand. Not because of lack of market or capital, but because Heathrow is saturated.
Therefore BA wants to get the most out of each slot in LHR. All the best routes and schedules will go for BA in LHR. All the good bussiness passengers (those ones that airlines fiercely fight for) are going to be carried by BA. The remnants for IB.
That is the plan. Squeezing IB, sucking the good part of if, and then excreting the rest.
The merger has proven ill for IB. It was a big mistake. As big as the Euro, mistake which you british have very cleverly averted.
But don't worry. Don't think the crisis is over. As we speak, europe's economy is stagnating again. Even germany is not growing. France is starting to show some bad symptoms. The worse is still to come, I'm afraid.
Anyway. I hope we will all keep a good health an discuss about all this in the future years, and we will see who was right, you or us. It's just a matter of time.
They just believe their numbers and say that our numbers are lies.
They only use the numbers they want. The losses are real. Yes they are.
They started after the merger
...because that is what they want. They are making every effort to put IB in losses, because as they should know, the size of the airlines in 2015 will determine the proportion of gentlemen of each seating in the board. After that, IB will be excreted. It is just part of the plan.
They say they want to reduce IB and keep only the profitable routes, but then why are they swapping the schedules of them with BA so that BA is doing now the most attractive schedules to MIA and other destinations?
I will now outline what is going on here:
BA can't expand. Not because of lack of market or capital, but because Heathrow is saturated.
Therefore BA wants to get the most out of each slot in LHR. All the best routes and schedules will go for BA in LHR. All the good bussiness passengers (those ones that airlines fiercely fight for) are going to be carried by BA. The remnants for IB.
That is the plan. Squeezing IB, sucking the good part of if, and then excreting the rest.
The merger has proven ill for IB. It was a big mistake. As big as the Euro, mistake which you british have very cleverly averted.
But don't worry. Don't think the crisis is over. As we speak, europe's economy is stagnating again. Even germany is not growing. France is starting to show some bad symptoms. The worse is still to come, I'm afraid.
Anyway. I hope we will all keep a good health an discuss about all this in the future years, and we will see who was right, you or us. It's just a matter of time.
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Ok, purely for the entertainment value and I know I'm probably going to regret asking this........
Please put forward your alternative strategy for turning the ailing business around to profit.
We're all ears.
Please put forward your alternative strategy for turning the ailing business around to profit.
We're all ears.
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They just believe their numbers and say that our numbers are lies
Start with a link to a reputable site to show that Iberia had 4 Billion Euros of reserves prior to the merger
Microburst
I may not agree with some of the postings and some of the sentiments expressed here but as someone who lives nearer to Madrid than London I've got a bit of insight into just how how grim things could get south of the Pyrennees , so when you say:
I have to say I'm fully in agreement...
I may not agree with some of the postings and some of the sentiments expressed here but as someone who lives nearer to Madrid than London I've got a bit of insight into just how how grim things could get south of the Pyrennees , so when you say:
Anyway. I hope we will all keep a good health an discuss about all this in the future years, and we will see who was right, you or us. It's just a matter of time.
Last edited by wiggy; 15th Nov 2012 at 18:15.
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Low-cost: Iberia Express: Podría triplicar su flota y quedarse con los vuelos de corto-medio radio de Iberia
This goes in the line of what microburst correctly is saying.
The low cost carrier ib express will fly the short and medium of ib for pennies, ib pilots will get lowcostized or fired and then the new ib will be refounded after deleting the name express of the fuselage.
Willie walsh will keep making profits, ib ceo lozano will get his 2.5 million bonus for cutting jobs and the posters in pprune, that most arent pilots, will keep saying nonsense.
And btw, iag cooked books are not a reputabñe source.
This goes in the line of what microburst correctly is saying.
The low cost carrier ib express will fly the short and medium of ib for pennies, ib pilots will get lowcostized or fired and then the new ib will be refounded after deleting the name express of the fuselage.
Willie walsh will keep making profits, ib ceo lozano will get his 2.5 million bonus for cutting jobs and the posters in pprune, that most arent pilots, will keep saying nonsense.
And btw, iag cooked books are not a reputabñe source.
Last edited by dlcmdrx; 15th Nov 2012 at 18:58.
And btw, iag cooked books are not a reputabñe source.
Last edited by wiggy; 15th Nov 2012 at 19:42.
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Reading some of the atrocious comments re the crew on Skytrax and IB's ranking especially when one compares it to BA I am surprised IB lasted as long as they did and this reorganisation could well be the change that they so sorely need.
IB was voted in the top 10 worst airlines of the world.
I am appalled by some of the comments of our Spanish members here and would dread to think they were actually crew.
There surely must be some good and decent crew at IB and I do feel for them and the future that they are facing.
IB was voted in the top 10 worst airlines of the world.
I am appalled by some of the comments of our Spanish members here and would dread to think they were actually crew.
There surely must be some good and decent crew at IB and I do feel for them and the future that they are facing.
Last edited by cldrvr; 15th Nov 2012 at 20:33.
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The terms Spanish practices or old Spanish customs are United Kingdom expressions that refer to irregular or restrictive practices in workers' interests. Typically, these are arrangements that have been negotiated in the past between employers and unions.
Brewer's Twentieth Century Phrase and Fable describes the phrase (rather unconvincingly) as 'industrial slang for restrictive practices, so called because of the punitive treatment meted out by the Spanish Inquisition'. Nigel Rees, in his Phrases and Sayings, says it's not clear why the Spanish are blamed, 'except that Spaniards tend to attract pejoratives - not least with regard to working practices (the mañana attitude)'. A glance at Partridge's Dictionary of Slang shows that the British have taken delight in abusing the Spanish for centuries: 'Spanish gout' was syphilis; 'Spanish padlock' a chastity belt; a 'Spanish trumpeter' an ass braying (as in Don Key).
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The "I'll believe only what I want to believe and I will completely ignore/denounce any hard evidence to the contrary" is so depressingly familiar and is guaranteed to end in tears.
Accept the world the way it is and negotiate intelligently with IAG management and you will get a better outcome.
There is a fundamental lack of understanding in this thread as to how IAG works. IAG itself is a holding/management company and the individual member airlines are separate businesses with their own credit identities that have to stand on their own feet without any cross guarantees by IAG. Member airlines do not "steal" routes from each other. IAG's job is to oversee the overall strategy and maximisation of merger synergies.
For what it's worth Iberia has issued a statement rubbishing SEPLA's claims, not that some seem minded to listen to anything that doesn't equate with their worldview.
Noticias - Iberia
Oh, and if Iberia pilots are so convinced their are victims of a vast conspiracy in which IAG's auditors are complicit in engaging in false accounting there is absolutely nothing stopping Iberia's unions hiring their own firm of accountants to review Iberia's accounts under a non-disclosure agreement.
Accept the world the way it is and negotiate intelligently with IAG management and you will get a better outcome.
There is a fundamental lack of understanding in this thread as to how IAG works. IAG itself is a holding/management company and the individual member airlines are separate businesses with their own credit identities that have to stand on their own feet without any cross guarantees by IAG. Member airlines do not "steal" routes from each other. IAG's job is to oversee the overall strategy and maximisation of merger synergies.
For what it's worth Iberia has issued a statement rubbishing SEPLA's claims, not that some seem minded to listen to anything that doesn't equate with their worldview.
Noticias - Iberia
Oh, and if Iberia pilots are so convinced their are victims of a vast conspiracy in which IAG's auditors are complicit in engaging in false accounting there is absolutely nothing stopping Iberia's unions hiring their own firm of accountants to review Iberia's accounts under a non-disclosure agreement.
Last edited by Omnipresent; 15th Nov 2012 at 20:39.
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OK
Some one from BA can please provide me with the losses of IB year by year until the merger took place?
Also, Can some one verify if it is true that MIA flight schedule between IB and BA have been swapped?
Some one from BA can please provide me with the losses of IB year by year until the merger took place?
Also, Can some one verify if it is true that MIA flight schedule between IB and BA have been swapped?
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Omnipresent
There is no need to cook any books, when the CEO is doing every effort to make the airline lose money!
I can make BA lose money from tomorrow morning if you appoint me as CEO and I can make a profit out of it.
In 2015 the distribution of the board between IB and BA will be determined based of the relative size of both companies.
Is it a coincidence that just after the merger IB is in a deadly spin, when it was quite OK before it took place?
According to you, guys, IB workers deserve what they are having because they are spanish, basically. It is a miracle that IB lasted so long. (Just until the merger, pheew...)
There is no need to cook any books, when the CEO is doing every effort to make the airline lose money!
I can make BA lose money from tomorrow morning if you appoint me as CEO and I can make a profit out of it.
In 2015 the distribution of the board between IB and BA will be determined based of the relative size of both companies.
Is it a coincidence that just after the merger IB is in a deadly spin, when it was quite OK before it took place?
According to you, guys, IB workers deserve what they are having because they are spanish, basically. It is a miracle that IB lasted so long. (Just until the merger, pheew...)
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The statutory accounts for both companies are all on the IAG website:
IAG - International Airlines Group
IAG - International Airlines Group
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Ok, purely for the entertainment value and I know I'm probably going to regret asking this........
Please put forward your alternative strategy for turning the ailing business around to profit.
We're all ears.
Please put forward your alternative strategy for turning the ailing business around to profit.
We're all ears.
Secondly, not managing the company with the ass.
To do a restructuring does not necessarily mean firing thousands and hiring thousands for peanuts. That is not restructuring, that is changing the whole rules of the game.
Any ashole can make a bussiness into the black numbers by doing that. There is no need to go to Harvard. It works perfectly, I promise to you.
The real skill is managing the resources you have to make profit. Reducing costs is one thing and reducing salaries quite another. Slavery would also be very useful to reduce costs. IAG lawyers are exploring the possibilities and are already lobbying in Madrid (only).
You all seem to be very understanding of the need of lowering salaries to make the company make money. Are you shareholders??
There is many ways to save a company. Reducing profits is one. YES. Just the same as a starting company takes years to have the first profit, it can spend years without them while it waits for better times. It is exactly the same sacrifice that they mandate to the workers. But no. Screw the workers. No bonuses are paid if there are no profits!!!
If indonesian shoemakers work 18 hours a day for 5 dolars and a meal a day, Does it mean that british shoemakers have to do the same so that their company can lower the prices, too? NO. It means that importing indonesian shoes in UK should be heavily taxed.
See? There are many ways to solve the same problem. The solution will inevitably bring new ones. the new problems don't necessarily have to be screwing the workers. It is not written in the bible, I think.
I never understand why you guys, not being capitalists (you don't own real capital) defend them so vehemently.
When the crisis hits, they ask sacrifices to the people. We sacrifice, they profit and after the crisis there is no payback. things don't go back to "normal". The crisis is the perfect excuse.
Give me a crisis in the UK. I will then give an speech with the words "streamline" and "synergy" and then you are fuked. Streamlining hurts as much as being fuked in the azz, and so do synergies.
God forbid they streamline you!!
I hope I entertained you