Norwegian Malaga Roster and new bases
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Dannyagilla
You could not be more wrong about me being in the pay of MOL ! You are mistaking me seeing the situation as it is for loyalty to Ryanair/MOL.
I see the employment/ contract situation clearly as it is as we speak, I don't confuse it with what I would like it to be.
The big problem with pilots is that a few years back a few rich kids decided to buy type ratings to get ahead in the business, it worked for the first few but quite quickly the bean counters decided that along with the seats in the cabin they could sell the right hand seat to some young hopeful.
The Ryanair situation is the distillation of that attitude and only when the young and misinformed stop paying for all their training will the situation change.
The first indications of things changing is that the banks in the UK will no longer give unsecured loans for pilot training, along with the realization that the job is not what it was will result in a pilot shortage over the next ten years or so.
Only when this bites and airlines have to invest their own money in pilot training will airlines start to offer a remuneration package aimed at retaining pilots, at the moment they don't need to because some sucker will come along and pay to become a first officer.
From the captain perspective we can see the light at the end of the tunnel with Ryanair taking type rated captains and only asking for a training bond rather than the money up front as was the case until quite recently.
I have to ask, did you pay for a type rating?
I see the employment/ contract situation clearly as it is as we speak, I don't confuse it with what I would like it to be.
The big problem with pilots is that a few years back a few rich kids decided to buy type ratings to get ahead in the business, it worked for the first few but quite quickly the bean counters decided that along with the seats in the cabin they could sell the right hand seat to some young hopeful.
The Ryanair situation is the distillation of that attitude and only when the young and misinformed stop paying for all their training will the situation change.
The first indications of things changing is that the banks in the UK will no longer give unsecured loans for pilot training, along with the realization that the job is not what it was will result in a pilot shortage over the next ten years or so.
Only when this bites and airlines have to invest their own money in pilot training will airlines start to offer a remuneration package aimed at retaining pilots, at the moment they don't need to because some sucker will come along and pay to become a first officer.
From the captain perspective we can see the light at the end of the tunnel with Ryanair taking type rated captains and only asking for a training bond rather than the money up front as was the case until quite recently.
I have to ask, did you pay for a type rating?
Last edited by A and C; 9th Nov 2012 at 10:41.
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Danny, before you start trying to sing the praises of NAS (in an attempt to make Ryanair look even worse than they undoubtedly are) . . . . . . . .
The LGW job is via Aero Professional, who have offerd some of the worst contract terms for pilots I have seen this last few years.
The NAS Spanish based CC are on a rolling 6mth contract through Addeco, a well known bunch of Spanish parasites who successfully prevent employees achieving full time contracts.
Most NAS CC based in ARN are contractors on a 1 year rolling contract.
NAS CC based in HEL are contractors working through an Estonian/Polish (depending on the contract) but actually Norwegian "false company" similar to the "It's not really Ryanair it's Brookfield" set up. ARPI Estonia/Poland (nope, actually good old Norway)
Doesn't make FR any better, but please , stop telling us that Bjorn Kjos is really Father Xmas
The LGW job is via Aero Professional, who have offerd some of the worst contract terms for pilots I have seen this last few years.
The NAS Spanish based CC are on a rolling 6mth contract through Addeco, a well known bunch of Spanish parasites who successfully prevent employees achieving full time contracts.
Most NAS CC based in ARN are contractors on a 1 year rolling contract.
NAS CC based in HEL are contractors working through an Estonian/Polish (depending on the contract) but actually Norwegian "false company" similar to the "It's not really Ryanair it's Brookfield" set up. ARPI Estonia/Poland (nope, actually good old Norway)
Doesn't make FR any better, but please , stop telling us that Bjorn Kjos is really Father Xmas
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A&C,
it's the first post of yours that I fully agree with, pay to fly kids are one of the main causes of this race to the bottom.
No I did not pay for any type rating nor am I paying any accountant I didn't chose nor am I buying uniforms from the approved tailor nor am I ever buying anything onboard nor ever talking anyone into flying with Ryanair....it's my little war against the system
captplaystation,
I know very well that NAS isn't a dream job and that the Ryanair methods are contagious (Easyjet flexicrew, NAS contractors,Wizzair dodgy contracts in Switzerland, Volotea FR alikes.....) but at least ,in the LGW case, they are recruiting people giving them a fixed salary and paid leave which are unheard of in Ryanair.
The last CC hired through one of the FR scam companies are making 800€/month after paying 3000 for a course after which they can't even open the cockpit door....
it's the first post of yours that I fully agree with, pay to fly kids are one of the main causes of this race to the bottom.
No I did not pay for any type rating nor am I paying any accountant I didn't chose nor am I buying uniforms from the approved tailor nor am I ever buying anything onboard nor ever talking anyone into flying with Ryanair....it's my little war against the system
captplaystation,
I know very well that NAS isn't a dream job and that the Ryanair methods are contagious (Easyjet flexicrew, NAS contractors,Wizzair dodgy contracts in Switzerland, Volotea FR alikes.....) but at least ,in the LGW case, they are recruiting people giving them a fixed salary and paid leave which are unheard of in Ryanair.
The last CC hired through one of the FR scam companies are making 800€/month after paying 3000 for a course after which they can't even open the cockpit door....
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Dannyagilla in answer to your question I fly a number of types and do work for three or four companies.
Due to a posable conflict of interest between them I will not say exactly who they are, one thing I will say it is not Ryanair, also should point out my aviation activitys are not confined to flying but these activities require me to have current B737, A320, MEP, SEP & SPA/IR ratings current as well as maintenance licences.
I have indirectly flown for Ryanair but only aircraft that have been contracted in via another operator.
Due to a posable conflict of interest between them I will not say exactly who they are, one thing I will say it is not Ryanair, also should point out my aviation activitys are not confined to flying but these activities require me to have current B737, A320, MEP, SEP & SPA/IR ratings current as well as maintenance licences.
I have indirectly flown for Ryanair but only aircraft that have been contracted in via another operator.
Last edited by A and C; 11th Nov 2012 at 00:48.
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A&C I have also flown elsewhere before and have a few ratings behind me..... starting with the F16 onwards....but I guess this is not the topic.
You are very clearly a management pilot somewhere and your focus is on the task to be completed more than the methods to carry out the task, you dislike the pay to fly cadet "cancer" but are very happy to let experienced captains fly as disguised contractors or liable LTD directors justifying immoral working practices in the name of the free market, the same free market that gave birth to the cadet business.
It is called hypocrisy at my latitudes....
Hypocrisy + corporate greed + immoral working practices = decline
You are very clearly a management pilot somewhere and your focus is on the task to be completed more than the methods to carry out the task, you dislike the pay to fly cadet "cancer" but are very happy to let experienced captains fly as disguised contractors or liable LTD directors justifying immoral working practices in the name of the free market, the same free market that gave birth to the cadet business.
It is called hypocrisy at my latitudes....
Hypocrisy + corporate greed + immoral working practices = decline
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Dannyagilla
The first thing is that from a pilot point of view I am NOT one of the management, on the maintenance side I am a director of the companies that I work with.
I see your objection to contractors as a political one because you ae happy to live in a place were the state considers almost anyone as an employee and taxes you on that basis, the state I live in let's peope like me with multiple income streams who don't work just for one company pay tax ( both income and social) in the same way as a company.
This way of working is very good for me when I work within the tax system in my state of residenceall they want is their cut of my income at the end of the year, your problem is that your state of residence takes a different view of the way you make your income and wants to control it much more tightly.
I cand see this immorality issue at all I work and I pay my taxes that are due in my state of residence, I do operate out of other EU states but don't burden those states in any way, so why should they tax me if I am not a burden to them or can't have any representation in the way they spend my taxes ?
As I have said all along the problem is that the EU has failed to put into place regulations that are uniform across the EU and what is not lawfull in your state of residence is lawfull in by state of residence.
You can't call me immoral for working legally within the tax framework of the state I reside in, if you don't like the way I work then get your representatives at the EU to change the law across the EU.
If it is a good idea to be controled but the Unites States of Europe is another issue.
I see your objection to contractors as a political one because you ae happy to live in a place were the state considers almost anyone as an employee and taxes you on that basis, the state I live in let's peope like me with multiple income streams who don't work just for one company pay tax ( both income and social) in the same way as a company.
This way of working is very good for me when I work within the tax system in my state of residenceall they want is their cut of my income at the end of the year, your problem is that your state of residence takes a different view of the way you make your income and wants to control it much more tightly.
I cand see this immorality issue at all I work and I pay my taxes that are due in my state of residence, I do operate out of other EU states but don't burden those states in any way, so why should they tax me if I am not a burden to them or can't have any representation in the way they spend my taxes ?
As I have said all along the problem is that the EU has failed to put into place regulations that are uniform across the EU and what is not lawfull in your state of residence is lawfull in by state of residence.
You can't call me immoral for working legally within the tax framework of the state I reside in, if you don't like the way I work then get your representatives at the EU to change the law across the EU.
If it is a good idea to be controled but the Unites States of Europe is another issue.
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A&C,
you talk like one of those mediocre management guys who rants on about profit and competition while failing to realize that you'll go nowhere if your task is more important than the people who are supposed to carry it out.
Especially if you keep talking about your personal situation to 3000 FR pilots who have nothing in common with your case.
In my country,just like in most EU countries, self employment is well defined by LAWS and one of those basic definitions is that a self employed person is free to work for different clients and free to manage their own time just to name a couple; well a FR pilot isn't free to work for others (obviously because that would limit his available flight hours) as well as he isn't in control of his working times nor annual leave.
At my latitudes it is called employment scam, if in your country of residence it is OK then fine....but please don't try to export it to my country of residence.
But FR has probably realized they are at fault here and have changed their plans forcing new joiners and those with expiring contracts to setup LTD and become company directors; well in my country of residence this is a legal scam for so many reasons that I will not even waste my time trying to explain.
Is this OK where you live?Fine but again...don't try to export it to my cointry of residence.
By the way if you carry out your business in YOUR country of residence I have nothing to object, it is when you reside in your fantastic country but carry out your work in MINE while applying YOUR rules that things become immoral.
Is that clear enough?
By the way I will not waste my time complaining to some EU institution run by bankers and corporate lobbies, I will simply contact my local tax and police authorities and report anything I deem illegal and immoral according to the laws of my country of residence.
you talk like one of those mediocre management guys who rants on about profit and competition while failing to realize that you'll go nowhere if your task is more important than the people who are supposed to carry it out.
Especially if you keep talking about your personal situation to 3000 FR pilots who have nothing in common with your case.
In my country,just like in most EU countries, self employment is well defined by LAWS and one of those basic definitions is that a self employed person is free to work for different clients and free to manage their own time just to name a couple; well a FR pilot isn't free to work for others (obviously because that would limit his available flight hours) as well as he isn't in control of his working times nor annual leave.
At my latitudes it is called employment scam, if in your country of residence it is OK then fine....but please don't try to export it to my country of residence.
But FR has probably realized they are at fault here and have changed their plans forcing new joiners and those with expiring contracts to setup LTD and become company directors; well in my country of residence this is a legal scam for so many reasons that I will not even waste my time trying to explain.
Is this OK where you live?Fine but again...don't try to export it to my cointry of residence.
By the way if you carry out your business in YOUR country of residence I have nothing to object, it is when you reside in your fantastic country but carry out your work in MINE while applying YOUR rules that things become immoral.
Is that clear enough?
By the way I will not waste my time complaining to some EU institution run by bankers and corporate lobbies, I will simply contact my local tax and police authorities and report anything I deem illegal and immoral according to the laws of my country of residence.
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T&C, Assesment
Hi!!
I am considering to apply for Norwegian for the LGW...do you know the full details of the contract??
Has anyone done the Norwegian assesment recently? if so, could you tell us what they are looking for?
Many thanks
I am considering to apply for Norwegian for the LGW...do you know the full details of the contract??
Has anyone done the Norwegian assesment recently? if so, could you tell us what they are looking for?
Many thanks
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By the way I will not waste my time complaining to some EU institution run by bankers and corporate lobbies, I will simply contact my local tax and police authorities and report anything I deem illegal and immoral according to the laws of my country of residence.
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Guys,
Taxation issues aside, has anyone who applied recently had any response from NAS, with the exception of the standard acknowledgement email? Has anyone emailed PARC etc. with their CV too?
Taxation issues aside, has anyone who applied recently had any response from NAS, with the exception of the standard acknowledgement email? Has anyone emailed PARC etc. with their CV too?
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Anyone heard anything from NAS? Me...not a dickybird since their acknowledgement email 4 weeks ago. I'm wondering if their HR Vultures are circling overhead SAS HQ...there (sadly) may be a few Pilots they can mop up if things go Pear Shaped.