Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

Easyjet Recruitment

Old 19th Aug 2012, 09:39
  #141 (permalink)  

Ut Sementem Feeceris
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 2,926
I thought the French contact was zero pension? Or was that the Spanish... or German... or Italian?

Last edited by A4; 19th Aug 2012 at 09:40.
A4 is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2012, 13:47
  #142 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 160
That was the Spanish one, which has now gone due to MAD base closure. Even so, they had an extra performance bonus instead. This was never guaranteed, but I believe it was always paid whilst MAD was open. It was worth a fortune by sounds of things.
Full Left Rudder is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2012, 09:57
  #143 (permalink)  
Robert G Mugabe
Posts: n/a
It was worth a fortune by sounds of things.
Thus contributing to the base closure.
Old 20th Aug 2012, 11:24
  #144 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 160
Possibly, but probably not the major factor. Airport charges are reportedly causing all airlines, including Iberia, serious issues in MAD.
Full Left Rudder is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2012, 12:59
  #145 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Spain and United Kingdom
Posts: 1,747
Crew costs are irrelevant to the closure of MAD. Airport departure tax from there (& BCN) will increase from approx 11 to 28 euros per passenger in 2013. Most passengers won't pay the extra 17 euros and those that do may see lots of empty seats around them. Since the profit per passenger is less than 17 euros per flight I don't really see any point in LCC's operating out of MAD (or BCN) at all .
Nightstop is offline  
Old 21st Aug 2012, 16:25
  #146 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: DXB & FL 410
Posts: 922
Hasn't an above inflation pay rise just been agreed this year for permanent contract pilots!??
Love it. Divide and .........................

Was it just me who read the Roland Berger report from 2007..?

What was decided then is now in force - PM me and I'll sned you the report.

You will and won't be amazed inequal measure.

Caroline's share options look so so good right now
Craggenmore is offline  
Old 21st Aug 2012, 17:44
  #147 (permalink)  
Robert G Mugabe
Posts: n/a
I remember it well. It has come to pass. The war is over.
Old 21st Aug 2012, 23:19
  #148 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 942
Sadly crew costs were a factor in the MAD base closure, among a host of others that made the situation untenable. There are a number of pilots with their heads in the sand believing that somehow what they earn has no affect on profits and sustainability. The bottom line is, however, that like all our households, money-in must exceed money-out. Basically no part of the operation was attractive financially and easyJet pulled the plug, simply because they had to. As it happens, the Spanish government had made things so difficult that the business case to continue was evaporating daily, although the rumour doing the rounds (completely unsubstantiated I might add) is that they are looking for incentives to stop us and others leaving. If at any time in the future easyJet does base aircraft in Spain again, I guarantee the new contract will be way less attractive than the current one.
Alexander de Meerkat is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2012, 07:37
  #149 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Italy
Posts: 239

Nowhere has crew cost been mentioned in connection with the MAD base closure.
This a cut and paste from the official statement:

The Madrid base is delivering returns well below all of easyJet’s other bases. This is due to a combination of over capacity in the Spanish airline market, leading to low revenue per passenger, combined with high airport charges which have more than doubled in the last two years and will be subject to further above inflation increases in the coming years.
Please provide a reference to support your claim or stop scaremongering. This statement of yours serves only to spread fear and as an incentive for pilot groups in other bases to finance easyJet's profit with pay cuts to stay "safe" in their home base. In other words, a race to the bottom.

I do agree that our management would probably try to offer less the second time around if a base was to open in Spain. That's in the very nature of our low cost model. Nonetheless you are not helping anyone by getting your facts mixed up.
SmokeAndNoise is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2012, 09:48
  #150 (permalink)  
Robert G Mugabe
Posts: n/a
From the annual report 2011

Ground operations cost per seat increased by 3.0% of which around half was due to changes in exchange rates. Good progress was made in renegotiating contracts with ground handlers and reducing the use of optional services at airports, however this was more than offset by price increases at regulated airports,notably London Gatwick and the AENA airports in Spain. Successful delivery of easyJet’s strategy requires the use of more expensive, often regulated, primary airports, and we will continue to develop more efficient ways of working to contain cost per seat in this area.
Cost per seat (excluding fuel) include

1.Ground Operations
5.Selling and marketing
6.Other Costs

So in order for a base to be profitable revenue per seat must be greater than cost per seat. It then stands to reason that if crew costs are excessive something has to give. Combined with higher costs from 1 and 3 bye bye Madrid.

So Smoke and Noise crew costs did indeed contribute to Madrid Base closure. To claim otherwise is naive and simplistic.

Last edited by Robert G Mugabe; 22nd Aug 2012 at 09:50.
Old 22nd Aug 2012, 10:29
  #151 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Milan
Age: 42
Posts: 72
DO NOT send your resumes to easyJet!!!!!! Avoid the flexicrew contracts!!!!
La Coneja is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2012, 23:21
  #152 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Italy
Posts: 239

Crew cost in MAD was a known constant negotiated between easyJet and SEPLA, based on a market benchmark and to the satisfaction of both parties.

If then other costs rose it's not correct to say that crew cost made MAD unprofitable.

Don't get confused.
SmokeAndNoise is offline  
Old 23rd Aug 2012, 00:57
  #153 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 942
Smoke and Noise - Neither myself or Robert G. Mugabe are the slightest confused. It is not scaremongering to say that if a base does not make money it will close - it is a fact that has been sadly proven by the experiences of Dortmund, East Midlands and now Madrid. It seems to me an entirely accurate view that the Company have no choice but to make money or die - very simple maths in anyone's books. It is indeed the prerogative of the local union to call the bluff of the management when they squawk - it is, however, a very risky business as they are always so well pleased. Se you soon. AdM
Alexander de Meerkat is offline  
Old 23rd Aug 2012, 03:16
  #154 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Doha
Age: 9
Posts: 433
Return on capital employed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Black Pudding is offline  
Old 23rd Aug 2012, 09:55
  #155 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Italy
Posts: 239
Dear ADM

It is not scaremongering to say that if a base does not make money it will close
Correct! Times are tough and bases must perform or die. I never costested this fact.

It is, however, scaremongering to say that MAD is closing because of crew cost. See my post above with quote from CMC.

But if you really want to go down that road, how big s salary sacrifice would it have taken to keep MAD in profit? 20%? 40%?

Which base would then have found itself on the bottom of the rankings? Would the crew then have to fund a higher profit than MAD out of their own pockets?

I'm not directly affected by the closure but who knows, might see you soon anyway! Ciao ciao
SmokeAndNoise is offline  
Old 23rd Aug 2012, 10:55
  #156 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 11
S a N
You're quite right in your statement. Crew wages are a very small factor in overall financial performance , unless they're disproportionally higher than the company average. To seriously affect they would have to be 2 perhaps 3 fold higher then the company average. as it stands it costs an average pax less than a pound to pay for a pilot on a particular flight, now think about the average ticket price.

As for easy management they ill tell you whatever suites them best at the time. And if at first you don't believe it they will repeated it a 100 times until you do.
Our ceo (obe) is very good at this. If you think a new deal of £25000 ( luckily rejected) for new joiners is good , then you must be totaly out of touch, or very clever. Or she is so very clever.

Now close your eyes and say "this is a good deal" a 100 times.

Now for new guys coming via Parc.
  • Thers absolutely no guarantie you will get a permanent contract even after 2 years of flexy gipsy existance. Some approaching 3 years.
  • No one knows what conditions will be on the table when it comes to signing one. They are very likely to be much much lover then the present ones that permanent f/o's are on. ( look £25k proposal)
  • Don't expect Parc to tell you any of the above.
  • Warick B must be loughing all the way to the bank ( as I mentioned earlier his wife is senior management at Parc, no wander we have flexi contractc here)
  • I believe you'd much better off going to ryanair.
ROBMEDIUM is offline  
Old 23rd Aug 2012, 10:55
  #157 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 942
Smoke and Noise - Please read what has been said by myself and others on this issue and not what has not been said. No one is saying, or has ever said, that the Madrid base is closing because of crew cost. What myself and Robert G. Mugabe are saying that to think that crew cost is not a factor among many is very unwise. Clearly, as has always been said, the Spanish government's total misunderstanding of how to manage its debt and its failure to realise that bills piled onto foreign businesses will not be paid indefinitely. EasyJet and others have voted with their feet and said that they can no longer operate competitively there and therefore walked away. No part of the cost-income equation worked for us and that includes crew costs. I have stated openly that I do not believe the salary levels on offer at Madrid were supportable in a low-cost operation - I stand by that view. We all want top dollar - the income from the business must support that, and it is very apparent that few pilots can grasp the relationship between their income and the business's success. As I have stated elsewhere, if there are cuts to be made then everyone must bear the pain, particularly management who cannot expect huge bonuses if everyone else takes a pay cut. We are nowhere near that situation at other bases, but the stark fact is that the Madrid base could not make money for a whole variety of unpalatable reasons - therefore it closed.
Alexander de Meerkat is offline  
Old 23rd Aug 2012, 11:31
  #158 (permalink)  
Robert G Mugabe
Posts: n/a
Smoke and noise

No one is saying Madrid closed down as a result of crew costs but more a combination of factors of which crew costs was one.

I think you will find of the factors that contribute to cost per seat crew costs is the one management will target. As all the others have been cut to the bone.

In the UK flexicrew contracts provide the best value for money. Note 50 or so positions lost over the winter. This combined with the steady stream of wannabes provides cheap labour for easyjet.

As everyone knows the Portuguese contract is heavily weighed in easyjets favour.

The Madrid contract with its amazing remuneration ( as crowed about by those on it ) soon to be gone with the base.

The latest French strike rumoured to be as a direct result of those from Madrid being offered a Nice base on a substantially worse deal than other French based crew.

With regard to France. The socialists will realise that the end of austerity is not achievable without a more flexible labour force with less state entitlements. Cue a winter/ summer of discontent with flexicrew being positioned in to cover your flights when the whole of France strikes. Then when your advantageous tax arrangements come to an end no doubt you all will ask easyjet to cover the difference and then strike when told to swivel.

As was told to a german based pilot when winging at WB During SEP a few years back "if you don't like it you can always leave"

The problem is we are in a European recession and supply of pilots outweighs demand. I guess we all value our labour more than the company does but that's life.
Old 23rd Aug 2012, 12:12
  #159 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 11
Sleazy jet

S n N
Quite correct. Crew wages contribute very little towards overall costs. If you think of it it costs an average pax less than a pound fo an average pilot. Now airport charges increase of 50% will affect financial performance significantly.
The management of course will tell you whatever suites them best at the time, and if you won't believe it they will say it a 100 times until you do.
Our ceo is quite good at this. £25k for new joiners ( luckily rejected ). And guess what quote: " it really is a good deal". Must have heard it a 100 times.!

Now for new Parc joiners
  • There is abslutly no guarantee you will get a permanent contract even after 2 years, some approaching 3 years.
  • If it comes to signing one the conditions are likely to be much much lower then those that present permanent F/O's are on, ( look 25k proposal) W B is loughing all the way to the bank as his wife is a senior management at Parc.
  • People are being laid off over winter period untill march.
  • I believe now is the time where new joiner would much better off at ryanair.
ROBMEDIUM is offline  
Old 23rd Aug 2012, 12:49
  #160 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: U.K.
Posts: 529
easyJet UK based pilots are dealing with a 'prisoner dilemma':


Both of you need to say 'no more'.
BlackandBrown is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.