Turboprop to Jet
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Turboprop to Jet
Just wondering. Have you any idea how to do this (I mean old classic way piston-turboprop-jet). It seems that (for ex.) turboprop pilot career (piston-turboprop-TRI/TRE) becomes a "whole-life career" in nowadays without any possibility to become a jet (big jet) pilot (I`m agree to be bonded, but not PTF scheme)
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Igel
Forget it. Look at the situation in the UK, if you are stuck at one of the turbo prop operators over here like Flybe, Eastern, Loganair etc then you can forget going to EasyJet, Thomas Cook, Monarch, Thomson etc because of the mighty CTC.
Experience counts for nothing nowadays, the only way into a jet job over here is BA, or move to the Middle East. The natural career progression for TP pilots has been well and truly cut off and is not likely to change. There is Jet2, but if you're from the South then you have to be prepared to move North. There's some very good, and experienced TP pilots who will probably spend their careers flying TPs because they've had most avenues closed. It's a real shame. Never mind.
Forget it. Look at the situation in the UK, if you are stuck at one of the turbo prop operators over here like Flybe, Eastern, Loganair etc then you can forget going to EasyJet, Thomas Cook, Monarch, Thomson etc because of the mighty CTC.
Experience counts for nothing nowadays, the only way into a jet job over here is BA, or move to the Middle East. The natural career progression for TP pilots has been well and truly cut off and is not likely to change. There is Jet2, but if you're from the South then you have to be prepared to move North. There's some very good, and experienced TP pilots who will probably spend their careers flying TPs because they've had most avenues closed. It's a real shame. Never mind.
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Ahhh but then arrives some jets! Then jet time and a whole lot of demand and extremely competitive pay starts to pull people to the middle east and asia. Where do the pilots come from then for Easy etc?
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bigjarv
I'm on a real downer about the whole thing at the moment. Will it change though? When (if) the economic good times come back will it mean movement at the bottom of the industry? How will this happen? The preferred method of recruitment at the moment is low houred cadets, but as long as these are plentiful in numbers why would airlines want to take experience? Every month more and more are being churned out by the CTC sausage factory, I can't see the demand getting anywhere near it was in 2006/2007 to warrant a change in recruiting policies because I think there's still alot of consolidation to be seen yet within the UK and Europe due to the ever rising cost of fuel, let alone the economy. Those in the bottom end jobs had better get used to the seats they are sitting in, because unless you go to BA or the Middle East I cannot see any way out. I guess I'd love for a few people to "put a reassuring hand on my shoulder" to convince me otherwise, but career progression is dead in the water.
I'm on a real downer about the whole thing at the moment. Will it change though? When (if) the economic good times come back will it mean movement at the bottom of the industry? How will this happen? The preferred method of recruitment at the moment is low houred cadets, but as long as these are plentiful in numbers why would airlines want to take experience? Every month more and more are being churned out by the CTC sausage factory, I can't see the demand getting anywhere near it was in 2006/2007 to warrant a change in recruiting policies because I think there's still alot of consolidation to be seen yet within the UK and Europe due to the ever rising cost of fuel, let alone the economy. Those in the bottom end jobs had better get used to the seats they are sitting in, because unless you go to BA or the Middle East I cannot see any way out. I guess I'd love for a few people to "put a reassuring hand on my shoulder" to convince me otherwise, but career progression is dead in the water.
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I agree and feel your pain as well!! But there are some good trends the other way too. You just have to look for them. BA merger with BMI is very good for UK aviation, jobs and so movement etc. While airlines in the middle east & asia are taking only jet hours (and in HUGE quantities for the foreseeable future), well then only the likes of Easy and Ryan drivers can apply from the UK. As far as that goes they are the bottom of the food chain. Just depends how quick people will leave and they will leave for the money and the career. If they go quick then there is a gap that cannot necessarily be filled by only cadets and so the cycle starts. The economy has not properly got back on its feet yet and that is the cycle we are all waiting for. It will for sure come.
Other things are interesting like training is being re thought. Lots of research going into experience levels and accidents and alt busts etc. What I'm saying is there is a chance that experience will be worth something again soon in my opinion. Will perhaps be lead/enforced by people other than accountants (CAA or insurance companies).
As I said, aviation has always gone round in cycles and is directly linked to the economy so things will change, they always do! The biggest problem is having patience. That is my problem at the moment.
And finally, remember life is everything and a job just pays the bills to facilitate your life! Concentrate on life and let that lead your career not the other way round. It's only an aeroplane!!
Other things are interesting like training is being re thought. Lots of research going into experience levels and accidents and alt busts etc. What I'm saying is there is a chance that experience will be worth something again soon in my opinion. Will perhaps be lead/enforced by people other than accountants (CAA or insurance companies).
As I said, aviation has always gone round in cycles and is directly linked to the economy so things will change, they always do! The biggest problem is having patience. That is my problem at the moment.
And finally, remember life is everything and a job just pays the bills to facilitate your life! Concentrate on life and let that lead your career not the other way round. It's only an aeroplane!!
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The current TCX Scheme has Cadets working on TP's for a year(or more) before coming onto the TCX jet fleet. The UK industry is beginning to see flight safety issues with too many FO's with too little experience being rostered with Capt's with only a little more or with Capt's that are not of a high calibre themselves.
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Move! Don't sit around grumbling that the job isn't coming to you. If you can't face the ME, then move north for Jet2. It's a lot closer to home and cheaper than down sarf. If your family setup seems too difficult to move because they're settled, then enjoy the fact you've got a flying career exactly where you want to live, because boys and girls, that's pretty rare.
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Patience is a virtue, but she won't always wait.........
Well said Calmcavok!
Thankfully things are moving regards an over reliance on cadet schemes by LoCos. It may start in the USA (121FAR 1500h rule) and Australia (grounding of Tiger last year for 6 weeks) but it will impact the UK eventually especially now the CAA is looking into the recent claims made in CHIRP.
In the meantime keep praying and singing "always look on the bright side of life!"
Thankfully things are moving regards an over reliance on cadet schemes by LoCos. It may start in the USA (121FAR 1500h rule) and Australia (grounding of Tiger last year for 6 weeks) but it will impact the UK eventually especially now the CAA is looking into the recent claims made in CHIRP.
In the meantime keep praying and singing "always look on the bright side of life!"
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Originally Posted by Calmcavok
Move! Don't sit around grumbling that the job isn't coming to you. If you can't face the ME, then move north for Jet2.
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Artic Monkey,
Not 100% true what you say. Monarch is actually hiring a mixture of CTC and type-rated (A320/B757) pilots this year. They are taking on several pilots from Astraeus and Thomas Cook.
Not 100% true what you say. Monarch is actually hiring a mixture of CTC and type-rated (A320/B757) pilots this year. They are taking on several pilots from Astraeus and Thomas Cook.
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Arctic Monkey
I have flown with ex-TP drivers at Jet2 who were bonded for the type rating and are on a 100% contract. Further more, all of last year's 70%ers are now 100%. And since when is a 737 rating obsolete?
Jet2 may be worth another look - they are currently the only UK based operator I know of offering the TP-Jet "upgrade". The door is currently open, but for how much longer?
I have flown with ex-TP drivers at Jet2 who were bonded for the type rating and are on a 100% contract. Further more, all of last year's 70%ers are now 100%. And since when is a 737 rating obsolete?
Jet2 may be worth another look - they are currently the only UK based operator I know of offering the TP-Jet "upgrade". The door is currently open, but for how much longer?
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Flying Torquewrench
Well it kind of is correct, I am talking about career progression, not a step sideways. I do not possess a 320 TR so the door is still closed at Monarch for the likes of myself and others, I am flying TPs around the UK & Europe so I can't a) afford a 320 TR, or b) afford the time off to do a 320 TR. Career progression for us is dead.
Artie
When J2 phoned me up a year ago they offered me the 757, a 70% contract, pay for my own TR and don't get paid until I start online from final line check, a serious amount of cash for me to outlay and go without. I haven't looked at them since because of this but it might be worth another shot if they are offering bonds etc.
737 classic TR? will NG operators employ you on the back of a 73 classic rating? I don't know. All I know is the 757/737 classic is a dying breed in the UK.
Well it kind of is correct, I am talking about career progression, not a step sideways. I do not possess a 320 TR so the door is still closed at Monarch for the likes of myself and others, I am flying TPs around the UK & Europe so I can't a) afford a 320 TR, or b) afford the time off to do a 320 TR. Career progression for us is dead.
Artie
When J2 phoned me up a year ago they offered me the 757, a 70% contract, pay for my own TR and don't get paid until I start online from final line check, a serious amount of cash for me to outlay and go without. I haven't looked at them since because of this but it might be worth another shot if they are offering bonds etc.
737 classic TR? will NG operators employ you on the back of a 73 classic rating? I don't know. All I know is the 757/737 classic is a dying breed in the UK.
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The 75 rating is currently highly prized (check out how few 75/76 drivers are out of work at the moment).
The 73 rating is 300 - 900 and Jet2 has said its going to run the NG/Classics as a dual fleet and convert all crew. Differences course for all next winter apparently.
A huge number of ex-Jet2 peeps have proved both 75 and 73 ratings have opened doors both at home and abroad. I'm not a one man Jet2 recruitment show, just pointing out it is viable route from TP to Jet. Not great, but viable.
The 73 rating is 300 - 900 and Jet2 has said its going to run the NG/Classics as a dual fleet and convert all crew. Differences course for all next winter apparently.
A huge number of ex-Jet2 peeps have proved both 75 and 73 ratings have opened doors both at home and abroad. I'm not a one man Jet2 recruitment show, just pointing out it is viable route from TP to Jet. Not great, but viable.