Turboprop command or jet F/O
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Griasde BB
The Jet counts not the TP. For your total time you add the DH4 time. I flew in the early 90īs as well ERF-AGB-MUC-CGN-THF-RTM-VIE-BLQ-STR and so on. I took the Command and when the company went bust in early 96 I had nothing then TP time. I left the Country towards the sandpit and even we had Glas-type Instruments in the brand new TPīs back "home" nobody was looking at our CVīs seriously as there was no Jettime. We where lucky that the company internaly upgraded us from the TP to the Jetīs when they got some. After one year on the Jet invitations came more frequently in the late 90īs and I ended up in a B737 operation, thereafter it was in 2004 in B777.
As advised before: Take the Jet and who knows what game is played with IQ one day. Look what happens to C3, after the Summer it is almost over.
It is not selfish if you think for yourself: It is your career and your future. Nobody on the market gives a sh..t about you if you are out of a job. As online applications become more and more common it is difficult to draw attention to the individual. You need to fill into the requirements and that includes Jettime to get invitet to proove yourself. Later they are happy that you learned real flying and not only stick-moving and push-button SOPīs.
As advised before: Take the Jet and who knows what game is played with IQ one day. Look what happens to C3, after the Summer it is almost over.
It is not selfish if you think for yourself: It is your career and your future. Nobody on the market gives a sh..t about you if you are out of a job. As online applications become more and more common it is difficult to draw attention to the individual. You need to fill into the requirements and that includes Jettime to get invitet to proove yourself. Later they are happy that you learned real flying and not only stick-moving and push-button SOPīs.
Join Date: Apr 2011
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Its all about job security
What you have to ask yourself is this. If your company goes bust, where you going to go. With TP command hours ? With Jet FO hours ? Which would make it easier for you to get another job ?
It also depends on what you want to do in life. Fly a TP for the rest of it ? Nothing wrong with that, but you have to think that you may have 30 years work ahead of you and although you may be happy working where you are now, where do you go if and when they go bust or you lose your job.
Some advice for you, but this is my own opinion. Get the jet time, go to Emirates, get a rating that will keep you in a job for life and then after a few years in the middle east, if you're not happy move on. Simple.
BA do not give a **** if you have command on a turbo prop. The last lots of advertisements from BA wanted you to have jet time over 50 tonnes or be rated on an aircraft they operate.
In the UK, you having TP time means nothing. easyJet, Monarch, Thomas Cook, BA, Thomson will look at those who have jet hours before TP command and Ryanair will never take anyone but a pay as you go as long as there is pay as you go's willing to do it which is good if its your first job.
I would say, get the jet time, get to Emirates after you have 2000 hours jet or Qatar after you have 1000 hours jet and then get a type rating that will give you a long lasting career.
Take the TP command and be a TP pilot for a long time ?
What you have to ask yourself is this. If your company goes bust, where you going to go. With TP command hours ? With Jet FO hours ? Which would make it easier for you to get another job ?
It also depends on what you want to do in life. Fly a TP for the rest of it ? Nothing wrong with that, but you have to think that you may have 30 years work ahead of you and although you may be happy working where you are now, where do you go if and when they go bust or you lose your job.
Some advice for you, but this is my own opinion. Get the jet time, go to Emirates, get a rating that will keep you in a job for life and then after a few years in the middle east, if you're not happy move on. Simple.
BA do not give a **** if you have command on a turbo prop. The last lots of advertisements from BA wanted you to have jet time over 50 tonnes or be rated on an aircraft they operate.
In the UK, you having TP time means nothing. easyJet, Monarch, Thomas Cook, BA, Thomson will look at those who have jet hours before TP command and Ryanair will never take anyone but a pay as you go as long as there is pay as you go's willing to do it which is good if its your first job.
I would say, get the jet time, get to Emirates after you have 2000 hours jet or Qatar after you have 1000 hours jet and then get a type rating that will give you a long lasting career.
Take the TP command and be a TP pilot for a long time ?
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Unless you plan to get a useful type (like a 747 or 777, not an embraer)
Any jet > 55t will be just fine for your CV.
For the time being, go to any jet.
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Who said long lasting career in Qatar, I didn't. Get jet time, get a job in Emirates or Qatar, get a rating and time on a large jet, then after a couple of years leave if you wish. Use them as they use you. Get the rating, get the hours and then move on if you can't hack it out in the Middle East.
Your point is ? Nobody is stopping them leaving ? And why can't they return ?
My point is this, Command on a TP is not going to give you a long lasting career, because if and when the company you're working for tells you you're no longer required, chances of getting another job is a lot slimmer than it would be if you're flying a 195
And you're correct, no one wants to live in the sand pit, but a job is a job. You tell me where there is a better job please, post a link for it.
These airlines currently have stacks of people trying to get back home who can't
My point is this, Command on a TP is not going to give you a long lasting career, because if and when the company you're working for tells you you're no longer required, chances of getting another job is a lot slimmer than it would be if you're flying a 195
And you're correct, no one wants to live in the sand pit, but a job is a job. You tell me where there is a better job please, post a link for it.
Last edited by Black Pudding; 1st Feb 2012 at 11:20.
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What he s trying to say is that you can go nowhere with a 777 rating and 3-4-5000 hrs on it!
most of the companies require A320 time (sometimes 737). So any 747 777 340 time will be of no use realistically.
most of the companies require A320 time (sometimes 737). So any 747 777 340 time will be of no use realistically.
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I would not go as far as to say I like it. I hate the driving. The place is ok and safe. The job is ok but hard work. Its a job and they pay on time every month and no chance or being made redundant.
Back to topic. TP command or 195 jet, it all depends on what you want to be doing in 10 years time. More chance of getting a larger jet job from a 195 than a TP
Back to topic. TP command or 195 jet, it all depends on what you want to be doing in 10 years time. More chance of getting a larger jet job from a 195 than a TP
Join Date: May 2008
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Take the 195.
Dash 8 Command time and 195 FO time are equally as useless!
But on the 195 you wont go deaf and you wont be tired.
If after a few years you still enjoy being on the jungle jet, then stay on it for 2000hrs and then go to emirates.
If you need the extra cash, move back to the Dash as a Captain then stay on it until Easyjet, Thompson, Thomas Cook, Monarch etc. open DEC's again, or emirates start to recognise TP command time, or retire, which ever comes first!
Can you tell I am a frustrated TP driver?
Dash 8 Command time and 195 FO time are equally as useless!
But on the 195 you wont go deaf and you wont be tired.
If after a few years you still enjoy being on the jungle jet, then stay on it for 2000hrs and then go to emirates.
If you need the extra cash, move back to the Dash as a Captain then stay on it until Easyjet, Thompson, Thomas Cook, Monarch etc. open DEC's again, or emirates start to recognise TP command time, or retire, which ever comes first!
Can you tell I am a frustrated TP driver?
The fact is, whether anyone likes it or not, some employers simply don't count TP time as valuable. I'm not saying that is fair or correct but that it is how a lot of companies operate.
Command time, for the big companies, is pretty well meaningless too. Why? Because you will spend a good few years in the rhs and so they will have a very good idea of what you are like before, hopefully, you get a promotion. I was given this advice by an ex Brittania Captain in my first job and I think it still holds true.
The other good advice I was given always get the biggest shiniest type rating you can. You can trade down later if that is what you want to do.
I'm not saying the "never turn down a command" is bad advice but here I think it's on dodgy ground.
Command time, for the big companies, is pretty well meaningless too. Why? Because you will spend a good few years in the rhs and so they will have a very good idea of what you are like before, hopefully, you get a promotion. I was given this advice by an ex Brittania Captain in my first job and I think it still holds true.
The other good advice I was given always get the biggest shiniest type rating you can. You can trade down later if that is what you want to do.
I'm not saying the "never turn down a command" is bad advice but here I think it's on dodgy ground.
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FR8R
This would have been good advice 12 years ago but the game has changed and when it come to upgrade time and you are up against the CTC guy with 4000hrs on A32x, your command time will count for very little, unless its a tie-break situation. Sorry, but its a sad fact. Shiny Jet Syndrome, tch! that'll be the day!
This would have been good advice 12 years ago but the game has changed and when it come to upgrade time and you are up against the CTC guy with 4000hrs on A32x, your command time will count for very little, unless its a tie-break situation. Sorry, but its a sad fact. Shiny Jet Syndrome, tch! that'll be the day!
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As you see from the split opinion, there is no correct answer, it is neither A , nor B, it is (as always) C
C = what do you fancy /what rocks your boat.
Finally, pro's & con's to both (as proven by the "ask the public" response,) so finally, your choice.
Speaking personally, I loved, really loved, my 1st jet (DC9) nothing to beat that ethereal silence, both during take-off , & at high altitude. . .and the views
but conversely,I would have no problems going back onto a Q400 if it got me a job where I wanted, with the company I wanted (strangely enough I HAVE pondered that particular option) even after 24 yrs of hairdryers. However, I appreciate it is easier to let something go after having sated oneself , than to not want it.
Then again, you are talking what is best career wise, not dewey eyed reminiscences, so, maybe it is also irrelevant
That
What I WOULD have problems with, is jumping back into the RHS, even if you offered me Concorde (OK, for that one I might have managed)
It is a cliche, but it is also entirely true, that sitting in the LHS changes so many things (mostly for the better) in this job we do.
You, and you alone set the mood for the day, if you are RHS with an imbecile, or a nasty piece of works in the LHS, the day is screwed. Yes, it is a good learning experience, but you won't go home singing in the car (actually you might, out of relief it is over )
I have never yet, had someone in the RHS ruin my day, I have sometimes been frustrated, sometimes been angry, but never ever had a complete 4 sector day fecked by having a pr1ck in the RHS.
That is worth a lot. IMHO
There is no right or wrong answer, do as your heart beckons, because your head has a 50/50 chance to get it right. . or wrong.
C = what do you fancy /what rocks your boat.
Finally, pro's & con's to both (as proven by the "ask the public" response,) so finally, your choice.
Speaking personally, I loved, really loved, my 1st jet (DC9) nothing to beat that ethereal silence, both during take-off , & at high altitude. . .and the views
but conversely,I would have no problems going back onto a Q400 if it got me a job where I wanted, with the company I wanted (strangely enough I HAVE pondered that particular option) even after 24 yrs of hairdryers. However, I appreciate it is easier to let something go after having sated oneself , than to not want it.Then again, you are talking what is best career wise, not dewey eyed reminiscences, so, maybe it is also irrelevant
That
What I WOULD have problems with, is jumping back into the RHS, even if you offered me Concorde (OK, for that one I might have managed)
It is a cliche, but it is also entirely true, that sitting in the LHS changes so many things (mostly for the better) in this job we do.
You, and you alone set the mood for the day, if you are RHS with an imbecile, or a nasty piece of works in the LHS, the day is screwed. Yes, it is a good learning experience, but you won't go home singing in the car (actually you might, out of relief it is over )
I have never yet, had someone in the RHS ruin my day, I have sometimes been frustrated, sometimes been angry, but never ever had a complete 4 sector day fecked by having a pr1ck in the RHS.
That is worth a lot. IMHO
There is no right or wrong answer, do as your heart beckons, because your head has a 50/50 chance to get it right. . or wrong.
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Best response yet CPS
Option C every time and when life changes come along be prepared to roll with the punches. Priorities vary with age, beliefs, family, health, finances and what you enjoy doing. Enjoy whichever road you choose.
Option C every time and when life changes come along be prepared to roll with the punches. Priorities vary with age, beliefs, family, health, finances and what you enjoy doing. Enjoy whichever road you choose.
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captplaystation-very good summary why is it better to be a captain..simply very well said..same feelings here.
It takes some time and maybe years when we look back and see if a decision was good or bad.
To be a q400 capt at the age of 29 is not bad at all. I don't think there's a huge difference in terms of work when we compare a q400 copilot's job to an Embraer copilot's job. The difference starts when you compare long haul flying to any of these. Totally different lifestyle..now that's a difference. Not the propeller!
Jet hours are jet hours of course..this can be a good opportunity to see that kind of operation too..but don' expect too much difference. Maybe you are lucky and go for the Embraer now and within one or two years you can go back to the q400 LHS. Why not?
It takes some time and maybe years when we look back and see if a decision was good or bad.
To be a q400 capt at the age of 29 is not bad at all. I don't think there's a huge difference in terms of work when we compare a q400 copilot's job to an Embraer copilot's job. The difference starts when you compare long haul flying to any of these. Totally different lifestyle..now that's a difference. Not the propeller
!Jet hours are jet hours of course..this can be a good opportunity to see that kind of operation too..but don' expect too much difference. Maybe you are lucky and go for the Embraer now and within one or two years you can go back to the q400 LHS. Why not
?
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Will jump on the jet band wagon. 10 years ago perhaps the TP command would not do any harm. A bit of fun before you went on to progress your career. Not just fun but amazing experience. Experience which counted for something as you moved on.
Sadly now TP command seems to count for nothing. As expressed above the 195 is a very limited market but its still the fabled narnia of a jet so go see what you think. You'll regret it if you don't. And at least it's not as limited as a q400!
Sadly now TP command seems to count for nothing. As expressed above the 195 is a very limited market but its still the fabled narnia of a jet so go see what you think. You'll regret it if you don't. And at least it's not as limited as a q400!
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I think we have established a couple of things here.
1. I am a dinosaur from an era when command was important and coveted.
2. Being in command with an idiot in the other seat is infinitely better than the opposite arrangement.
3. Getting command before 30 is nothing to discount. More time in the right seat can lead to right seat apathy and possibly cause an extended period in said seat. How many years to upgrade in the jungle jet?
4. It should be watever lifestyle suits you best, not what type you fly. If turboprops offered me the pay i make now, i would be there tomorrow.
5. You will not go deaf in a Q400 (unless the noise cancelling thing is on MEL) and you are flying the best non-second-world-war-fighter aircraft to ever have two props on the wing.
My money still says take the left seat if you like your company and are not in any hurry to move on. Otherwise, it makes no difference what you do.
Cheers.
Hater
1. I am a dinosaur from an era when command was important and coveted.
2. Being in command with an idiot in the other seat is infinitely better than the opposite arrangement.
3. Getting command before 30 is nothing to discount. More time in the right seat can lead to right seat apathy and possibly cause an extended period in said seat. How many years to upgrade in the jungle jet?
4. It should be watever lifestyle suits you best, not what type you fly. If turboprops offered me the pay i make now, i would be there tomorrow.
5. You will not go deaf in a Q400 (unless the noise cancelling thing is on MEL) and you are flying the best non-second-world-war-fighter aircraft to ever have two props on the wing.
My money still says take the left seat if you like your company and are not in any hurry to move on. Otherwise, it makes no difference what you do.
Cheers.
Hater
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All the above is correct depending on your standpoint and LS is better than RS, but we are talking about a career and income here, and when you finally have to leave the LS (TP or babyJet) to join a bigger (possibly more secure) airline, you are going back into that RS potentially for a very long time. Is it 'better to have loved and lost.....' as they say? I do know quite a few SFO's who have had commands before who are deeply resentful of the fact they now languish in the RS due to the recession. Those that have only known the RS have less to grumble about, but at least we are very well paid in our RS's and slowly but surely getting towards a command and some serious money. And yes I know money is not everything, but its pretty useful when you have a wife, kids and school fees to pay for.
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For a whole variety of reasons, the best decision I ever made was to take a turbo-prop command. The transition from LHS turboprop to LHS jet was simple. And that was because of the previous command experience. And as Cap'n PS has pointed out, you make each day your own. You set the mood and tone of the day and with only a small amount of effort your crew and yourself can have a really good day at work. Amongst the people I work with there are probably only two or three names amongst the 140 or so I'd prefer not to fly with. Enjoying your day at work is priceless.
Shiny jets are only bits of equipment. The same Mk.I knob can be installed in any seat. But if you are sitting the LHS you can (or rather should) control the day, but it is a lot more difficult from to do so from the right.
Obviously there are lots people who have jumped at the right time and end up ahead of former colleagues but I'm sure that their are also many people like myself who have benefitted over senior colleagues by taking "a crappy turboprop" command.
To close, I'll have to quote a former training captain who I greatly respect, a guy called Dave Fisher. He said "You never turn down the chance of a command". And with hindsight, he was right. I'd certainly feel a lot more vulnerable being in the RHS in a jet during a recession than I would in the LHS of a turboprop.
Shiny jets are only bits of equipment. The same Mk.I knob can be installed in any seat. But if you are sitting the LHS you can (or rather should) control the day, but it is a lot more difficult from to do so from the right.
Obviously there are lots people who have jumped at the right time and end up ahead of former colleagues but I'm sure that their are also many people like myself who have benefitted over senior colleagues by taking "a crappy turboprop" command.
To close, I'll have to quote a former training captain who I greatly respect, a guy called Dave Fisher. He said "You never turn down the chance of a command". And with hindsight, he was right. I'd certainly feel a lot more vulnerable being in the RHS in a jet during a recession than I would in the LHS of a turboprop.