Emirates - not the answer!
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Emirates - not the answer!
Fancy joining EK? These are the facts on just some of the current problems:
1) Rostering - The normal computerized system which allocates your roster is now being done manually as major pilot shortages do not allow for the program to complete the process. This is resulting in significant numbers of pilots on top bids getting none of their flights. Instead you are being given the opposite - high amount of night turnarounds or 5-7 day trips away from home.
2) Annual Leave - There is NO annual leave available for the next 4 months. There are a very large number of pilots who still have leave to take - above the 15 days that can be rolled over. Forget what your contract says. Ops and Fleet have said that all leave will need to be rolled over to next year as there are no days available for forced leave either. Warnings are being heard from rostering and the planners about next years leave being tougher to get, which means the days rolled over will most likely not be honored. Don't forget that if you join EK you are banned from taking leave for the first 6 months!
3) Training - Poor standardization, poor levels of trainers being attracted due to very few applications to join the training department. When asked about this situation Capt AS suggested crews should return to their old companies if they don't like it! This is being combined with current trainers being heavily over worked resulting in many long term and respected trainers resigning. Type Ratings have been outsourced. CU's are fluctuating with many students very unhappy with the courses as no training is actually being undertaken.
4) Travel - flights to and from many destinations are consistently over booked so flights home on staff travel are not listed for use by crew and their families. Returning home has become very difficult on staff travel.
5) Pay - the target for this years results is incredibly high considering the world market. No profit share is expected, in turn with no pay rise. The earliest would be mid 2013. Even with pilot shortages widely reported EK will not adjust pay for new joiners, current crew and the training department. The DVP's do enjoy fat bonuses though!
6) Accommodation - the responsible department is incredibly unhelpful and many times rude to both new joiners and long term staff. The department staff are quick to file reports against you if they feel you are being pushy. The attitude is very much of tough luck and if you opt out of company accommodation then notification and conclusion of your stay is generally very short notice. As no leave is available this has resulted in high costs and hassle for crews which is not recoverable from the company.
7) Company Ethos - Both pilots and CC live under a fear of consistently being reported and face company action. This is resulting in crews not filling reports on incidents or filling reports for everything to try and cover themselves. Safety and efficiency is talked about, but the working environment is the far opposite. Any problems taken to management are pushed under the rug as even the managers are fearful of being seen to be out of touch and lacking control of their department. Safety is an issue!
8) No union - EK does not have a union and it does not look like it will. There are many crews talking about something similar which is hopeful, yet with senior management telling pilots to leave if they complain it will take something substantial for any change.
Again EK is not the answer!!
There are no DEC and it looks as if that will not change. The significant grief and unrest caused by the last DEC intake would mean the atmosphere in EK would get worse if the decision changed. The company portrays happiness and growth, but the expansion to too rapid and the crews are feeling it with no support from the management. This is evident with the A330/40 fleet and the B777 fleet flying 95hrs per month on night turn arounds or with minimum rest in between flights. Be aware that the FAA are in discussion with the EK over concerns about minimum rest periods on flights to the USA.
Divorce - it is well known that EK has one of the highest divorce rates amongst any other airline in the world. The Middle East is not as joyous as the recruitment wagon portrays and with crews away from home and fatigue on the increase the family suffers the most.
Ask the questions to the EK wagon but do not be surprised if the questions are shrugged off. They have targets to hit. Asking recruitment is not the answer as apparently most of the department do not operate the line or are guys on sick leave and are trying to hold on to their jobs.
I say again these are the facts as I have found in the 26 months I have been with EK. If you do join - then beware. You thought life in your old company was poor, wait till you come to the dessert!
1) Rostering - The normal computerized system which allocates your roster is now being done manually as major pilot shortages do not allow for the program to complete the process. This is resulting in significant numbers of pilots on top bids getting none of their flights. Instead you are being given the opposite - high amount of night turnarounds or 5-7 day trips away from home.
2) Annual Leave - There is NO annual leave available for the next 4 months. There are a very large number of pilots who still have leave to take - above the 15 days that can be rolled over. Forget what your contract says. Ops and Fleet have said that all leave will need to be rolled over to next year as there are no days available for forced leave either. Warnings are being heard from rostering and the planners about next years leave being tougher to get, which means the days rolled over will most likely not be honored. Don't forget that if you join EK you are banned from taking leave for the first 6 months!
3) Training - Poor standardization, poor levels of trainers being attracted due to very few applications to join the training department. When asked about this situation Capt AS suggested crews should return to their old companies if they don't like it! This is being combined with current trainers being heavily over worked resulting in many long term and respected trainers resigning. Type Ratings have been outsourced. CU's are fluctuating with many students very unhappy with the courses as no training is actually being undertaken.
4) Travel - flights to and from many destinations are consistently over booked so flights home on staff travel are not listed for use by crew and their families. Returning home has become very difficult on staff travel.
5) Pay - the target for this years results is incredibly high considering the world market. No profit share is expected, in turn with no pay rise. The earliest would be mid 2013. Even with pilot shortages widely reported EK will not adjust pay for new joiners, current crew and the training department. The DVP's do enjoy fat bonuses though!
6) Accommodation - the responsible department is incredibly unhelpful and many times rude to both new joiners and long term staff. The department staff are quick to file reports against you if they feel you are being pushy. The attitude is very much of tough luck and if you opt out of company accommodation then notification and conclusion of your stay is generally very short notice. As no leave is available this has resulted in high costs and hassle for crews which is not recoverable from the company.
7) Company Ethos - Both pilots and CC live under a fear of consistently being reported and face company action. This is resulting in crews not filling reports on incidents or filling reports for everything to try and cover themselves. Safety and efficiency is talked about, but the working environment is the far opposite. Any problems taken to management are pushed under the rug as even the managers are fearful of being seen to be out of touch and lacking control of their department. Safety is an issue!
8) No union - EK does not have a union and it does not look like it will. There are many crews talking about something similar which is hopeful, yet with senior management telling pilots to leave if they complain it will take something substantial for any change.
Again EK is not the answer!!
There are no DEC and it looks as if that will not change. The significant grief and unrest caused by the last DEC intake would mean the atmosphere in EK would get worse if the decision changed. The company portrays happiness and growth, but the expansion to too rapid and the crews are feeling it with no support from the management. This is evident with the A330/40 fleet and the B777 fleet flying 95hrs per month on night turn arounds or with minimum rest in between flights. Be aware that the FAA are in discussion with the EK over concerns about minimum rest periods on flights to the USA.
Divorce - it is well known that EK has one of the highest divorce rates amongst any other airline in the world. The Middle East is not as joyous as the recruitment wagon portrays and with crews away from home and fatigue on the increase the family suffers the most.
Ask the questions to the EK wagon but do not be surprised if the questions are shrugged off. They have targets to hit. Asking recruitment is not the answer as apparently most of the department do not operate the line or are guys on sick leave and are trying to hold on to their jobs.
I say again these are the facts as I have found in the 26 months I have been with EK. If you do join - then beware. You thought life in your old company was poor, wait till you come to the dessert!
.
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I'm surprised to hear this, as will sum of my ex FR colleagues! All of the above sounds just like Ryanair, but without the sand. 
So the grass isn't always greener...but the sh#t is always brown!
Ho hum....
So the grass isn't always greener...but the sh#t is always brown!
Ho hum....
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Departing - I have applied for other carriers and thankfully have interviews lined up. A few of my old class mates from my TR were exRyanair and have made similar comments about EK being the long haul version of Ryanair! 
I was going to stay till command but the CU seems to be longer than promised, and with things the way they are pre & post training it's not worth it!
These are only just SOME of the problems at EK!
Simply put, you have been warned!
I was going to stay till command but the CU seems to be longer than promised, and with things the way they are pre & post training it's not worth it!
These are only just SOME of the problems at EK!
Simply put, you have been warned!
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Middle East
I'm surprised to hear this, as will sum of my ex FR colleagues! All of the above sounds just like Ryanair, but without the sand. 
(look here for the discussion about "exit permits" in Qatar) It's typical that the people who choose to work for these kind of outfits (shiny jets & quick commands) always suddenly want to leave when they find out it's not as rosy as it was when they were wearing those rose tinted glasses searching for greener grass, and then make exactly the same mistakes when looking for the next airline to work for.
Generally speaking there's a price to pay for those 'quick upgrades on bling bling shiny jets.' Here's a summary;
*) megalomaniac CEO's
*) located in 3rd world countries with 3rd world labor laws (Ireland, UK, Qatar, UAE etc), which leads to...
*) no or powerless unions, leading to...
*) no or a very limited seniority system, which leads to...
*) a culture of snitching and @ss kissing in order to...
*) divide and conquer and instill fear so that...
*) management can dictate whatever they want and...
*) push the envelop on fatigue and generally lower T&C's in the industry, leading to...
Have fun guys!
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The 'no union' argument is on its way out. In effect, only BA have a pilot's union in the UK. And even that will change, now that Willie has sampled the ingrained '(ex) nationalised industry' culture, courtesy the cabin crew.
Face it, in a few years, nowhere will be 'safe'.
Face it, in a few years, nowhere will be 'safe'.
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Face it, in a few years, nowhere will be 'safe'.
The main question IMHO is where you want to be in a few years time: a) in Europe where you can still enjoy a few (alas less and less) civil liberties, or b) in a culturally and religiously different (hostile?) environment where you are nothing more than cheap imported labour without any rights.
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Oz 380.... is it a well known fact that EK is number one in Divorce?? Thats news to me. Actually I know more wifes that want to stay in Dubai than pilots... great girly lifestyle.
I wish you luck in your new job
I wish you luck in your new job
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EK London roadshows
There might be a "pilot shortage" at EK but when I sent an email to the recruitment email address given on their website to apply for a pre-selection interview in London......no response! Tried again....still nothing. I'm assuming they either fully booked, have no professional courtesy or....maybe it's just me!
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EK, the problem pilot creator
No thanks to EK; it hoisted a lot of undeserving wannabes up well above their stations onto the shiny new jets. These fellas then bailed out of the sandpit for KAL only to sell their 
EK practices to our bunch of dumbo management; now we do on-line computer courses on our own time, self study CDs and flash drives, etc. Damn; sell your practices elsewhere please!
EK practices to our bunch of dumbo management; now we do on-line computer courses on our own time, self study CDs and flash drives, etc. Damn; sell your practices elsewhere please!
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pilot shortage?!!! where?
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HAEJUNGKUK,
"These fellas then bailed out of the sandpit for KAL"
Please enlighten us with the number of EK pilots who arrived at KAL
I think I can count them on the number of 1 hand, maybe 2
Please lets keep it to the facts!
"These fellas then bailed out of the sandpit for KAL"
Please enlighten us with the number of EK pilots who arrived at KAL
I think I can count them on the number of 1 hand, maybe 2
Please lets keep it to the facts!
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desertdude...before you chide a guy, please for your own credibility, do your own homework. Those post icons ain't no cutey when you are dead wrong. You only make haejungkuk more credible when people find out that he is indeed right.
The last I counted, there were 12 ex-EKs on the 777 and 11 on the A330 in KAL. Much as I hate to agree with a local wonderboy, I think EK guys ingratiated themselves to the KAL management with suggestions of " super money saving " **** that have us all doing recurrent and other ground school stuff via computer on our own time!
Years ago, KAL expat pilots were asked to come out with money saving ideas; the same ideas brought by the EK guys were discussed amongst ourselves BUT WE NEVER THOUGHT TO GIVE KAL MANAGEMENT ANY IDEAS THAT ARE DETRIMENTAL TO PILOTS. Any ideas for cost savings which ended up screwing pilots' quality of life ( commuting contracts are pretty demanding on pilots' private life ) were a NO NO...........alas then came the frogg from the sandpit, and we were screwed big time!
The last I counted, there were 12 ex-EKs on the 777 and 11 on the A330 in KAL. Much as I hate to agree with a local wonderboy, I think EK guys ingratiated themselves to the KAL management with suggestions of " super money saving " **** that have us all doing recurrent and other ground school stuff via computer on our own time!
Years ago, KAL expat pilots were asked to come out with money saving ideas; the same ideas brought by the EK guys were discussed amongst ourselves BUT WE NEVER THOUGHT TO GIVE KAL MANAGEMENT ANY IDEAS THAT ARE DETRIMENTAL TO PILOTS. Any ideas for cost savings which ended up screwing pilots' quality of life ( commuting contracts are pretty demanding on pilots' private life ) were a NO NO...........alas then came the frogg from the sandpit, and we were screwed big time!