BA - lifestyle and work/life balance
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Money isn't everything and whilst a command would have been nice from that perspective, I don't think I could have done many more years of minimum-rest four sector earlies.
The biggest thing I wanted from moving to BA was not to be exhausted for 95% of the time. the food on-board is actually pretty good (a small point perhaps but when you are eating 50% of your food at work it can make a big difference). I feel like a human-being again and that is really priceless.
BA pre-allocated all my 2011 leave as we joined after the leave bidding window. I called rostering, expecting to be told to PFO. After about 30 seconds they had moved all my leave to my requested weeks with absolutely no questions asked. This experience alone should tell you all you need to know. At easyJet the only way to have achieved this would have been to buy 51% of the company's shares!
The flying at easy was hard work made bearable by some outstanding crews. That aspect of things is the same at BA but it is complemented by a far better work / life balance. I no longer fear being worked into an early grave!
I'm not looking back...
The biggest thing I wanted from moving to BA was not to be exhausted for 95% of the time. the food on-board is actually pretty good (a small point perhaps but when you are eating 50% of your food at work it can make a big difference). I feel like a human-being again and that is really priceless.
BA pre-allocated all my 2011 leave as we joined after the leave bidding window. I called rostering, expecting to be told to PFO. After about 30 seconds they had moved all my leave to my requested weeks with absolutely no questions asked. This experience alone should tell you all you need to know. At easyJet the only way to have achieved this would have been to buy 51% of the company's shares!
The flying at easy was hard work made bearable by some outstanding crews. That aspect of things is the same at BA but it is complemented by a far better work / life balance. I no longer fear being worked into an early grave!
I'm not looking back...
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Commuting to Heathrow....
Some very good info on this thread, and thanks to all that have contributed about the work/life balance with BA.
I have a question for current BA employees on the SH fleet. I am in the holding pool at the moment and I am guessing I'll be going on the Airbus fleet, how reasonable would it be to commute 1:30min to Heathrow? I know its probably possible and doable, but would it be a real struggle being junior in the company? Any info from anyone in a similar position would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks
YYZ
I have a question for current BA employees on the SH fleet. I am in the holding pool at the moment and I am guessing I'll be going on the Airbus fleet, how reasonable would it be to commute 1:30min to Heathrow? I know its probably possible and doable, but would it be a real struggle being junior in the company? Any info from anyone in a similar position would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks
YYZ
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easily doable, a few of the triplines have only 4 or 5 reports in a month, people I fly with commute from all over Europe, one from America and many from oop north! When on reserve you have to be within 2 hours drive. Although we work hard on the Airbus, I am yet to feel the utter exhaustion working for easyJet Gatwick.
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Like Gillespie, my duty hours were approx. 1450 in the last year, with a different company though. Only flew 550 hours though.
It might be higher in BA, but it's definitely a big investment for the future. BA pay starter FO's what my current airline pays CP's. It's a no brainer for me really.
It might be higher in BA, but it's definitely a big investment for the future. BA pay starter FO's what my current airline pays CP's. It's a no brainer for me really.
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BlackandBrown
Genuinely intrigued! Presumably then you can name a few UK airlines where the overall package of remuneration (or even just pay) is better than BA... 
Ba pay just above the average probably
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BlackandBrown
Not sure I've ever seen so much b@ll@cks contained in one thread. You my friend, are embarrasing yourself. By quoting headline figures you are showing a complete lack of understanding of where IAG are in their merger process and a lack of understanding of basic accounting.
If you think BA hire pilots on the back of a one time event covering a period of about 12 weeks you're dillusional.
As for your 'top European contract', it didn't look so good before the Euro collapse, and I dare say before the current crisis has run its course it won't look so good again.
There are so many factors you've glossed over I wouldn't know where to start.
Not sure I've ever seen so much b@ll@cks contained in one thread. You my friend, are embarrasing yourself. By quoting headline figures you are showing a complete lack of understanding of where IAG are in their merger process and a lack of understanding of basic accounting.
If you think BA hire pilots on the back of a one time event covering a period of about 12 weeks you're dillusional.
As for your 'top European contract', it didn't look so good before the Euro collapse, and I dare say before the current crisis has run its course it won't look so good again.
There are so many factors you've glossed over I wouldn't know where to start.
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Good old assumption. I am tired of the 'economists' on here shooting down others opinions which are branded as such based on their opinion which they garnered from the guardian and BBC news. Your ugly trait of thinking that you know is oxymoronic. Now don't come on here swearing under the disguise of symbols because someone doesn't share your, in my opinion, flawed judgement - 'it's embarrassing' is I believe what the cool pprune kids say to try and belittle others and remove their credibility. Only time will tell and it'll probably be anywhere in between our opinions.
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Mergers don't come cheap there is a cost in restructuring, it's basic economics.I wasn't ever offering any opinion or facts so I have no need to back anything up.
A quick check of your last 4 posts I found you commenting on:-
- Poor BA terms and conditions
- Poor Virgin terms and conditions
- Poor Cathay terms and conditions
- an incomprhensible description of Airbus stalling, which it turns out was totally incorrect*
*just for you as I know you don't like the word , but that post was.
I suggest you may have a few issues. The top Capt pay scale at BA tops out at £170,000 including allowances, trainers get more. It provides rock solid rosters, shiny new metal,a myriad of destinations, career progression, respect as a person blah, blah, blah... if you think that's poor you're probably on your own.
are you a teeny bit jelous of the legacy carriers per chance?
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BandB
To be fair, I'm only interested in salaries in the context of this discussion. I am a BA Airbus skipper, and forgive me for saying so, but I would consider moving to Easy as a retrograde step. We have had many new joiners from Easy recently, and it seems you also, would still like to come to BA...
As far as take home pay is concerned, of course a significant proportion of our pilots live abroad, and take advantage of the prevailing tax rates of their domicile, so it's very difficult to generalise what the 'take home pay' of a BA pilot would be. Though inevitably some will pay very little tax on a salary in excess of £200,000!
Those who remain in the UK presumably do so out of choice, and accepting the current tax regime.
As far as remuneration is concerned, might I suggest you may be making assumptions which aren't necessarily correct. For example, I have no idea what your loss of licence, pension, relocation allowances, training emoluments, etc are worth.
To be fair, I'm only interested in salaries in the context of this discussion. I am a BA Airbus skipper, and forgive me for saying so, but I would consider moving to Easy as a retrograde step. We have had many new joiners from Easy recently, and it seems you also, would still like to come to BA...
As far as take home pay is concerned, of course a significant proportion of our pilots live abroad, and take advantage of the prevailing tax rates of their domicile, so it's very difficult to generalise what the 'take home pay' of a BA pilot would be. Though inevitably some will pay very little tax on a salary in excess of £200,000!
Those who remain in the UK presumably do so out of choice, and accepting the current tax regime.
As far as remuneration is concerned, might I suggest you may be making assumptions which aren't necessarily correct. For example, I have no idea what your loss of licence, pension, relocation allowances, training emoluments, etc are worth.
Last edited by 4468; 7th Aug 2011 at 15:58.
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Look pal, we can all selectivley quote, if I could be asked to do it again I'd go back and find your posts but i can't.
I'm glad you're so happy in your job, why do you feel the need to comment so much on the T&C's of other airlines?
If I flew Airbus I'd know what you were talking about but I dont. Accepting you're wrong doesn't change the fact it's another example, randomly selected, of you talking garbage.
The Olympics didn't cause the proplems in Greece.
Loco's fly to many destinations. How many of the sights, sounds, food, and atmosphere of such places have you soaked up recently? Nope thought not.
Fixed roster's...Couldn't think of anything worse. Might as well join the 9-5 brigade.
Where did I say I hate the Eurozone?
BA have more 777-300's ariving next month, so no, I don't think Loco's kit is 'shinier' than Ba's.
How old is that last quote you've pulled up anyway? It's either very old or very misinformed.
Are you out of you're mind?
Actually don't bother answering, got to go pack. Got a five day Carribean tomorrow. I know its not everybodies thing but it is mine!
Hope your no on a 4 sector early
I'm glad you're so happy in your job, why do you feel the need to comment so much on the T&C's of other airlines?
If I flew Airbus I'd know what you were talking about but I dont. Accepting you're wrong doesn't change the fact it's another example, randomly selected, of you talking garbage.
The Olympics didn't cause the proplems in Greece.
Loco's fly to many destinations. How many of the sights, sounds, food, and atmosphere of such places have you soaked up recently? Nope thought not.
Fixed roster's...Couldn't think of anything worse. Might as well join the 9-5 brigade.
Where did I say I hate the Eurozone?
BA have more 777-300's ariving next month, so no, I don't think Loco's kit is 'shinier' than Ba's.
How old is that last quote you've pulled up anyway? It's either very old or very misinformed.
Ba pay just above the average probably
Actually don't bother answering, got to go pack. Got a five day Carribean tomorrow. I know its not everybodies thing but it is mine!
Hope your no on a 4 sector early
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The headline European salaries in eJ look good to your common or garden Ppruner because of the weakness of Sterling. These contracts were negotiated back in the good old days pre 2008 when the Euro was a lot lower against the Pound, and in order to get a fair comparison one needs to take into account the relevant country's cost of living AND what other airlines are paying in said country.
The easyJet Switzerland contract looks amazing because the Swiss Franc is continuing it's inexorable rise, and the income tax is so very low compared to the rest of Europe. If one looks at the historical of rate of Franc vs Pound, the EZS salary suddenly looks less appealing, although I'll be the first to admit we might get back to that rate for some time, if at all!
However the simple fact is that none of this has anything to do with the airline offering "great T & C's", it's purely incidental. Let's be honest, it's not as though the EZS management is some benign entity looking out for it's pilots is it?
And as for fixed pattern rosters, fairly sure it was still relatively unstable random rostering when I left 6 weeks ago
But I'm not trying to get into airline vs airline slating. I thoroughly enjoyed my time at EZY and EZS, I did a lot of interesting flying and in my view I earned my money; there's no denying it was hard work. Ultimately though it's all about what best fits an individual in terms of lifestyle and aspirations, there is no second to none golden chalice that everyone should aim for.
So far I've been pleased with the move, and having chatted with my fleet training manager it sounds like I've joined at a good time for seniority progression, although perhaps I'm going to lose my job when Seb Coe apparently bankrupts us all...?
The easyJet Switzerland contract looks amazing because the Swiss Franc is continuing it's inexorable rise, and the income tax is so very low compared to the rest of Europe. If one looks at the historical of rate of Franc vs Pound, the EZS salary suddenly looks less appealing, although I'll be the first to admit we might get back to that rate for some time, if at all!
However the simple fact is that none of this has anything to do with the airline offering "great T & C's", it's purely incidental. Let's be honest, it's not as though the EZS management is some benign entity looking out for it's pilots is it?
And as for fixed pattern rosters, fairly sure it was still relatively unstable random rostering when I left 6 weeks ago
But I'm not trying to get into airline vs airline slating. I thoroughly enjoyed my time at EZY and EZS, I did a lot of interesting flying and in my view I earned my money; there's no denying it was hard work. Ultimately though it's all about what best fits an individual in terms of lifestyle and aspirations, there is no second to none golden chalice that everyone should aim for.
So far I've been pleased with the move, and having chatted with my fleet training manager it sounds like I've joined at a good time for seniority progression, although perhaps I'm going to lose my job when Seb Coe apparently bankrupts us all...?
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c'mon dude we get your point, enough now.
you work for a good company, surely one of the best in continental europe, but to be honest with you it is not even comparable with BA.
it works well for you, and it s great, after all everyone has his own perspective. but it is undeniable that the career options, and the variety of types that BA gives you will be hard to get at the typical european low cost (not mentioning the money and benefits on the long run). Plus all the ex BA guys i met are fantastic instructors, so i am pretty sure it is a good environment to work in.
bottom line is, if you are british/live in the U.K. and reasonably young BA is the best job. full stop.
The only point i can give you is that not everyone is prepared to settle in the U.K. or live a long term commuter life, so other options might be better.
you work for a good company, surely one of the best in continental europe, but to be honest with you it is not even comparable with BA.
it works well for you, and it s great, after all everyone has his own perspective. but it is undeniable that the career options, and the variety of types that BA gives you will be hard to get at the typical european low cost (not mentioning the money and benefits on the long run). Plus all the ex BA guys i met are fantastic instructors, so i am pretty sure it is a good environment to work in.
bottom line is, if you are british/live in the U.K. and reasonably young BA is the best job. full stop.
The only point i can give you is that not everyone is prepared to settle in the U.K. or live a long term commuter life, so other options might be better.
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Just left easy on an old-style permanent ctc wings cadet contract. Net pay on a normal month was £3300 on a bad month and £3600 on a good month. That was including the tax break on the loan, student loan payments and 2% personal pension plan contribution. Net pay as a new joiner in BA has so far been equivalent (without the tax break on the loan but still paying off student loan @ £350 / month and with personal pension contribution at 7%). In my book that makes the BA package better. Don't even get me started on the Private Healthcare, LoL, etc.
Could have had a command at easy next year. Would still have moved.
B+B, good to see that you are still talking drivel. Please send me a PM if you ever make it into BA so I can ensure I never have to fly with you.
Could have had a command at easy next year. Would still have moved.
B+B, good to see that you are still talking drivel. Please send me a PM if you ever make it into BA so I can ensure I never have to fly with you.
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Craggenmore:
When do you think they will achieve democracy, or rights for foreign workers, in the Emirates... (If that's the comparison you are seeking to make)
I believe there are still some fairly draconian laws there that westerners frequently fall foul of...
What's the temperature there at the moment.
Don't get me wrong, I love Dubai. It's great to go there for a couple of days every few months.
Britain has been around in it's current form, pretty much since the days of Oliver Cromwell. How long have the Emirates been players on the world stage...
They sure better make the fragile business of tourism work, (in a highly unstable region!) because the oil isn't going to last forever!
Horses for courses I guess.
When do you think they will achieve democracy, or rights for foreign workers, in the Emirates... (If that's the comparison you are seeking to make)
I believe there are still some fairly draconian laws there that westerners frequently fall foul of...
What's the temperature there at the moment.
Don't get me wrong, I love Dubai. It's great to go there for a couple of days every few months.
Britain has been around in it's current form, pretty much since the days of Oliver Cromwell. How long have the Emirates been players on the world stage...
They sure better make the fragile business of tourism work, (in a highly unstable region!) because the oil isn't going to last forever!
Horses for courses I guess.
Craggenmore
Good rant.
Frankly, there are plenty of ways for BA crewmembers, from either side of the flight deck door, to avoid UK potholes, UK council tax, UK car insurance, UK utility bills, the M25, and the UK weather, and all the other little UK niggles you describe.......and yet still work for BA.
It just needs a little imagination, I'm sure you can work it out
Good rant.
Frankly, there are plenty of ways for BA crewmembers, from either side of the flight deck door, to avoid UK potholes, UK council tax, UK car insurance, UK utility bills, the M25, and the UK weather, and all the other little UK niggles you describe.......and yet still work for BA.
It just needs a little imagination, I'm sure you can work it out
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4468, you raised some vaild points.
Thanks for the web-site link FP..!
It was a good rant Wiggy but I deleted it for it had little to do with the BA work/life balance.
Perhaps another thread will allow me such guilty pleasures!
Thanks for the web-site link FP..!
It was a good rant Wiggy but I deleted it for it had little to do with the BA work/life balance.
Perhaps another thread will allow me such guilty pleasures!
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Craggenmore
No problem, and thank you for your pm.
I've always assumed that EK have to pay good money in order to keep people in the sandpit. Not because they are simply a generous employer!
For me, 40-50 degrees heat would be unsustainable for any period. I also love the seasons we have here. Being close to people I grew up with, and my family is priceless. Do it long enough, and long haul flying can feel a pretty lonely existence even at the best of times. (and even when surrounded by fun crew!) Feeling lonely at base too must make life difficult... Working for a respectful employer is a bonus, and having a union on my side, with rights enshrined in the law of the land, when things don't run smoothly is a massive comfort.
Great beer, brewed in the local brewery (Tom Woods - Fabulous!) tastes great in the beer garden this time of year, or in front of a log fire when it's cold outside. It's only £2.45 a pint!
I'm not a golfer I'm afraid, though I believe it's a good thing to do to pass the time on longhaul.
A take home pay of £9000 for your ex Mytravel captain doesn't sound as good as it used to be. (I guess T&Cs are on the slide there too! Do you negotiate changes with your employer as we do...) Particularly bearing in mind some of the very long two crew sectors EK fly. Nor would that sum be unusual for a fair number of our pilots, particularly so if they choose to live on the Isle of Man, or just across the channel.
But for me, working for somebody like EK wouldn't come down to money. There would just be too much I would miss. Money comes and goes. Time just goes!
As I said, horses for courses. Good that we are all happy with our lot, eh!
Enjoy
No problem, and thank you for your pm.
I've always assumed that EK have to pay good money in order to keep people in the sandpit. Not because they are simply a generous employer!
For me, 40-50 degrees heat would be unsustainable for any period. I also love the seasons we have here. Being close to people I grew up with, and my family is priceless. Do it long enough, and long haul flying can feel a pretty lonely existence even at the best of times. (and even when surrounded by fun crew!) Feeling lonely at base too must make life difficult... Working for a respectful employer is a bonus, and having a union on my side, with rights enshrined in the law of the land, when things don't run smoothly is a massive comfort.
Great beer, brewed in the local brewery (Tom Woods - Fabulous!) tastes great in the beer garden this time of year, or in front of a log fire when it's cold outside. It's only £2.45 a pint!
I'm not a golfer I'm afraid, though I believe it's a good thing to do to pass the time on longhaul.
A take home pay of £9000 for your ex Mytravel captain doesn't sound as good as it used to be. (I guess T&Cs are on the slide there too! Do you negotiate changes with your employer as we do...) Particularly bearing in mind some of the very long two crew sectors EK fly. Nor would that sum be unusual for a fair number of our pilots, particularly so if they choose to live on the Isle of Man, or just across the channel.
But for me, working for somebody like EK wouldn't come down to money. There would just be too much I would miss. Money comes and goes. Time just goes!
As I said, horses for courses. Good that we are all happy with our lot, eh!
Enjoy
Last edited by 4468; 8th Aug 2011 at 08:16.