Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Terms and Endearment
Reload this Page >

BA - lifestyle and work/life balance

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

BA - lifestyle and work/life balance

Old 18th Jul 2011, 08:53
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: london
Posts: 166
I'm a new joiner this year on the Airbus...

August roster has 13 days off with 7 nights away.
sharpclassic is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2011, 09:57
  #42 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 160
So in short, you can expect to fly 100 hours a year or so more at BA (longhaul) than at Virgin?
Assuming the number of training days etc is comparible, then to me that amounts to a more relaxed lifestyle at Virgin???
Full Left Rudder is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2011, 10:52
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Home of the Gnomes
Posts: 358
So in short, you can expect to fly 100 hours a year or so more at BA (longhaul) than at Virgin?
Assuming the number of training days etc is comparible, then to me that amounts to a more relaxed lifestyle at Virgin???
Part of my "relaxation" is knowing that my published roster is almost certainly what I will actually do. Not sure that's the case at VS.
Tay Cough is online now  
Old 18th Jul 2011, 10:57
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: A laser guided drone
Posts: 609
Part of my issue is exactly as blackandbrown said. BA is unquestionably the best out there, but how long it is likely to last. Is it a safe enough bet to bank on. I am not sure. How long until those perks start to get attacked? Without doubt though today it is as good as it gets.
blackred1443 is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2011, 11:36
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Home of the Gnomes
Posts: 358
How long until those perks start to get attacked?
They have always been under attack to some degree or other. There are a couple of significant issues being discussed between BA and BALPA at the moment.

The point is though that BA remains the benchmark for the UK. You can pretty much guarantee that if we lose a particular perk, it will go for the rest as well - be that pay or conditions.
Tay Cough is online now  
Old 18th Jul 2011, 12:27
  #46 (permalink)  
Está servira para distraerle.
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: In a perambulator.
Posts: 0
(So in short, you can expect to fly 100 hours a year or so more at BA (longhaul) than at Virgin?
Assuming the number of training days etc is comparible, then to me that amounts to a more relaxed lifestyle at Virgin???)

Back in February it was Thomas Cook you were thinking of joining? With a nod to that company, it's hardly a legacy carrier? Any feedback on that application process by the way, interview tips and so on? That concept having been changed, it's now BA or Virgin? So this would seem a hunt from airline to airline to see which one to think of joining that offers the most laid back life style. Perhaps a contributory pension scheme is a factor as well? But as for life style itself and all the pleasures and frustration that brings is concerned, isn't it all going to depend to a very large extent on the quality of the cabin crew of whichever airline one joins? I suppose it would be a useful trick at an interview, when asked why one had deigned to try to join the company, to be able to reply that reason is because your cabin crew are more gorgeous and congenial than the opposition's, but it's a tricky point to have to research. Perhaps one could start a thread up on the cabin crew forum asking for pointers as to which were the more useful bunch with whom to work.
Craggenmore made what I thought was a very good point. I've spent most of my flight time on short haul but often with three or four nightstops a week. Not a great flight life I know but there we are, didn't know it would be like that when I got into it. That's not a nice way to fly, a different hotel each night. But C is right, when your alarm goes off at 03.00, it disrupts the family and although I haven't flown for BA, are the short haul rosters there really as stable as long haul? Stand by call outs in wintertime for example? The grass is always more succulent but if I could call it again, with consideration for the family having always being at the top of my mind, I'd go for long haul, take the extended trips, stay faithful and chaste when away, and enjoy the greater continuity of time at home. I have not researched Skylion's analysis of BA and Iberia but I suspect he's right enough. I also suspect that there are more ex BA flying for Virgin than the other way about. I reckon BA is still a job until you die, so that brings it all back to the cabin crew?
cavortingcheetah is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2011, 12:32
  #47 (permalink)  

Mach 3
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Stratosphere
Posts: 622
The point is though that BA remains the benchmark for the UK. You can pretty much guarantee that if we lose a particular perk, it will go for the rest as well - be that pay or conditions.
I think its the other way round isn't it?

The erosion of T&C's across the industry starts with the path of least resistance, which IMHO, occurs at the airlines where the workforce is most poorly organised or represented.

I'm not sure I know of many other airlines in the UK which use bid line rules and my fear is that this one major bonus of working for BA is actually highly inefficient.

I cannot really support my contention and no doubt BALPA at BA would do a good job of demonstrating how, perhaps, both the tangible and the intangible benefits of this rostering paradigm actually outweigh any purely financial analysis, yet I cannot help feeling that this aspect of the business model is coming under increasing scrutiny.

It is the same with the payscales in the light of an increase of retirement age which has made only 24 scales a huge cost.

The financial considerations of joining BA are one part of an important equation but for LHS occupants at other airlines in the middle of their working lives, they are significant.

Any erosion in these aspects of the BA package is significant.

Any comments on the above sentiments would I am sure be much appreciated.
SR71 is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2011, 13:52
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hongkong
Posts: 178
Bid Line

From memory.....BA keep and run the bidline type of rostering because it's cheaper that a normal roster. For the sake of paying a little overtime you never run out of pilots. There's always someone on a day off who is willing to work. You may have then to offer his trip to another (if he was due to work tomorrow) but that will work too. If there really is no volunteer then you 'force draft' from the junior upwards and that is a very nice little earner. Either way BA get a fully trained/qualified pilot 'off the street' with no extra training/holiday/pension costs. In that way you can run a tighter ship with less crews per fleet than other airlines.

Standby in the winter was mentioned. With a bidline you even bid for your month of reserve. There's no standbys on a work line. If you want to be busy bid for reserve over winter flu time. If you want time off to paint your house bid for reserve in May when there's hardly any sickness.

BA publish all the work (in work line rosters) and the pilots sort it out amongst themselves. That's a simplification but BA must be getting a lot from it or it wouldn't have been around since the early '70s. Personally I can't see it being ditched-tweaked, perhaps-anytime soon.
Sygyzy is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2011, 14:29
  #49 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 160
Cavortingcheetah, thanks for your lighthearted take on it all!

Thomas cook selection was fair and thorough. If you genuinely want some tips etc feel free to PM me. If however it was a loaded question of some kind, I have not moved my sights onto BA and virgin through failure. I am in the pool awaiting a call from TCX.

However, I want to get a grip on life at BA too. Thanks to this thread, I feel better informed.

Mr Gammon Flaps - thanks for your opinion. It does indeed sound good. And for me personally I would certainly consider an offer. However, I believe this thread has gone on so long because everyone wants different things from life. Thus to say that BA is unquestionably the best airline is frankly nonsense. Perhaps it would suit more people well than other airlines, but not everyone has shares the same ideals and desires from life.

That is why I am very grateful to those who posted on this thread.
Full Left Rudder is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2011, 14:41
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 836
Personally I can't see it being ditched-tweaked, perhaps-anytime soon.
The general thrust of your comments regarding Bidline is correct - it is cheaper and more efficient than some other systems. However, it is constantly being tweaked and changed as changing needs and desires in the workforce occur. When BA changed from a system of allowances, based on destinations to one based on time away, the patterns of bidding changed dramatically and Bidline was changed to ensure work coverage. There is some disquiet amongst junior pilots at the moment due to stagnation and the subsequent problems of being very junior for a long time. I doubt this will lead to a significant change in Bidline but there are several discussions on the BALPA forum about it.

Bidline is a constantly evolving and changing tool, it is not a set of rules that are cast in stone that has not and will not change. The pilots "own" Bidline as a joint venture with BA and both parties can and do seek changes in the rules as the circumstances change. I do not see Bidline disappearing in the near future but it will evolve and change.
Juan Tugoh is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2011, 17:30
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 698
However, I believe this thread has gone on so long because everyone wants different things from life. Thus to say that BA is unquestionably the best airline is frankly nonsense
Ah but there you have it. You have pretty much highlighted the single biggest attraction of BA to so many pilots. It offers a choice of flying and associated lifestyle. Thats why people leave commands and stable jobs elsewhere to join. If you want to fly short, medium or longhaul you have a choice. If you want to fly a big Boeing then you bid for it, if you would rather wait for a shiny A380 then you sit tight. If you want to live in another country and load all your work into two week blocks you can do that. If you feel like early starts are your preference, you bid for more of them. If the weekend forms an important part of your family/social life then....you get the idea. And as every other pilot has different priorities and preferences, so BA has a system that allows a degree of individual freedom to meet them.

ALL of this is said with the caveat of seniority, which is something many seem to rail against as some sort of restraint of trade. No-one seems to complain from within BA however, mainly because if you intend to stay for the duration it is a simple and fair system - do your time in the trenches and the benefits are waiting for you.

Having joined BA this year from the world of Low Cost, the difference is staggering. Long may it continue.

As for deciding who wins out of Virgin or BA, we may as well start talking about the merits of modular and integrated....
BitMoreRightRudder is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2011, 17:32
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: EU
Age: 43
Posts: 732
Well all things being equal:

You live in the SE, you're younger than 35 and you don't have a jet command.

If you don't live in the South consider the commute, if you're over 35 and have a jet command, say with easyJet, then it'll take you 15 years to get back to the same salary. Add on a few years to recoup the losses over those 15 years and the effects of compound interest on your pension pot.....add in that it's better to have higher earnings whilst younger to let compound interest take effect....

Since I don't match the above criteria above BA is far from the best job in the UK.
Phensocks is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2011, 17:59
  #53 (permalink)  
Está servira para distraerle.
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: In a perambulator.
Posts: 0
(As for deciding who wins out of Virgin or BA, we may as well start talking about the merits of modular and integrated....)

Which brings the thread to a satisfactory conclusion?
(Just politely asking as a matter of curiosity not suggestion).
cavortingcheetah is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2011, 19:35
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 7
Would I be correct in thinking that VA dont include positioning towards the 750 total? Ba counts all positioning towards the credit hours limit, so 4 or 5 positioning trips would make a huge difference.
12 years in BA after regional and charter ops before. lifestyle is great. pay is good. Treated like a competent professional by the Capts.
The first few years are a bit of a slog, but you soon move onwards and upwards!
Big Birdie is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2011, 20:17
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: south east UK
Posts: 375
I think it depends on where you come from and what you are used to, however the fact that BA offers and unrivalled choice of career paths, means that almost everyone should be able to find something close to their ideal lifestyle within BA. In fact if you can't to be honest you are probably in the wrong career!
Obviously there are other considerations - pay, pension - how much of a drop you take to go there etc. For me it was a no-brainer but for an ezy skipper in newcastle I can see how it is a different equation.
However - all the thoughts of 15 years of compound interest and lost salary assume that things will stay similar to how they are at the moment, which ain't gonna happen. Personally my view is that, yes there may be more erosion in t's & c's, or maybe not, but I beleive that BA will always be there or thereabouts at the top. I also think that the low cost dog has had its day. Neither Ezy, nor Ryr have operated a stable, non-expanding business with an increasing cost-base and I don't think either of them will do particularly well doing so. BA have for a number of years operated a stable, occasionaly profitable ( ) business and will continue to do so in my view.
The looming demise of the EU and euro will have catastrophic impacts on many businesses around the world in the short term - again I think the legacy carriers with their global route network and mix of premium and economy pax will wether this alot better than the 1 trick-pony of the low-cost europe only, economy only passengers.

the economic stuff is all just my thoughts and to be honest you may as well toss a coin when it comes to second guessing that stuff - but from my view BA is the only place to be.
757_Driver is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2011, 00:42
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Home of the Gnomes
Posts: 358
I'm not sure I know of many other airlines in the UK which use bid line rules and my fear is that this one major bonus of working for BA is actually highly inefficient.
If Bidline is that inefficient, why are guys doing 900 hours a year and VS doing 750?
Tay Cough is online now  
Old 19th Jul 2011, 13:29
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 77
Chaps, apologies if its been covered, or if its rude to ask, but what is the sort of pay a new joiner can expect....
111boy is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2011, 15:36
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: London
Posts: 32
111 boy, you'll find it buried as post #1978 (19 March 2011) on "The Lowdown" thread. Thats the trouble when threads get to this length......
Von Smallhausen is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2011, 15:54
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 77
Ok found it and the other thread, just being lazy, thanks for your help....
111boy is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2011, 16:24
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: earth
Posts: 298
If Bidline is that inefficient, why are guys doing 900 hours a year and VS doing 750?
If BA pilots are doing 900 hrs a year why am I doing 700?
mr ripley is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.