Just a thought for the airline bosses out there....
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Just a thought for the airline bosses out there....
As I watch with disgust 
at the waste of young talent being forced out of HM Forces at the moment, I can't help but feel that this could prove a golden opportunity for some quick thinking airlines. Over the next 18 months there will be a lot of young, very high calibre and well motivated individuals looking for a cockpit.
Many will already have their 'Wings' awarded. They would represent an extremely good investment, having already been selected as aircew and proven themselves in one of the most demanding training systems in the world. As far as investment and training risks go, I don't think you could get better odds!
Perhaps a few forward thinking airlines may choose to swiftly introduce a cadet scheme or similar, targeted at these young men and women?
Just a thought...........
at the waste of young talent being forced out of HM Forces at the moment, I can't help but feel that this could prove a golden opportunity for some quick thinking airlines. Over the next 18 months there will be a lot of young, very high calibre and well motivated individuals looking for a cockpit.Many will already have their 'Wings' awarded. They would represent an extremely good investment, having already been selected as aircew and proven themselves in one of the most demanding training systems in the world. As far as investment and training risks go, I don't think you could get better odds!
Perhaps a few forward thinking airlines may choose to swiftly introduce a cadet scheme or similar, targeted at these young men and women?
Just a thought...........
I've just done an 'initial' course on a young chap who was dumped from Cranwell part way through his course due to it being chopped in its' entirety. I hope he will enjoy his time with us as cabin crew.
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'Over the next 18 months there will be a lot of young, very high calibre and well motivated individuals looking for a cockpit.'
It's a thought .......... but what about young (and not so young), very high calibre and well motivated individuals with several thousand hours and out of work for 12 months plus looking for a cockpit?
I have every sympathy with the RAF pilots being made redundant but they join the back of very long queue of those who have also suffered the same fate in the civil sector through no fault of their own.
It's a thought .......... but what about young (and not so young), very high calibre and well motivated individuals with several thousand hours and out of work for 12 months plus looking for a cockpit?
I have every sympathy with the RAF pilots being made redundant but they join the back of very long queue of those who have also suffered the same fate in the civil sector through no fault of their own.
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I agree that there are many good pilots looking for jobs at the moment, not just ex military. However, if you wanted a pool of young (late teens- early 20's) trainees/potential FO's, cheap to employ with the right skill sets, they are a good prospect.
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There are plenty of people out there who have been shafted more than once over the last couple of years, why should the military be exempt from reality on entering the commercial world? It is not a question of whether they are 'cheap', but they will have to adapt to market forces from now on.
It is tragic that anyone's career is damaged by recessions, but the military are not an exception to everyone else.
It is tragic that anyone's career is damaged by recessions, but the military are not an exception to everyone else.
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Are you telling me that an airline will pay a cadet entrant the same as a more experienced aviator? There was a significant difference the last time I checked!
I can't help but feel some of you are missing the point of my post and just using this thread as a place to have a good moan? That is your right, of course. However, think about this; many of you will have already qualified as pilots and been employed as such, while most of these personnel have yet to achieve that reality. They have just had all their years of hard work amount to nothing. How many companies would act in this way?
I can't help but feel some of you are missing the point of my post and just using this thread as a place to have a good moan? That is your right, of course. However, think about this; many of you will have already qualified as pilots and been employed as such, while most of these personnel have yet to achieve that reality. They have just had all their years of hard work amount to nothing. How many companies would act in this way?
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ShineyTen,
Quote:
"How much personnel investment have these bright young Chaps had to make, living in the Officers Mess at taxpayers expense for X years"
What?? You mean they are living there free? That's a new one on me, next you will be telling me they don't pay Tax either and have their shoes polished by young virgins every morning! They pay for everything, food, accommodation, grounds maintanance, council tax, plus lots more little charges you would not even consider paying for. The investment comes in wasted years, with no ATPL, type rating or IR to show for it, unlike many of their civilian counterparts.
If you can be bothered to actually read my post, I just highlighted the fact that these young people would be a sound prospect for an aircrew training course. I did not suggest that they were any better or worse than a civilian counterpart, just that they would represent a low training risk.
Is it such a bad thing to hope that they have a better future and at least some prospects outside the military? They took the Queens shilling, swore to lay their lives on the line for Queen and Country (and you!), just as many servicemen and women are doing at present. What sort of person wouldn't want them to at least have a chance?
Quote:
"How much personnel investment have these bright young Chaps had to make, living in the Officers Mess at taxpayers expense for X years"
What?? You mean they are living there free? That's a new one on me, next you will be telling me they don't pay Tax either and have their shoes polished by young virgins every morning! They pay for everything, food, accommodation, grounds maintanance, council tax, plus lots more little charges you would not even consider paying for. The investment comes in wasted years, with no ATPL, type rating or IR to show for it, unlike many of their civilian counterparts.
If you can be bothered to actually read my post, I just highlighted the fact that these young people would be a sound prospect for an aircrew training course. I did not suggest that they were any better or worse than a civilian counterpart, just that they would represent a low training risk.
Is it such a bad thing to hope that they have a better future and at least some prospects outside the military? They took the Queens shilling, swore to lay their lives on the line for Queen and Country (and you!), just as many servicemen and women are doing at present. What sort of person wouldn't want them to at least have a chance?
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I wish the guys the best of luck in every way. Knowing some of them my advice is to get out there get an ATPL under their belt and sometimes more importantly with ex RAF guys a good MCC course and they will be standing in a very strong position to get a job.
But they do need to bare in mind there are a lot of equally high calibre candidates in the job market both with ATPL's and experience. If they roll from the over protected "we're the best" mentality that can breed in the RAF into civy street they may need to keep this in check.
Best of luck, good hunting!
But they do need to bare in mind there are a lot of equally high calibre candidates in the job market both with ATPL's and experience. If they roll from the over protected "we're the best" mentality that can breed in the RAF into civy street they may need to keep this in check.
Best of luck, good hunting!
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Fintastic
What?? You mean they are living there free? That's a new one on me, next you will be telling me they don't pay Tax either and have their shoes polished by young virgins every morning! They pay for everything, food, accommodation, grounds maintanance, council tax, plus lots more little charges you would not even consider paying for.
I do agree with you, however, that they have wasted a substantial amount of time. The MOD see it differently, I'm sure, as you join to be an Officer, and not a pilot. Bollocks, of course, but true. I wonder if they'll back that up by offering them another branch.
Sadly, these young, low risk, motivated guys and girls are owed nothing by the private sector. We've all fallen on hard times, and harsh as it sounds, these guys are newcomers to the party. They've had good training, and been paid for the privilege, so I fail to see how their misfortune should except them of the harsh realities of market forces.
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Unfortunately there are no fully sponsored training options any longer. If you plan on waiting around until something like that pops up, you will be waiting a long time. Every pilot who has qualified in the UK in the past 10 years would have had to pay for their commercial training. Even so called 'sponsorships', from Flybe and Thomson really require the trainee to pay for a large part of the course. At my BA selection day recently, I met another candidate who had passed BA selection for the cadet course right before Sept 11th 2001. His course was cancelled, but he went on to do it on his own.
The fastest option for these people would be to quickly undertake their ATPL examinations, and look to attend a military conversion course to obtain their CPL/IRs. Bristol Ground School did this conversion, and there are quite a few smaller outfits which can provide the flying courses.
Airways Flight Training
Professional Air Training: Professional flight training school
The option to bear in mind once qualified however, is that LCC airlines only want cadets, which means you stumping up yet more cash. The only LCC asking for ex-military is Jet2, which has large numbers of ex-military and whose CP is also ex-RAF. But you will need to be qualified to join (but they will TR you).
So the only option is to get your licence conversions done on your own, and then you'll have a far better chance of getting another flying job.
The fastest option for these people would be to quickly undertake their ATPL examinations, and look to attend a military conversion course to obtain their CPL/IRs. Bristol Ground School did this conversion, and there are quite a few smaller outfits which can provide the flying courses.
Airways Flight Training
Professional Air Training: Professional flight training school
The option to bear in mind once qualified however, is that LCC airlines only want cadets, which means you stumping up yet more cash. The only LCC asking for ex-military is Jet2, which has large numbers of ex-military and whose CP is also ex-RAF. But you will need to be qualified to join (but they will TR you).
So the only option is to get your licence conversions done on your own, and then you'll have a far better chance of getting another flying job.
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?
Fintastic, Im not quite sure what the point is of your post.
You suggest that the boys and girls should be employed by airlines, yet there are probably more equally qualified/capable, tallented people available in the civilian world.
So unless there chaps/esses jump the already long queue for jobs, and as you say that they should'nt get preferencial treatment, then what exactly are you suggesting happens?
As alluded to in other posts, they are very capable, but need to fit into the civilian world, and the queue, if thats where they want to work.
SL.
You suggest that the boys and girls should be employed by airlines, yet there are probably more equally qualified/capable, tallented people available in the civilian world.
So unless there chaps/esses jump the already long queue for jobs, and as you say that they should'nt get preferencial treatment, then what exactly are you suggesting happens?
As alluded to in other posts, they are very capable, but need to fit into the civilian world, and the queue, if thats where they want to work.
SL.
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Not Qualified
I think a lot of people are forgetting that these well motivated, enthusiastic Ex-Mil Pilots will not be qualified with an ATPL on leaving the RAF. They may have their wings, but that doesn't count for anything in the civilian world of flying until you have 500 command time. (This is my understanding from LASORS and from my time in the RAF).
Therefore for these individuals to be suited for the job, they'll need to undertake a FULL ATPL course at a cost of £60k or more and then they wont be qualified for at least 18 months and most of them aren't being released for another 6-12 months (Again, I could be wrong, but this is my understanding after talking to a few of the guys in this situation).
Now I'll be the first one to stand up for the work ethic and morals of the Ex-Military Flight Crew, but in reality, unless they stump up the £60k themselves now and do it part time while they are waiting for the withdrawal from training date sometime in the future then these individuals will not be ATPL qualified for up to 2.5 years. I cant see any airline stumping up the money for the ATPL and type rating regardless if they were in the right "Squadron" or not.
We're also assuming all 100 or so are wanting to be Airline pilots. Most of the FJ Pilots I know don't want the lifestyle and have had a gut full of flying.
However, the Pilots in the position to retire in the near future that have been plugging in the hours on the E-3D and C-17 and other Multi Engine aircraft will have a much smoother transition into the civilian world.
I'm happy to be corrected if wrong, but this is my picture of the current situation. Those newly qualified without a job in the Civvie world need not panic about too much competition yet.
However, give it 2.5 years and there will be a lot of high quality competition.
Therefore for these individuals to be suited for the job, they'll need to undertake a FULL ATPL course at a cost of £60k or more and then they wont be qualified for at least 18 months and most of them aren't being released for another 6-12 months (Again, I could be wrong, but this is my understanding after talking to a few of the guys in this situation).
Now I'll be the first one to stand up for the work ethic and morals of the Ex-Military Flight Crew, but in reality, unless they stump up the £60k themselves now and do it part time while they are waiting for the withdrawal from training date sometime in the future then these individuals will not be ATPL qualified for up to 2.5 years. I cant see any airline stumping up the money for the ATPL and type rating regardless if they were in the right "Squadron" or not.
We're also assuming all 100 or so are wanting to be Airline pilots. Most of the FJ Pilots I know don't want the lifestyle and have had a gut full of flying.
However, the Pilots in the position to retire in the near future that have been plugging in the hours on the E-3D and C-17 and other Multi Engine aircraft will have a much smoother transition into the civilian world.
I'm happy to be corrected if wrong, but this is my picture of the current situation. Those newly qualified without a job in the Civvie world need not panic about too much competition yet.
However, give it 2.5 years and there will be a lot of high quality competition.
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sorry to say but there is no such thing as a que in the hard real world of airline recruitment. The airlines will recruit anyone that fits the current requirement mould regardless of time out of work etc. I suspect that in a few years there will be a shortage again so most people should get positions.
