Article on VUELING pilots living like gipsies
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Article on VUELING pilots living like gipsies
Pilotos de Vueling viven en un albergue de un barrio gitano
The article explains that Vueling pilots earn 850 euros/month and they live in a area for gypsies nearby the airport, some of them sleep in their car.
This is the new generation pilots. Welcome to XXIth century.
The article explains that Vueling pilots earn 850 euros/month and they live in a area for gypsies nearby the airport, some of them sleep in their car.
This is the new generation pilots. Welcome to XXIth century.
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I know some guys who have done that in the US, lived out of a van in the airport parking lot, to save money and send some home to their families.. but I didn't think it was goin on in Europe too.
Well, not surprised one bit by this, anyways.
Well, not surprised one bit by this, anyways.
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Who do you blame though? The companies for offering such poor T & Cs? Or the very people who are prostituting themselves just to fly aeroplanes?
The EU, national governments and aviation authorities actually. They make, amend, and supposedly enforce the rules and laws which the companies have to abide by.
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There seems to be very little other choice these days for new pilots. Until the powers that be put a restriction on flight experience and make aviation abide by employment laws in regards to salary, working conditions and training then it wont change for the better any time soon.
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It will never improve. It can only get worse.
We have to get use to it. New lifestyle. Crappy profession. At least 35 euros to fly all over europe is pretty cheap, that makes passengers happy
We have to get use to it. New lifestyle. Crappy profession. At least 35 euros to fly all over europe is pretty cheap, that makes passengers happy
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The unions along with established flight crew are responsible for the management suits successfully perpetrating the scam of P2F and low wages with poor contract terms upon the industry. It's a slippery slope to go down and it'll take a lot of effort to make improvements - assuming they ever do occur.
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The one and only reason why these schemes exist is because people are prepared to accept it, that is the only reason. If people didn't pay it, or accept it then they wouldn't be there. It's why they charge you triple for your flowers on Valentine's day, because people are prepared to pay it.
I understand that these types of "jobs" are the only thing open to wannabes at the moment, but that doesn't mean you have to accept a shower of sh** to get there. Do a bit (actually, do alot) of research, and don't do the training if there is nothing open. I mean, the flying schools were still full at the start & middle of the recession, what the hell is that all about? Potential pilots spend £100,000 on an integrated course, and then go and spend another EU35,000 on a TR, £130,000 worth of debt, what the hell is that all about? You'll never pay off that debt in 20 years, it is completely bonkers.
At least one chap has a sensible approach, check out this thread, kudos to him. He's obviously done some good, hard research.
I just despair at the desperation and plight of why people do it, and all just to fly an aeroplane.
I understand that these types of "jobs" are the only thing open to wannabes at the moment, but that doesn't mean you have to accept a shower of sh** to get there. Do a bit (actually, do alot) of research, and don't do the training if there is nothing open. I mean, the flying schools were still full at the start & middle of the recession, what the hell is that all about? Potential pilots spend £100,000 on an integrated course, and then go and spend another EU35,000 on a TR, £130,000 worth of debt, what the hell is that all about? You'll never pay off that debt in 20 years, it is completely bonkers.
At least one chap has a sensible approach, check out this thread, kudos to him. He's obviously done some good, hard research.
I just despair at the desperation and plight of why people do it, and all just to fly an aeroplane.
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The option of P2F and poor contracts shouldn't even be available. Terms and conditions will now steadily erode from the bottom up. Someone may well be sufficiently desperate to work for nothing, my point is that the opportunity to do so shouldn't exist.
But in the absence of a strong union it's hard to see how the cohesion that possibly could have prevented these schemes would have been achieved.
Whatever your personal views on unions, the old adage of " we all hang together or we'll hang separately" is certainly proving true and biting with vengeance.
But in the absence of a strong union it's hard to see how the cohesion that possibly could have prevented these schemes would have been achieved.
Whatever your personal views on unions, the old adage of " we all hang together or we'll hang separately" is certainly proving true and biting with vengeance.
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This is not a news article, it hasn't been published on a newspaper but on an aviation blog. It hasn't been written by a journalist either, but someone behind a nickname. I haven't seen anything on this on Spanish media. I would therefore take it with a massive pinch of salt.
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Whatever the name of the journalist is, this is the sad reality, Vueling has now 6 levels of salary!!!! Can you imagine that? All P2F First Officers will be hired on level 6, meaning 850/month (bear in mind they will have spent 25 000 euros to get the job). After 15 years seniority they may reach level 1, which is 2500 euros/month, if they don't loose the medical in the meantime.
It works perfectly, lots of wannabes behind the door, the managers are aware of that, why would we change this system?
Flying an A320 is so good, isn´t it?
It works perfectly, lots of wannabes behind the door, the managers are aware of that, why would we change this system?
Flying an A320 is so good, isn´t it?
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Industrial Action at Vueling over Easter
Trouble is brewing between Vueling management and its pilots.
Apparently, according to a source close to the SEPLA Vueling pilot union, there will be action taken over Easter, between the 17th and 23th of April. related to the cadet issues and other injustices. The Sepla Vueling ( not even two years old ) Union has taken a lot of heat of over these 850 Euros level 6 FO´s and now measures will be taken soon, it´s about time. The union has been pushed to the wall by the draconian management in place, and now.
The Vueling pilot union negotiated a first collective agreement in which the old Clickair FO´s and Old Vueling Captains got a good pay rise but this pay rise for those inside was only agreed to because of the cheap new hire FO´s. In the Vueling collective agreement, improvements such as vacation were made but at the expense of these poor slavelike cadets, who did not exist at the time of negotiations.
Vueling was dishonestly hiding this cadet program from the union, and now Vueling management will pay for this disrespect they have shown to the pilot community. The company has abused the spirit of the collective agreement. Many pilots are pissed off. The time is for the Vueling pilots to be united and support their union and to participate more, as they have been too complacent. The complacency of Vueling Captains has helped create this situation.
Its also too bad that Vueling got so many applications for these postions, with these conditions.
Certain days over Easter are being planned in which the strictest application of the operations manual will be applied as well, and it will be related to the cadets as one of the main issues. An assembly and meeting is coming up on the 14th of March in which this issue will be one of the main topics.
Right now there are cadets on standby on bases ( not their own ) without any pay at all due to the trash contracts that Vueling management has created.
Vueling is doing a lot of trainingupgrading new captains. Vueling needs to hire experienced FO´s to fly with these new Captains .and pay them decently. If Vueling does not fix this new hire cadet program it will affect safety. Passengers do not want to fly on an airline where of the FO´s has been sleeping in a car.
Will it affect safety if management does not improve these conditions, yes
The Sepla Vueling pilot union has just signed an agreement with the Sepla Iberia union.
Apparently, according to a source close to the SEPLA Vueling pilot union, there will be action taken over Easter, between the 17th and 23th of April. related to the cadet issues and other injustices. The Sepla Vueling ( not even two years old ) Union has taken a lot of heat of over these 850 Euros level 6 FO´s and now measures will be taken soon, it´s about time. The union has been pushed to the wall by the draconian management in place, and now.
The Vueling pilot union negotiated a first collective agreement in which the old Clickair FO´s and Old Vueling Captains got a good pay rise but this pay rise for those inside was only agreed to because of the cheap new hire FO´s. In the Vueling collective agreement, improvements such as vacation were made but at the expense of these poor slavelike cadets, who did not exist at the time of negotiations.
Vueling was dishonestly hiding this cadet program from the union, and now Vueling management will pay for this disrespect they have shown to the pilot community. The company has abused the spirit of the collective agreement. Many pilots are pissed off. The time is for the Vueling pilots to be united and support their union and to participate more, as they have been too complacent. The complacency of Vueling Captains has helped create this situation.
Its also too bad that Vueling got so many applications for these postions, with these conditions.
Certain days over Easter are being planned in which the strictest application of the operations manual will be applied as well, and it will be related to the cadets as one of the main issues. An assembly and meeting is coming up on the 14th of March in which this issue will be one of the main topics.
Right now there are cadets on standby on bases ( not their own ) without any pay at all due to the trash contracts that Vueling management has created.
Vueling is doing a lot of trainingupgrading new captains. Vueling needs to hire experienced FO´s to fly with these new Captains .and pay them decently. If Vueling does not fix this new hire cadet program it will affect safety. Passengers do not want to fly on an airline where of the FO´s has been sleeping in a car.
Will it affect safety if management does not improve these conditions, yes
The Sepla Vueling pilot union has just signed an agreement with the Sepla Iberia union.
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Finally A Sensible Post
Well done Hannibalpower 
that's the exact attitude to have against this p2fly and the only solution to change things! Not the usual moaning against the young p2fly pilot!!! It is the role of the experienced pilot, especially captain and training captain, to be "brave" and to fight against the p2fly inside their airline.
Good luck with the action over Easter
that's the exact attitude to have against this p2fly and the only solution to change things! Not the usual moaning against the young p2fly pilot!!! It is the role of the experienced pilot, especially captain and training captain, to be "brave" and to fight against the p2fly inside their airline.Good luck with the action over Easter
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What dribble; no one makes anyone accept these offered terms, there is no subterfuge.
With oil prices soaring, (not to mention taxes on air travel and Eurocontrol fees), the public need some subsidized seats courtesy of our ultra keen pilots.
I greatly value their contribution to assist my hard pressed wallet and would miss their efforts should they choose to remove their support!
And, before anyone starts crying about fatigue and FTL's, I would point to Vuelings impeccable safety record. Clearly not a consideration. Many Biz Jets (my Op included) are entirely private and have no FTL Scheme.
Please don't dissaude these most helpful chaps in their efforts to prop up cheap air fares.
With oil prices soaring, (not to mention taxes on air travel and Eurocontrol fees), the public need some subsidized seats courtesy of our ultra keen pilots.
I greatly value their contribution to assist my hard pressed wallet and would miss their efforts should they choose to remove their support!
And, before anyone starts crying about fatigue and FTL's, I would point to Vuelings impeccable safety record. Clearly not a consideration. Many Biz Jets (my Op included) are entirely private and have no FTL Scheme.
Please don't dissaude these most helpful chaps in their efforts to prop up cheap air fares.
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A storm is coming
Thanks for your support Thundebird appreciated.
Vueling´s impeccable safety record is under threat with inexperienced cadet that sleep badly in vans and whom may have financial stress.
The newest aircraft to Vuelings fleet is MSN 323 with 5A1 engines.
Combine this with these cadets and newly upgraded Captains and
Who do you know does low cost with short turnarounds and old aircraft ?
Vueling pilots were not happy with the P2fly but did not have any collective agreement. The Captains salaries at Vueling arent too bad with a lot of experienced ones who came from many different backgrounds. Now many pilots and the guys at the union are downright angry at the disrespect imposed by a dictatorial management. Vueling´s union has been patient and reasonable understanding that pilots want the airline to grow ( new upgrades ) and that there was competition for the production with Iberia, too patient.
Apparently support will come from Vueling´s big brother union Sepla Iberia at the appropiate time according to a inside source. We shall see.
Vueling pilots have been manipulated and abused by management. They fired a guy in Clickair for not paying for a coca cola and another for flight safety reasons.The union has stopped the unprecedented and random firing of pilots and reign of fear that existed in Clickair. The message from Vueling´s management is that if you make noise Iberia will take your flights and give them back to Iberia.
Everyone has their limit and Vuelings management has crossed the line.
Vueling´s impeccable safety record is under threat with inexperienced cadet that sleep badly in vans and whom may have financial stress.
The newest aircraft to Vuelings fleet is MSN 323 with 5A1 engines.
Combine this with these cadets and newly upgraded Captains and
Who do you know does low cost with short turnarounds and old aircraft ?
Vueling pilots were not happy with the P2fly but did not have any collective agreement. The Captains salaries at Vueling arent too bad with a lot of experienced ones who came from many different backgrounds. Now many pilots and the guys at the union are downright angry at the disrespect imposed by a dictatorial management. Vueling´s union has been patient and reasonable understanding that pilots want the airline to grow ( new upgrades ) and that there was competition for the production with Iberia, too patient.
Apparently support will come from Vueling´s big brother union Sepla Iberia at the appropiate time according to a inside source. We shall see.
Vueling pilots have been manipulated and abused by management. They fired a guy in Clickair for not paying for a coca cola and another for flight safety reasons.The union has stopped the unprecedented and random firing of pilots and reign of fear that existed in Clickair. The message from Vueling´s management is that if you make noise Iberia will take your flights and give them back to Iberia.
Everyone has their limit and Vuelings management has crossed the line.
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All one needs is 500 hrs on type and Asia is wide open for you.
If i had one suggestion to fos,it would be learn all you can,get as good as you can get and move!!
For captains,you can complain all you want,there are high paying jobs in asia.
The problem i believe is not the P2f,if captains agree with low salaries,fos will of course be paid less...
When the majority of captains will go where the money is,fos pay wil get higher as the airline will need upgradable fos and not just replaceable right seaters..
If i had one suggestion to fos,it would be learn all you can,get as good as you can get and move!!
For captains,you can complain all you want,there are high paying jobs in asia.
The problem i believe is not the P2f,if captains agree with low salaries,fos will of course be paid less...
When the majority of captains will go where the money is,fos pay wil get higher as the airline will need upgradable fos and not just replaceable right seaters..