Article on VUELING pilots living like gipsies
I Have Control
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There are plenty of car/van/caravan pilot dwellers at LGW, in the staff car parks. Mostly non-UK residents, paying minimal taxes above income tax, and working for easyJet and Ryanair. Sign of the times.
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The authorities should move these guys on.
So, if its true that these guys sleep in vans, where do they wash/shower/crap/iron their uniforms/eat ???? You have to have some level of appearance and hygiene to work for an airline.
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To return to the theme of this thread:
From a pure investment point of view, to pay EUR100,000 for a pilot license, another EUR30,000 for a rating, in order to get a salary of EUR850 before taxes...hmm...let me think think about that for a second.
A fool and his money soon go separate ways.
From a pure investment point of view, to pay EUR100,000 for a pilot license, another EUR30,000 for a rating, in order to get a salary of EUR850 before taxes...hmm...let me think think about that for a second.
A fool and his money soon go separate ways.
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cyfer,
you can wash yourself at the airport toilet. in the middle of the night, there is nobody.you can have shampoo over the sink!
Do I have to teach you how to wash yourself?
for ironing? hang your clothes in your car, and spray some water on them.
for eating? eat sandwich at the airport, free water in the toilet.
clean your clothes?: buy soap, and clean them in the toilet, hang them in your car after rinsing them in the sink.
buy air matrass for your van.
cyfer, this is going to be your life, if you land a job after spending 130'000 euro. welcome in the world of total losers!
you can wash yourself at the airport toilet. in the middle of the night, there is nobody.you can have shampoo over the sink!
Do I have to teach you how to wash yourself?
for ironing? hang your clothes in your car, and spray some water on them.
for eating? eat sandwich at the airport, free water in the toilet.
clean your clothes?: buy soap, and clean them in the toilet, hang them in your car after rinsing them in the sink.
buy air matrass for your van.
cyfer, this is going to be your life, if you land a job after spending 130'000 euro. welcome in the world of total losers!
captain, that is not a life, but a mere existance. Hardly any different from a homeless person sleeping under a bridge. Is there no DIGNITY left in these people ? Hell, if conditions are that bad, and its true that there are so many of the pilots sleeping in vans, then have they never heard of 'sharing' a place ?
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...and all this me$$ happens, because stupid and desperate pilots accepting all the low TandC the "management guys" try to implement.
Their fault to accept this cr@p conditions will lower all our salaries more and more.
Every single colleague accepting to fly for food (obviously like in VLG, LTO, GMI and others of course) is a potential gravedigger of the T and C
The low T and C we have actually almost worldwide is just the Pilots fault
Their fault to accept this cr@p conditions will lower all our salaries more and more.
Every single colleague accepting to fly for food (obviously like in VLG, LTO, GMI and others of course) is a potential gravedigger of the T and C
The low T and C we have actually almost worldwide is just the Pilots fault
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There are plenty of car/van/caravan pilot dwellers at LGW, in the staff car parks. Mostly non-UK residents, paying minimal taxes above income tax, and working for easyJet and Ryanair. Sign of the times.
Ryanair don't have a base at LGW. There are no Ryanair pilots at LGW. In 5 years working for easyjet I'm yet to fly with a pilot who lives in a car in the staff car park. Yet to see a caravan in any of them either.
Sorry to rain on your lovely story. Nothing like the truth getting in the way eh!
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Absolutely right, the pilots who sign these contracts and then start bitching 3 months later are almost as much to blame.
We should encourage pilots no to apply for these positions until conditions improve.
A lot of the ones who do apply are from wealthy families which means they are there for their financial sitatuation rather than pure skills.
When they start getting their paycheque, then will see.
Part of the problem is supply and demand. ****ty economic environement that was supposed to improve and all the airlines that went bankrupt
Lets all take a stand and say no and try to think as a collective. As one.
Lets try to think of the other guy. I remember how hard it was to get a start.
It took longer for me as I never paid for a type rating. I am proud that i never paid for a type rating, but understand that others have too. but hell lets not bicker and fight so much amongst ourselves
Meanwhile management laughs at us while they collect their fatter and bigger bonus cheques.
Do you think we are stupid ?
We should encourage pilots no to apply for these positions until conditions improve.
A lot of the ones who do apply are from wealthy families which means they are there for their financial sitatuation rather than pure skills.
When they start getting their paycheque, then will see.
Part of the problem is supply and demand. ****ty economic environement that was supposed to improve and all the airlines that went bankrupt
Lets all take a stand and say no and try to think as a collective. As one.
Lets try to think of the other guy. I remember how hard it was to get a start.
It took longer for me as I never paid for a type rating. I am proud that i never paid for a type rating, but understand that others have too. but hell lets not bicker and fight so much amongst ourselves
Meanwhile management laughs at us while they collect their fatter and bigger bonus cheques.
Do you think we are stupid ?
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I haven't posted on here for a fair old while. Mainly because of the absolute polar views. It seems increasingly obvious that many of the people inhabiting this forum are probably too stupid to breath without being reminded.
Let me try and lay this out clearly.
IF "cadets" did not pay to fly, obviously it wouldn't exist.
IF existing crews refused to fly with/train/accept PTF, it also wouldn't exist.
You cannot simply blame one or other party. Both are to blame in equal measure.
What's really interesting is the dilemma that almost everyone I've ever spoken to who has agreed to fund line training (a la Easyjet and OAA First officer plus, which, however hard you try to dress it up isn't REALLY "pay to fly") or truly PTF doesn't WANT to do it. Not one of them has woken up and thought "you know what? I fancy spunking ANOTHER £30k today". They feel it is the only option open to them. You want to stop them paying? Stand up for them - for christ sake, make your airline actually have some standards and recruit properly - if they feel there IS an alternative, you may be suprised. Currently there is NO minimum educational qualifications. Only the qualification that you can get through the required hoops for licence issue.
At the same time, all the experienced people feel that they are being undercut and their privileges stripped away. They feel that any advice they give falls on deaf (or desperate) ears and therefore there's no point in fighting for these jumped up little ****s who just want a jet job straight away. After all "why can't they just get an FI ticket and work their way up, like I had to". Which is totally valid. Why SHOULD someone with 200 hours total experience be able to get straight into the right hand seat of a jet?
Overall this problem doesn't get solved by the self important who claim one side or the other is idefatigably "right". It requires some significant "working together". But of course, that would require people in this industry to look beyond themselves....which sadly, it would appear to be a pre-requisite to NOT have.
Let me try and lay this out clearly.
IF "cadets" did not pay to fly, obviously it wouldn't exist.
IF existing crews refused to fly with/train/accept PTF, it also wouldn't exist.
You cannot simply blame one or other party. Both are to blame in equal measure.
What's really interesting is the dilemma that almost everyone I've ever spoken to who has agreed to fund line training (a la Easyjet and OAA First officer plus, which, however hard you try to dress it up isn't REALLY "pay to fly") or truly PTF doesn't WANT to do it. Not one of them has woken up and thought "you know what? I fancy spunking ANOTHER £30k today". They feel it is the only option open to them. You want to stop them paying? Stand up for them - for christ sake, make your airline actually have some standards and recruit properly - if they feel there IS an alternative, you may be suprised. Currently there is NO minimum educational qualifications. Only the qualification that you can get through the required hoops for licence issue.
At the same time, all the experienced people feel that they are being undercut and their privileges stripped away. They feel that any advice they give falls on deaf (or desperate) ears and therefore there's no point in fighting for these jumped up little ****s who just want a jet job straight away. After all "why can't they just get an FI ticket and work their way up, like I had to". Which is totally valid. Why SHOULD someone with 200 hours total experience be able to get straight into the right hand seat of a jet?
Overall this problem doesn't get solved by the self important who claim one side or the other is idefatigably "right". It requires some significant "working together". But of course, that would require people in this industry to look beyond themselves....which sadly, it would appear to be a pre-requisite to NOT have.
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Do you think we are stupid ?
look at the trend, pay for your ppl, cpl/ir, MCC, T/R, line training, hours on type, and even for your captaincy.
if you don't like it, nobody forced you to enter into this profession, right?
years ago, Internet didn't exist, if I was 20 yo again , I would investigate on the internet, and probably do something else.
what's the point to pay 130'000 euro to finish sleeping in a van for 800 euro a month?only fools join this profession.
Hardly any different from a homeless person sleeping under a bridge
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Clanger32
Complete nonsense. If that is the only option open to cadets then why are they even training? You don't get it. The flight schools are still full 6 months into a recession. The exam halls are still full half way through the recession, there is no shortage of information out there to be researched, hell it was even front page news for 2 years, yet people plough on with training. You're calling us stupid?
Complete nonsense. If that is the only option open to cadets then why are they even training? You don't get it. The flight schools are still full 6 months into a recession. The exam halls are still full half way through the recession, there is no shortage of information out there to be researched, hell it was even front page news for 2 years, yet people plough on with training. You're calling us stupid?
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The character of flying today is not what it was 20 years ago.
Borrowing and investing huge sums of money in order to be abused by employers that pay next to nothing for very long working days is no future for any young person.
Please, all of you young people interested in flying, get yourself a proper university education (or other) that will earn you a proper income under proper, decent working conditions. Then join a flying club and fly in your free time. You will be much much happier and you will own your time.
Borrowing and investing huge sums of money in order to be abused by employers that pay next to nothing for very long working days is no future for any young person.
Please, all of you young people interested in flying, get yourself a proper university education (or other) that will earn you a proper income under proper, decent working conditions. Then join a flying club and fly in your free time. You will be much much happier and you will own your time.
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For sure those cadets should have never signed that contract,
But why don´t we start from the beginning? Maybe the Caps and FOs already in the company should have not signed the Convenio.
But it is so easy to sign a Convenio like that so you get benefits for you but not for the future pilots joining the company.
But why don´t we start from the beginning? Maybe the Caps and FOs already in the company should have not signed the Convenio.
But it is so easy to sign a Convenio like that so you get benefits for you but not for the future pilots joining the company.
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Hi All.
1. Vueling´s Captains are agree with the new salary conditions for First Officer because Captain´s salaries have been improved due to the Cadet Program. In other words, a Captain is earning a great salary thanks to his First Officer who is living in bad conditions and SEPLA as well as COPAC are agree as well. All this matter is a mafia.
2. Passengers...they will continue travelling with Vueling. The only reason why they could change to another company would be if Vueling suffered an incident or accident. In other words, passengers, the customer, could see a relation between the bad internal conditions and safety. Passengers are interested in their pockets righ now.
3. Remember... Spanair had an accident meanwhile the company, the employees were under a laboral high pressure. That´s why, Spanair is in trouble and will continue until its extinction.
BR.
1. Vueling´s Captains are agree with the new salary conditions for First Officer because Captain´s salaries have been improved due to the Cadet Program. In other words, a Captain is earning a great salary thanks to his First Officer who is living in bad conditions and SEPLA as well as COPAC are agree as well. All this matter is a mafia.
2. Passengers...they will continue travelling with Vueling. The only reason why they could change to another company would be if Vueling suffered an incident or accident. In other words, passengers, the customer, could see a relation between the bad internal conditions and safety. Passengers are interested in their pockets righ now.
3. Remember... Spanair had an accident meanwhile the company, the employees were under a laboral high pressure. That´s why, Spanair is in trouble and will continue until its extinction.
BR.
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Lack of experienced FO´s entering
This cadet program was so Iberia and Vueling management could suck more money out of Vueling and milk the cow for more.
The Vueling captain salary is still far below the Easyjet salary.
Sepla is making some progress but they have a lot more to do, especially with this cheapo level 6 pay, with a base pay of 800 Euros !
All these new hire cadet dropping the experience level significantly in Vueling.
Experienced FO´s who enter Vueling with more than 2200 factorized ( like Easyjet ) hours will get a higher pay scale,
CEO Alex Cruz wrote ( to influence pilots into signing the collective agreement ) that Vueling would hire experienced FO´s in an e-mail last August, if growth so required. Growth has so required a percentage of experienced FO´s this minimum percentage has not been realized in the new hires. ( They have hired a few experienced guys though.)
Looks like he has not kept his promise to hire enough experienced A- 320 FOs at Vueling.
Why doesn´t CEO Alex Cruz keep his promise and hire some more experienced A-320 FO´s and restore Vueling´s reputation ?
He will learn the lesson that it is not just about profit and punctuality.
Before Vueling has something happen.
Vueling management just looks at the cheapo FO´they are getting. With all the new upgrades. They do not care that experienced FO´s will help increase the safety level with these newly upgraded Captains.
What a surprise Vueling cant find high calibre experienced FO´s at such low scales.
Vueling used to hire more experienced FO´s
Doesnt experience count any more in an airline ?
The Vueling captain salary is still far below the Easyjet salary.
Sepla is making some progress but they have a lot more to do, especially with this cheapo level 6 pay, with a base pay of 800 Euros !
All these new hire cadet dropping the experience level significantly in Vueling.
Experienced FO´s who enter Vueling with more than 2200 factorized ( like Easyjet ) hours will get a higher pay scale,
CEO Alex Cruz wrote ( to influence pilots into signing the collective agreement ) that Vueling would hire experienced FO´s in an e-mail last August, if growth so required. Growth has so required a percentage of experienced FO´s this minimum percentage has not been realized in the new hires. ( They have hired a few experienced guys though.)
Looks like he has not kept his promise to hire enough experienced A- 320 FOs at Vueling.
Why doesn´t CEO Alex Cruz keep his promise and hire some more experienced A-320 FO´s and restore Vueling´s reputation ?
He will learn the lesson that it is not just about profit and punctuality.
Before Vueling has something happen.
Vueling management just looks at the cheapo FO´they are getting. With all the new upgrades. They do not care that experienced FO´s will help increase the safety level with these newly upgraded Captains.
What a surprise Vueling cant find high calibre experienced FO´s at such low scales.
Vueling used to hire more experienced FO´s
Doesnt experience count any more in an airline ?
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(Two years from now)
" You were living 'tint car? You were lucky!
We dream't of livin 'tint car, we live't in shoebox in't middle of 't road"
Get up in middle of't night, lick road clean, cycle-nay crawl to't work, fly 200 folk to Alicante, Fly another 200 home, crawl 'ome to gravel pit, pay gravel pit owner to let me sleep in sewage lake......
Suck it up boys you're living the dream!
" You were living 'tint car? You were lucky!
We dream't of livin 'tint car, we live't in shoebox in't middle of 't road"
Get up in middle of't night, lick road clean, cycle-nay crawl to't work, fly 200 folk to Alicante, Fly another 200 home, crawl 'ome to gravel pit, pay gravel pit owner to let me sleep in sewage lake......
Suck it up boys you're living the dream!
Last edited by BarbiesBoyfriend; 31st Mar 2011 at 01:30.