Thomas Cook recruiting
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An incendiary first post CJMAN. You better be right, otherwise I feel a lot of heat coming your way!
FULL LEFT RUDDER, I'd be surprised if they didn't look at a few people during the recruitment season. How many, if any, are recruited is the standard sum of fleet size, resignations, retirements, promotions and long term sickness levels. I'd very much doubt if the FltOps management have more than an educated guess as to their needs at this stage. You'd best hope for no fleet reduction, 30+ off to pastures new and a dozen or so new commands. Although the exact opposite of the above is easily possible.
FULL LEFT RUDDER, I'd be surprised if they didn't look at a few people during the recruitment season. How many, if any, are recruited is the standard sum of fleet size, resignations, retirements, promotions and long term sickness levels. I'd very much doubt if the FltOps management have more than an educated guess as to their needs at this stage. You'd best hope for no fleet reduction, 30+ off to pastures new and a dozen or so new commands. Although the exact opposite of the above is easily possible.
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of course its likely to be cr@p, the rumour mill is rife in TCX at the moment and the management have done utterly nothing to stifle it.
As an example, I heard this morning something which would indicate a sudden and unexpected increase in LH demand this winter, but there is no point in putting on PPRUNE as it will probably turn out to be this weeks good idea and forgotten about by Friday. LH is in flux and you'll only know the true situation at the end of August when the indications are that the might be some important announcements about the airline.
As an example, I heard this morning something which would indicate a sudden and unexpected increase in LH demand this winter, but there is no point in putting on PPRUNE as it will probably turn out to be this weeks good idea and forgotten about by Friday. LH is in flux and you'll only know the true situation at the end of August when the indications are that the might be some important announcements about the airline.
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On a 'director webchat' last week the top man suggested that the current plan is a reduction in fleet size of 4 aircraft at the end of this summer season (3x330 and 1x320). This is not confirmed at this stage, however a permanent fleet reduction of this magnitude would suggest TCX would then be overcrewed by 70ish pilots. I would have thought that redundancies are more likely than recruitment if this pans out (even with some natural wastage)
We are rold the picture will be clearer by August.
We are rold the picture will be clearer by August.
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Sorry, FLAPERON, that redundancy figure is absolutely unsubstantiated. 70 odd pilots was bandied about earlier this year, but it was just one of those rumours that came from someone doing fag packet sums on the pilot establishment. Its very unlikely that there will compulsory job losses as there are loads of bods leaving, considering their options, retiring and even one or two looking at career breaks. So, please don't start frightening people until the facts are known. i.e all the guys that got FT contracts this year.
Just bear in mind when MYT was really in it and many of us had 'job at risk letters' the actual compulsory redundancy figure was ZERO.
Just bear in mind when MYT was really in it and many of us had 'job at risk letters' the actual compulsory redundancy figure was ZERO.
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Macdo - the figures are not unsubstantiated - the figure of 4 aircraft leaving came from the mouth (well, fingers) of FP himself, and as I said, this is to be confirmed. Aircraft are crewed at 14 pilots per 320 and 18 per 330, hence my figure of 70 pilots. Yes there are pilots leaving - current figure stands at 20-25 (including 12 to BA - most of whom are in the hold pool and not likely to be handing in their notice until next year.) So 45 to 50 pilots overcrewed. I'm not saying there will be 45-50 redundancies. I just said that redundancies are more likely than recruitment. I stand by that.
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" 3 A330s and possibly one A320" unquote, makes the whole thing sound a bit less certain.
Even the 330 comment may no longer be valid.
Your own calculation is a fag packet calculation unless you are the DFO posting here anonymously.
Put your posts on XPLORER under your own moniker and see what sort of reaction you'll get. On here, even if you feel justified, its unfair worry people sitting at the bottom of the seniority list when neither of us have much more than rumour and maybe's to work with.
Personally, with quite a few years of observation of this company, it wouldn't surprise me if we recruited next season, I would be more surprised if they pushed anyone out.
Even the August announcement, which we agree on, we shouldn't believe until it actually appears.
Even the 330 comment may no longer be valid.
Your own calculation is a fag packet calculation unless you are the DFO posting here anonymously.
Put your posts on XPLORER under your own moniker and see what sort of reaction you'll get. On here, even if you feel justified, its unfair worry people sitting at the bottom of the seniority list when neither of us have much more than rumour and maybe's to work with.
Personally, with quite a few years of observation of this company, it wouldn't surprise me if we recruited next season, I would be more surprised if they pushed anyone out.
Even the August announcement, which we agree on, we shouldn't believe until it actually appears.
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macdo - pprune is a rumour network - people share thoughts, ideas and opinions. I have been expressing my opinion, and to be fair, it has been opinion based on facts which is more than can be said for many of the posts on here. I let you share your opinions without criticism however misplaced they may appear to me.
What would be the point of posting my thoughts on xplorer?? I was answering a question raised by someone who clearly doesn't work for TCX.
Anyone who works for Thomas Cook will be well aware of the situation and have their own opinion on the likelyhood of redundancies - I don't think my posts will be telling them anything they don't already know.
What would be the point of posting my thoughts on xplorer?? I was answering a question raised by someone who clearly doesn't work for TCX.
Anyone who works for Thomas Cook will be well aware of the situation and have their own opinion on the likelyhood of redundancies - I don't think my posts will be telling them anything they don't already know.
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If you had posted your original point without the comment about being overcrewed by up to 70 pilots, I wouldn't have taken issue. This figure or any other regarding staffing levels, have not been addressed by or alluded to, by anyone in TCX management.
This is a rumour network, but most people on Pprune don't make unsubstantiated comments about possible redundancies.
Anyway c'est la vie, observers will make of our discussion what they will.
This is a rumour network, but most people on Pprune don't make unsubstantiated comments about possible redundancies.
Anyway c'est la vie, observers will make of our discussion what they will.
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I spoke recently with the head of Pilots, who suggested we wouldn't loose more than the projected 3 A330's. There is of course a hell of a lot going on at TCX, which is leaving management unsure of what the establishment will look like. To qualify my previous statement. Yes, it does seem almost nailed on that 3x A33o's will be leaving (macdo if you have new light to shed, prey tell...). This, I heard a mangement Pilot say has already been factord into the Pilot establishment as the company pulled out of Canadian Affair last year and these were the routes the company operated those aircraft on.
Plans for late summer/winter are currently 2 A330's to do the Hajj for 12 weeks. One 767 is to be leased to Condor for 18 months with our flight deck, doing long haul out of a German base. One 757 will be based in TFS working for TCX Scandanavia. The company are now looking at the logistics of basing a 757 in Calgary doing Hawaii for Jazz for the winter. I heard about this additional work from ' the horses mouth' so to speak. He also said that we are on target for our winter establishment when factoring leave days to be taken, additional GDO's, PPY etc.
Also the summer program has changed significantly. I am already sick of seeing Palma on my roster, which has not been the case for many yeasr. So how will the increased number of shorter sectors affect the establishment?
We all know F P's glass is always half full, things seem to change so quickly at TCX, we are now not told how our bookings are going, so I assume quite well...... Based on the 'suggestions' made flaperon is right (however those crew levels sound a bit high) but macdo is right in that there is so much going on, people leaving (and we have so far only felt the effects of BA recruiting) detatchments, part year etc.
With a sizable payrise coming next year it is to be hoped, should there be a significant Pilot excess the company will look to be pragmatic and reduce costs from the top (a decent EVS, with options) hopefully create a few commands along the way and we can all play nicely..............hmmn............
Plans for late summer/winter are currently 2 A330's to do the Hajj for 12 weeks. One 767 is to be leased to Condor for 18 months with our flight deck, doing long haul out of a German base. One 757 will be based in TFS working for TCX Scandanavia. The company are now looking at the logistics of basing a 757 in Calgary doing Hawaii for Jazz for the winter. I heard about this additional work from ' the horses mouth' so to speak. He also said that we are on target for our winter establishment when factoring leave days to be taken, additional GDO's, PPY etc.
Also the summer program has changed significantly. I am already sick of seeing Palma on my roster, which has not been the case for many yeasr. So how will the increased number of shorter sectors affect the establishment?
We all know F P's glass is always half full, things seem to change so quickly at TCX, we are now not told how our bookings are going, so I assume quite well...... Based on the 'suggestions' made flaperon is right (however those crew levels sound a bit high) but macdo is right in that there is so much going on, people leaving (and we have so far only felt the effects of BA recruiting) detatchments, part year etc.
With a sizable payrise coming next year it is to be hoped, should there be a significant Pilot excess the company will look to be pragmatic and reduce costs from the top (a decent EVS, with options) hopefully create a few commands along the way and we can all play nicely..............hmmn............
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FP thats a pretty balanced view.
A couple of further observations so people can see how things change.
On the Hajj, over the past 3 months that has gone from a single 76, to 76 plus 330, to single 330, now 2 x 330's with a base change back to Batam! Which seems the solid position which we can bid on.
2 Months ago the a/c to be based away was a 330 for Scandi and a 75 in TFS for Condor. All change again, sounds like fun whatever the deal!
As far as the 3 330's leaving, there have been many whispers over the last few weeks that, in fact it will only be 2. But yesterday there were some indications from the Tour Operator that work currently transferring over to another operator might not all disappear from us. This is two separate rumours, which was why I have not posted anything specific, but it sounds hopeful.
re. Your info on Hawaii, I heard from engineers some weeks ago, and I laughed as it seemed so fanciful, just goes to show. LOL
We work in an unstable industry in the best of times, but right now just about anything could happen. Personally I'm more concerned about the state of the tour operator than the airline. It looks like the tailend of the summer will be a sea of red ink, we can only hope that margins are sufficient for these cut price holidays to be sold with a bit of profit.
MIllions of holidays still unsold as cash-strapped families abandon plans for summer breaks - mirror.co.uk
A couple of further observations so people can see how things change.
On the Hajj, over the past 3 months that has gone from a single 76, to 76 plus 330, to single 330, now 2 x 330's with a base change back to Batam! Which seems the solid position which we can bid on.
2 Months ago the a/c to be based away was a 330 for Scandi and a 75 in TFS for Condor. All change again, sounds like fun whatever the deal!
As far as the 3 330's leaving, there have been many whispers over the last few weeks that, in fact it will only be 2. But yesterday there were some indications from the Tour Operator that work currently transferring over to another operator might not all disappear from us. This is two separate rumours, which was why I have not posted anything specific, but it sounds hopeful.
re. Your info on Hawaii, I heard from engineers some weeks ago, and I laughed as it seemed so fanciful, just goes to show. LOL
We work in an unstable industry in the best of times, but right now just about anything could happen. Personally I'm more concerned about the state of the tour operator than the airline. It looks like the tailend of the summer will be a sea of red ink, we can only hope that margins are sufficient for these cut price holidays to be sold with a bit of profit.
MIllions of holidays still unsold as cash-strapped families abandon plans for summer breaks - mirror.co.uk
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Yeah Tour Ops really are a big problem to us!
Well if we do get cut loose from the group and follow path Management have suggested maybe we can develop a sustainable business and actually start challenging the Eayjets, Jet 2's and Monarch's.............
Well if we do get cut loose from the group and follow path Management have suggested maybe we can develop a sustainable business and actually start challenging the Eayjets, Jet 2's and Monarch's.............
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Hiring
This thread is an interesting read and contrasts sharply with the PPJN website that implies possible recruitment early in 2012. For those of us aspiring to join it makes for confusing reading!
Good luck to all of you in one of the few quality UK outfits left.
Good luck to all of you in one of the few quality UK outfits left.
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Desk pilot - looking at the updates on ppjn, it seems that about a dozen UK airlines all had positive hiring updates posted on the same day. I think that anyone can update the info on ppjn so I would take it with a large pinch of salt. Not sure what motivation anyone would have for doing that though..... strange!
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As far as rumurs go, I've heard the 75 in TFS, 76 in Germany, 75 in Calgary to Hawaii, new route to Cape Verde and the airline becoming an autonomous scheduled operation. If you remember back to the MYT Lite days, they claimed it was hugely succesful but never had enough 'critical mass' (managment term of the era) to make a viable penetration of the market sector. They also said W patterns and deep nights didn't make any money. And what do find ourselves doing recently?
I've also heard all MAN LH to go to Virgin on 330, possible 6 airframes, slight reduction in UK SH fleet & european expansion of about 5 airframes based/crewed with a Turkish flavour.
Trust some of that helps muddy the water a little. Oh yeah, FP is on his way out and that lady from Tour Ops is taking over, nearly forgot.
I've also heard all MAN LH to go to Virgin on 330, possible 6 airframes, slight reduction in UK SH fleet & european expansion of about 5 airframes based/crewed with a Turkish flavour.
Trust some of that helps muddy the water a little. Oh yeah, FP is on his way out and that lady from Tour Ops is taking over, nearly forgot.
