Turkish Airlines hiring First Officers

[hamd]

wynnwith is accepting F/O's without fATPL, who are current on 320 !!!!.....will that be acceptable to THY???

[alexm320]

doubt!

How many expats currently flying on THY? a good percentage? or they just opened the doors to them?

What are the impressions of the locals, specially the FOs?

Any upgrade policy?

Thanks for your replies!

[jetfly]

Application form

I'm scheduled for an interview with Turkish next week and now I'm trying to figure out their application form which they ask you to fill in prior.

Has anyone else had any problems with this one. I have stubbled a few times where I have absolutely no idea what information they are after.

For example: what would be the difference between "when you stated flying" and "when you started flying training"? (spelling as per application)

Also why would they be interested in my "last" OPC and "first" LPC? You would thing that the last LPC would be of more importance.

And finally, "Type of initial training" Are they referring to any type-rating in particular? And where would I find the "Name of the approved course"?


Any help or hint regarding this is much appreciated.


Cheers!

[Skipping Classes]

Hmm strange, I've filled in their application as well, but these do not ring a bell?

You sure you've got Turkish application and not some agency?

[jetfly]

hmm.... Now that you mention it The application header is joint by both Turkish airlines and Wynnwith.

Would be very strange if it is different from the "regular" Turkish one though.

Still scratching my head on these issues...

[waffs]

Hey does anyone know if they are that strict on the age limit for FOs?? I have all the requirements and 2,500 hours on the airbus but I'm only 23!!

[giangi]

fly the plane of the daddy

[flystar58]

so did any FO actullay passed the interview???

[Don K]

I would like to know that as well, know several Captains that passed but not a single FO??

[pezetaroi]

aug

I'll probably be attending a selection late August, any idea of where I can get LTAC charts to study?

cheers

jerry

[captkirk3000]

Has any first officers who are typed rated in the B737 been hired at Turkish Airlines?

[brklyyn]

Hey
You do not need to study the charts...
as you have to do a departure, 3T' vectors and land
then second departure, engine malfunction, and land.
NAV1/2 are tunes on ILS and VOR. and you will be flying raw data, so Rose mode please and final app course is set. (instructor will set the MDA)
All manually flown, no FD (beside the first takeoff, then you remove it)
that's what happened to me.
and do yourself a favor, just do not complain do whatever you're told to do

Hope this helped
Cheers

[Vortex Thing]

captkirk3000 Has any first officers who are typed rated in the B737 been hired at Turkish Airlines?

Yes but not very many! ( I personally know 3 FOs who are joining) I also know at least 12 who got turned down!!!

Lots and lots of Captains getting hired and not that many FOs. I know a few from my airline who have gone and I hope to join them. I'll tell you when I get back!!

As for levels of experience the guys from my airline who went were between 1500 and 4000hrs TT mostly >1500hrs B737 NG or EFIS all well established FOs who ended up at ARA due to redundancy. There seems little commonality or reason as to those who were selected as they all seem much of a muchness as most of us have flown with each other at some time or other and accepting that people will perform differently in interview the process itself whilst time consuming has not been billed as arduous.

To clear up the degree business. Crisp 2 stop talking rubbish a degree in some countries may be something that you get in high school but it is more than clear that what they are referring to is who we in Europe call University and what the US guys call college i.e where you go from 18-21/22 to get a Bachelors Degree. It was originally a requirement but much like other requirements i.e. JAA licence only it has now been sadly widened (cue the argument) Now you need to to have finished school. i.e gotten to 18yrs old in your countries equivalent.

They have however stipulated that if you have a degree you will get paid more than those who don't.

Re Capt Kirk's question I do not know any one form colleagues who did not have a type rating (either A320 or B737) who has gotten an interview but to be honest would be surprised if they needed to. There are a shed load of type rated pilots with 500hrs on type who are looking for work closer to home than Africa and or the Far East who either cannot, do not want to or haven't got the hours for Qatar, Etihad and MRats. I cannot imagine even needing 300 FOs and 300 Capts will force them to start paying for type ratings any time soon when they have a pretty large flight academy in house which is ramping up to produce those pilots who will replace the expats currently being hired in the long run. (Again rightly so)

Good luck to those from ARA who make it there

[theflyinggreek]

I just finished going through the process, it was interesting to say the least. You have to be really patient with them and the process.VERY Patient....

Sim in the 737 for us 777 guys, They didn't know what to do with me as I have been an FO from most of my career, being in a major carrier in North America.. I had to keep explaining that.. All they wanted to see was that you kept the alt and speed and could fly and talk at the same time and not get angry and flustered to easily. No briefing and no charts for the 737 sim. Airbus you get a full sim ride with briefing.

Interview was very basic and again they want to be sure you will fit in and not have an "attitude". There are some politics involved being a foreign pilot there.. Thats all..

Medical was standard, AiDS, venereal disease tests and normal blood work plus all the standard tests for an initial CATI. Oh yes... a written exam for all narrow body pilots. Its from the ACE book.

I also did a psychometrics test. That was fun and nerve wracking at the same time. I guess I passed everything but they didn't know what to do with such a high time FO. I was offered the position with an upgrade very quickly.

Yes, most Turkish FO's are extremely low in total time but do work hard and try to get along. THey are apprehensive because of the way they have been treated by some capt's. Thats understandable, a starting FO on the B737 has 300 hours..

Lets see what happens next!

[alkor]

app

Hi,

Where is the online application?

Thanks,

Cheers,
A

[gunka]

Theflyinggreek, could you tell me what they consider a high hour F/O for quick upgrades?

[theflyinggreek]

You need to apply through an agency like Paramount, they are great! Some guys used Sigma and Parc.

I have over 11,000 hours TT. Most of their local FO's are in the 360 hours Total time to 2000 hours. From what I have seen, some foreign FO's Have around 5000 hours.

My case was unique. I was told I was the only FO to be hired on the B777.

Cheers,

[gerrytexas]

THY recrewtment

Hi,

you wrote there are some agencies, like Paramount, for application.
Do you have a link to contact them?!

Thank you

Gerry

[alkor]

just google it...

cheers,
a

[Faust]

Turkish Airlines

Hi everyone,

For anyone interested in the Turkish Airlines flight crew positions through Parc, Sigmar etc. please read on… I hope this is of some use to you. (Please note this info is of most use to Boeing crew as there are some things (other types / Capt’s) that I’m not 100% sure on.

1. The agency:
Now depending on which agency you go through, they’ll all tell you something slightly different (T&C’s, application info, procedures etc.) Initially let the agency know of your interest and which type/rank you are going for etc. accompanied with your CV. They should come back to you with a request for further info (licence, logbook, medical cert. scans etc.) and the ‘wonderful’ THY application form. After filling this in and sending it back; some time will pass (shouldn’t be more than a week or so), then several emails/phone calls later, provided you meet the minimum requirements, you’ll be invited to interview!

2. Travel:
The agency will let you know that you have been invited to interview within about 1 week before the interview date… So prepare!... About 2-3 days before the date, they’ll come back to you with the full travel itinerary (E-ticket, hotel reservation number etc.) They should also tell you what documents to bring, but here is a list of just some of the items they may ask for:
Logbook
Licence
Medical Certificate
MCC Certificate
RT Licence
Passport
Letters of proof of hours (unless your logbook is stamped & signed previously)
Degree certificate (if you have one, if not I think a high school diploma is fine)
Approx. 20 standard passport sized photos (Yes 20!!! They seem to collect them)*
*If you need some over there say: “Vee-See-Ka-Luk Foto-Raf Check-Ter-Mek Is-Tee-Yo-Room”*
Now, I was prudent and made photocopies of all of the above (not the photos) to speed up the process (they’ll love you for that!). Eventually you will also need to bring the CRC (criminal record check) & No accident/incident report from your respective country, but this is not necessary straight away.

3. Selection process:
Ok, here we go!
Stage 1…. You should have a message for you at the hotel of their choice, informing you of the collection time in the morning. Now throughout this whole process, I must stress PATIENCE!!! In the morning, they will NOT be there at the specified time (this is due to a combination of “lack of organisation” & “TRAFFIC”) Trust me however, they will be there to collect you at some point, it may even take a few hours, but they will be there. The first day will comprise of firstly the documentation check and possibly the sim but I’ll come onto that. In the documentation check you will be waiting in the designated room on the 4th (Dert in Turkish) floor for some time again. They will eventually come to take photos off of you, documents, and copies if you have them and will kindly ask you to fill in what seems to be the full THY application form again! :S They will then drag each of you to a small room filled with 3 HR people all flicking through your details and app form. One or two of them will ask about your flying details to date and career history (this isn’t really an interview, it’s just to make sure that your not lying ) It lasts for about 5 – 10 mins and is the easiest part of the process.

Stage 2…. The sim will either happen on the same day as stage 1 or the next morning if they are busy, or in my case on the same day at 5pm after being in their poorly air conditioned waiting room with little access to water for 8 hrs!!! I can only tell you what happened to me on this bit as I flew the 737 sim and not the Airbus. On arrival, the TRE’s were about to pack up for the day. They questioned why the HR dept. had sent me to the sim building and then found a TRE to take my sim session. They dragged me to the sim which was the 737-400 with no briefing or charts! then grabbed a poor Turkish First Officer to sit in the other seat. Now at this point they tried to sit me in the left hand seat thinking I was a Capt. I proceeded to explain that I wasn’t and had never flown the classic either! The TRE went ‘Oh well!’ and I sat in the right seat. They may ask a couple of tech questions such as the distance between the runway edge lights and what happens if the ‘Speed Trim’ fails. After this they will simply ask you to take off from whichever runway you’re on, from whichever airport you’re at! In my case, the vis. was approx. 1000m and they failed an engine after V1 straight away (forget whatever profiles you’ve been given by your agency, it probably won’t happen!) The Turkish F/O (pretending to be the Capt.) misdiagnosed the fault as a ‘failure’ not a ‘severe damage’ even though there was a bang, then as soon as the gear was up he proceeded to do the EF-SD&S non-normal checklist recalls without instruction! Then if my heart wasn’t already leaping out of my chest, I had a “terrain, terrain!!!” GPWS warning. The instructor made the mountain miraculously disappear and then I was trimming the aircraft to fly one engine (which by the way, is nearly impossible as the rudder trim dial trims the opposite way to which it’s turned!). After fixing that problem, I noticed the altimeter flicks +-200ft and your expected to do your best to fly straight and level. This truly is a test of flying the aircraft, first and foremost! You can almost forget SOPs and checklists and don’t even bother with RT, you’ll be far to busy keeping it in the air. Put it this way, the sim is screwed! there are many other small faults with the 400 sim which would take forever to go into. They eventually vector you around for a raw data ILS (the Capt. will set up all aids etc.) and the vectoring will cut you in too close and high. When I made visual I had 4 whites! The instinct is to go-around, however the TRE will instruct you otherwise (disobeying this has cost many an experienced candidate the position). So I landed this one-engined, high, fast, piece of crap sim with a 25kt x-wind right on the numbers (I even had a Sink Rate!, Sink Rate! To boot) but this was ok too . On landing there were no other faults and that was it. I thought holy crap!!!! I need this job and that session was awful. They sent me back to the hotel and told me to come to the office tomorrow. I had no idea what was coming next, so I started to pack.

Stage 3…. The next afternoon, I arrived at the office (by taxi after waiting for the transport for 2 hours then giving up) only to find out that that was a mistake and I apparently should’ve waited 2 ½ hrs! They then told me that I didn’t need to come in that day and that (drum roll please!) I had passed the sim!!. I couldn’t believe it. They then said that I didn’t have to do the 30 question ATPL exam either as this was for captains only. I almost had tears of joy, but this was cut short by the news that I had to come in tomorrow to go to the psychometric training building in Nişantaşe (Ni-Shant-Ashay) to do 5 hours of aptitude tests and personality questions. Now folks, this believe it or not is where 90% of F/O’s fall down… I can’t really help you here, suffice to say that there’s some very basic mental arithmetic questions coupled with some other multitasking activities all on computer. i.e. answer 9 x 7 whilst solving a logic puzzle and pressing some coloured buttons. There’s also a 120 question personality questionnaire (as always with these, be truthful). Captains may breathe a sigh of relief at this point, as they don’t have to do these tests. First Officers, you may be wishing you could do that ATPL exam at this point after all… Yes the tests are mentally draining but not too difficult, just relax breathe and take your time …. Well, no too long!

Stage 4…. The interview should happen the day after the aptitude tests and believe me I really got myself worked up before I went in there as I knew this was the final stage. However, here’s what really happens. Back on the 4th floor again in the main office, I was sat for hours whilst one by one we were taken into the interview room. The agencies/THY would have you believe that you’ll be facing a panel of nine people of the highest authority within THY (hell! Maybe even Gazi himself). This is complete bulls**t however; first, they already know the sim, aptitude scores/ATPL results, and have all your records; second, there are only 4 of them in the room and not one of them was the founding father of the Turkish republic. Instead, you will face 3 HR reps and one senior captain. The captain will ask you about your flight training (how you first started etc.), your career to date and maybe hobbies & past-times etc. whilst flicking through your records. Then the second HR rep will ask you about your home life and family etc. Then, he will ask your intentions if successful. You must be eager and forthcoming in your answer that you fully intend to move to Istanbul, you love the city and the culture and that (if you have family) you want to move them out there. They’ll love that answer, and to be honest it’s what they want to hear from everyone. Not one tech question is asked and nor was it from the other candidates I questioned afterwards.

Now put it this way, the interviews whether you’re successful or not, only last for approx. 10 mins. If you walk out of there with a letter in your hand you have not passed. They will have of course told you basically the reasons why in the interview and the letter will say ‘Thanks…. but no thanks’. If you, like myself come out of there with no letter and a ‘thank you very much. Please wait in the room again..’, then you will still be slightly confused as to what just happened and be forced to wait another 30 mins. After this time the room will contain only the remaining successful candidates (in my case, myself and one other captain out of originally 15 applicants), who are then presented with a different letter stating that we were successful and then told we had to go to the police station the next day for our residence permit applications.

This process can take over three hours and is simply a waiting game. But at least you can rest at ease knowing that you are in the company at this point. The truth is that currently around 80% of F/O’s are unsuccessful at selection and 60% of captains respectively. I hope this info will be of use to some of you interested in this position and look forward to hopefully meeting you soon… in the big THY family!

By the way keep all of your taxi receipts whilst you’re over here to hand in to THY head office (4th floor), as they will reimburse you.

Safe flying,

FAUST