Ryan Air pilots

[jupilair]

Maverick,

I am really interested to know where you got your info's from, you may be correct but I heard nothing about that before. Are you actually flying for Ryanair?
I know that nowadays you get a 10% cut when you request a new base. But it's base on the standard salary for FO and CPT for this specific base. Also I know that you have a 10% cut during 6 months after a CPT upgrade.
And on top of that we have a 5 year pilots agreement.
Once again, I am surprised that I heard nothing, as usually FR crews are really fast to spread news like this one.

Regards,

[D O Guerrero]

Maverick said "there is no pay for the first 3 to 4 months from start of type rating, then approx E1000/mth for the next 3 months. Then you're on 55/hr minus 4.50 taken from every hour you work which apparently pays for your 6-monthly sim checks i.e recurrency. FOs on 55/hr can expect to stay on that for 1500hrs which will take 2 years."

The actual facts are:
40.5E per hour until the end of the month of Line check at the end of Line Training.
Then 55.5E per hour until 500 Hours.
Then 75.5E per hour until 1500 hours.
Then 80.5E per hour, post 1500 hours. Which is 64,400E pa even if you only fly 800hours.
If you are out of base after the end of Line Training, add 20E per hour.

If you don't think about the 4.5 E/hr sim fee, then it doesn't matter does it?! You're arguments about the race to the bottom don't really hold water. You can't blame the new joiners, its as simple as that. You'd do the same if you were in the same position. But then again, this debate has been done to death already.

[jupilair]

To Maverick

The "note" to "new joiners" is that the PAY TERMS AND CONDITIONS of all Ryanair pilots is on a race to the bottom!! By new joiners NOT TAKING HEED OF THIS, THEN GOING AHEAD AND JOINING, they are hastening these pay cuts, and hurting existing pilots terms and conditions because all that is seen by management is that there is an endless queue of pilots willing to work for less and less. Thats the message!

I hear so many potential new joiners say "oh i'd almost work for free just to get a job" .....They dont listen to what you are saying!

Hahahaha, Is it the same person who back in 2006 was saying that he would do anything for a job and went for the SSTR with Ryanair.
By the way how can you be permanent FR if you have done your training in 2007 ?
Also 40 hrs is very low, I never heard of so low hours by month. Personally I have an average 80-85 hrs a month, and I will hit the 860 hrs in April.

[matkat]

When, I read threads like this how grateful I am I went into engineering instead of flying. Approx 10 years ago licensed/certifying staff earned around the same basic as a capt. now it seems a capt. is earning much less. Good luck guy's.

[Callsign Kilo]

Maverick

What is the point that I am devoid of exactly? Maybe because I am not beating your drum of persecution and punishment then the points that I make are deemed invalid?

I'm a realist maverick, your head is up in the clouds with the guys who think this place should be some sort of utopia! I sit next to guys who come across like Ryanair owes them something. And while I can sympathise with anyone who has been here long term and therefore witnessed the prolonged decline in their terms, I'm not too stupid to realise that the whole kit and kaboodle that makes this place what it is were always determined to ensure that this is the way it would eventually go.

And you can talk all you like about standing up and fighting your corner. I personally know quite a few that were pulled through the mill in a war between Ryanair and IALPA. And with every one I show enormous respect, because unlike the majority who devote their time to bitching, moaning and blaming others for sitting on their arse, they actually took the risk and put their heads above the paraphit. And on the broad scheme of things did it change the nature of the beast?

You, me and any other sinner won't stop people joining this outfit. However we can present them with a picture of what to expect. You have got to be pragmatic about it and accept that while it can be kind, it can also be cruel. You also better get used to the fact that you won't change anything because it has went well beyond changing!

And to answer your question, I knew all of this before I joined. And I still did. And I'm still glad I did. Sure there have been some right thorns in the ass, but as somebody rightly suggested 'you reap what you sow.'

So Mav, I'll say two things. You too were aware of what it was like when you joined, but you still did. You also know where the door is!

[Callsign Kilo]

Maverick

With all due respect, what do you think i am doing. Letting "wannabees" and other pilots know what they are getting themselves in for.

Your picture has no balance, however I see that it has gone far beyond that stage. You are being eaten up inside and to be honest for every day that goes by, you are only going to get worse. You make a very interesting comment about morale Maverick. Morale seems to vary a lot from one pilot to another in Ryanair. To possibly imply that morale is completely rock bottom within the 2000+ tin can drivers that we have is a fallacy. And the reason being is because Ryanair have created to be like that. The morale that you talk of relates to you and the others that feel like you. I have flown with one or two who could easily fall into this category. It is evident by the way that they approach the job that they have been pushed one way and pulled another and as a result it has become overwhelming. They treat the whole thing with contempt and in turn their own operation suffers. The old saying 'And you mistake me for someone who actually gives a sh1t' has been used on numerous occasions. They don't care what kind of negative attention they attract because they are happy to attract it. Unfortunately they also couldn't give a damn about the careers of those who are unfortunate to fly with them on the day when SOPs once again go out the window.

Now I'm not stereotyping you from what i said above. I accept there are many who have suffered much at the hands of Ryanair. I'm in no position to talk about terms and conditions, dignity and respect however you seemingly are and you make it your agenda. Unfortunately I think you are flogging a dead horse with this lot and in the process flogging yourself twice as hard. It isn't for you.

[SID PLATE]

Maverick lad!.... Have you run out of prozac?
The Ryanair style of management is what it is, and will not change until the the triumviate at the top, M'OL, D O'B and that awfully nice EW either retire or are replaced.
I'm afraid you'll have to work round it, and live with it.
You do get free water though .....

[Desk-pilot]

Just a question

Guys,

I see mention of 28000 euro basic pay for F/O - do I take it that this is in addition to the block hour rates quoted? So for example is it true that a 1000 hour F/O flying say 600 hrs per year would earn:

600x75Euro = E45000
28000 Euro basic = E28000

Total E73000 - if so this sounds quite good or have I got this wrong?

Just curious,

Thanks,

Desk-pilot

[Callsign Kilo]

Desk-Pilot. Maverick quotes the current basic salary for an FO who is contracted by Ryanair. E28000 plus sector pay (unsure what the sector pay rate is at the moment as I am BRK)

BRK (Brookfield) contract for an FO with 1000hrs on type is E75 gross (70.50 net after E4.50 recurrent training is deducted) per block hour.

Anything between 600 (according to pprune) and 700-750 hours (typical at my base) is the average for a Ryanair FO.

[Hernando]

Aside from the usual slogging match on the Ryanair issue,

I'm interested which bases are the best and why? Which are the ones which most newbies ask for, and which ones aren't very popular. Or is it totally random?
Is there such thing as a training base? Do certain bases fly more hours than others?

Thanks - you may continue!

[Callsign Kilo]

Hernando

Which bases are best and why?
Depends what you're after? Doesn't mean you'll get it.
What bases do most newbees ask for?
Generally the ones close to where they live.
What ones are popular?
Sunshine bases, bases close to where the majority of the population live, bases close to where you live, bases with a high demand for transfers in but a low demand for transfers out.
Which bases aren't popular?
Generally the base where they decide to send you, contrary to your request. With over 2000 pilots they don't, can't and won't accomodate everyone. Lady luck plays a big part. Countless Ryanair pilots (including myself) commute or 'jumpseat' for their 5 days of duty.
Is there such thing as a training base?
Larger bases like STN and DUB can be branded as training bases. However they are not officially labelled as such. In general more training may be conducted at these bases because there are more LTCs and the route network is more varied. However training can and is conducted at any base where there is a LTC. And the majority of bases have LTCs. When I was in training a few years back it was Pisa. Others I know went to Prestwick, Bergamo, Alicante and Hahn, along with the usual quota to Stansted and Dublin. It varies.
Do certain bases fly more hours than others?
Yes. There will be 41 bases by the end of June. Some will simply be busier than others. Some will have less FOs than others. Some will train more than others. The list of variables goes on and on. Again lady luck if you catch my drift.

[go around flaps15]

If you want decent hours this summer, Faro, Malaga, Alicante are prime examples. Anywhere the post card has a shiny view.

Obvious.


But true.

[thunderbird-1]

Then 80.5E per hour, post 1500 hours. Which is 64,400E pa even if you only fly 800hours

Does the 80.5€/h apply straight away if you join with more than 1500h or you need to do 1500h in FR?

Once you have a base, is it not too difficult to be transfert to an other (ex: I have been in STN for 2 years, I would like to go to Pisa) or you will be at the bottom of the list after all new joiner?

thanks

[Callsign Kilo]

I can't see you joining as an FO with 1500hrs on type, however if you did you would start on E80.50. Unfortunately Ryanair are only interested in non-rated cadets (for obvious $£$£$ reasons). This is a bit of a let down because there is a gap in experience levels which in the end will put greater reliance on DECs joining. All fine and well when Ryanair exist in an employers market. That won't last forever, however neither will the expansion. With average hours per year dropping, years to command for a year one cadet are increasing. This will only increase further when the shareholders get their pay day. Interesting times for those joining now who expect to be in the LHS in 4 to 5 years!

As for 800hrs per year on 80.50 per block hour - can't see it. Sorry.

As for base transfers, there is no list. Not for transfers, not for training positions, not even car parking passes. They happen, however the only process in place seems to be good fortune and subtle persistence. That, alongside not creating a name for yourself, seems to work. Typical waiting around periods seem to go anything between 6 to 18 months depending on the base. Some longer - much longer. Can often depend on your position ie Cpt or FO

[thunderbird-1]

Not 1500h on type but more than 1500h total, I am just curious, lets say someone coming from TP operator or light jet, would he be on the 80.5€/h?

Even at the minimum yearly hours (600 as per this topic) it is 48 300€ (4025€/month) net before tax wich is not great for flying that much but not bad.
I understood that there is no pension or insurance taken from this salary, you have to make your own. Only the sim, uniform etc..are already removed from your salary.

I guess there is no pay rise for FO once you get this 80.5 even if your're stuck 5 years on the right seat? Only solution is to upgrate cpt. And once you are captain,what €/hours rate you get? Is there any increment or do you stay on the same salary till the end of your career??

Thank you.

[Hernando]

Thanks for the info CSK.

T Bird..

The 500 and 1500 hour thresholds, and their payrises are for hours gained on Ryan aircraft during 'employment' with Ryanair..

At least that was what I read in the contract!

[zerotohero]

Correct

the new contract clearly says pay increase with hours on Ryanair aircraft.

you could have 20,000 hr on 737 - 777- 747 and anything else, if you have never been a captain you start as an F/O on the lower rate,,, you may make captain quicker I guess and skip straight from 60.5euro to the 130?euro an hour captain

but as stated on FR website,, no hiring of experienced F/O's anyway

[BALLSOUT]

Another thing to consider these days is that any cadets joining now will have little chance of a command for a long time. The fleet expansion will be complete within 18 months when 300 aircraft is reached. the fleet will then start to reduce in size, and promotion will only be into "dead mans shoes" I think long term (15 years) in the right seat could soon become the norm. Many may never even see the prospect of a command, with so many F/O's all of similar age and experience, and so many young captains.

[zumzum]

It depends on how many guys will leave. As soon the market will pick up again people will start looking for better contracts somewhere else giving the new joiners fas commands. I left after 3 months...

Anyway, the more i read about this contracts ( 64000 an year) the more I want to cry. It's almost half the money I make in ezy. And I consider it not good enough still.

zz

[BALLSOUT]

zumzum, I wish I had your optimism. I think the days of fast, or even commands at all for many are at an end. I agree, if things pick up, some will leave making way for a few commands. Ryanair already have over 1000 first officers, it will be a long time before the company can offer anything like that many promotions, if ever. the situation is no better at easy or anywhere else. As I said, people starting out now have little or no chance of a command at any time in the foreseeable future, if ever!