Astraeus A320 Contracts
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TCX guys furlough
At the end of the day, pilots need to provide for their families and take jobs that might not be their first port of call. That said, I wish you guys at Astreus the best of luck as I think you are going to need it. When things pick up again, make sure you are quick on your heels out of there.
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NSF's analysis is as near to 100% correct as we are likely to get. This is a union busting exercise and if it gets under way will be more vicious than anything seen previously in this part of the world.
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Quote: "a more pleasant and selfless person you could not hope to meet, certainly not in our profession" Priceless! Off to school now to learn sentence construction.
Discuss: "Behavior that compromises our credibility is particularly damaging and demonstrates poor leadership skills"
Discuss: "Behavior that compromises our credibility is particularly damaging and demonstrates poor leadership skills"
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Very few ex BA folk at Aeu now, and many of them are only part time. All the new Airbus folk are ex Excel, Virgin, and erm....Ezy, plus a few other carriers but not BA, and they are certainly not retirees living off company pensions.
A320 now on the AOC, and the proving flight had no adverse comment whatever from the CAA. Things moving rapidly ahead on many fronts, and not just Aer Lingus. Care to bet on how many aircraft Astraeus may be operating by next Summer? NSF will be chomping on his orange shell suit. Aeu is also hiring 757 and 737 guys, 6 are up for training this month. Its a good place to work, not the highest paid, nor the lowest by any means, and it still retains the character of a company where you are a name not just a number.
There are still people for whom this counts for quite a bit.
If this sounds like a bit of an advert for Astraeus...well....you could be right.
Africa to the Arctic circle, and China to the east coast USA (and all points inbetween) is our scheduled stomping ground this Summer, along with any extra business that our worldwide AOC generates.
While NSF and the ever diminishing legions of "Pilots entitled to brain surgeon salaries"folk whinge and wring their hands at our Airline business model, may I suggest they are in the wrong job. They should have joined the Post office.
A320 now on the AOC, and the proving flight had no adverse comment whatever from the CAA. Things moving rapidly ahead on many fronts, and not just Aer Lingus. Care to bet on how many aircraft Astraeus may be operating by next Summer? NSF will be chomping on his orange shell suit. Aeu is also hiring 757 and 737 guys, 6 are up for training this month. Its a good place to work, not the highest paid, nor the lowest by any means, and it still retains the character of a company where you are a name not just a number.
There are still people for whom this counts for quite a bit.
If this sounds like a bit of an advert for Astraeus...well....you could be right.
Africa to the Arctic circle, and China to the east coast USA (and all points inbetween) is our scheduled stomping ground this Summer, along with any extra business that our worldwide AOC generates.
While NSF and the ever diminishing legions of "Pilots entitled to brain surgeon salaries"folk whinge and wring their hands at our Airline business model, may I suggest they are in the wrong job. They should have joined the Post office.
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Hooray for Astraeus, Hooray, Hooray, Hooray...
...What a wonderful lot they are. Good on them and their employees for spearheading the downward drive on Terms and Conditions for all Pilots...
Hooray, Hooray, Hooray...
...What you guys who have just accepted the lowest ever Terms for A320 crews in UK have done is to ensure that what you think of as a temporary "stopgap" job will become either:
a) permanently awful terms (because all jobs will be paying this when the upturn comes) thanks to your union busting rush to destroy other people's livelihoods;
or
b) no job at all (because once EI management have finished with your union busting, you will be tossed aside like a used johnny at an orgy) - because AEU will have no work for these aircraft.
I don't blame the individuals. They're desperate.
I have made my point about BA retirees, I won't do so again.
BUT, I AGREE WITH NSF 100% THAT THIS KIND OF CONTRACT UNDERMINES US ALL IN THE LONG TERM. IT SHOULD BE AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS.
...What a wonderful lot they are. Good on them and their employees for spearheading the downward drive on Terms and Conditions for all Pilots...
Hooray, Hooray, Hooray...
...What you guys who have just accepted the lowest ever Terms for A320 crews in UK have done is to ensure that what you think of as a temporary "stopgap" job will become either:
a) permanently awful terms (because all jobs will be paying this when the upturn comes) thanks to your union busting rush to destroy other people's livelihoods;
or
b) no job at all (because once EI management have finished with your union busting, you will be tossed aside like a used johnny at an orgy) - because AEU will have no work for these aircraft.
I don't blame the individuals. They're desperate.
I have made my point about BA retirees, I won't do so again.
BUT, I AGREE WITH NSF 100% THAT THIS KIND OF CONTRACT UNDERMINES US ALL IN THE LONG TERM. IT SHOULD BE AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS.
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While NSF and the ever diminishing legions of "Pilots entitled to brain surgeon salaries"folk whinge and wring their hands at our Airline business model, may I suggest they are in the wrong job. They should have joined the Post office.
Nobody should be sitting in either seat on an airliner until they at least hold a full ATPL. Then The T&C's would reflect the true market rate, and there would be less of this nonsense. In the USA legislation is now going through the house to ensure that is the case. It needs to happen here as well. Unfortunetaly it will probably take Sky News images of a smoking hole for it to happen, just as it did in the USA.
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ditto, a big smoking hole will certainly ensure maximun attention, by then the accountants who now prevail as current managers now marching here and there will be by then retired sitting on their millions, with the sorry fells's not our fault flag.
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There are numerous smoking holes on all sides of the Atlantic which were assisted by "fully qualified atpl's", just as there are military pilots with less hours doing an amazing job because of their quality and the quality of their training.
Hours does not equal safety, nor, sadly, does experience, as you should know. Safety is an ongoing process which challenges each of us every working day, no matter what our level of experience.
What I cant figure out is why someone from the US thinks his grass will be greener as a result of Atpl's in seats. It is the quality of the training in the appropriate environment that counts, not 2000 hours in a cessna 152(not trying to besmirch long suffering flight instructors here either!)
The Aeu deal will be good for both Lingus and ourselves and employ a lot of pilots who would otherwise be unemployed.
Airbus operation opens up all kinds of business opportunities for further expansion and thus employing even more staff.
Tell me how evil it all is....go on...you know you want to....
Hours does not equal safety, nor, sadly, does experience, as you should know. Safety is an ongoing process which challenges each of us every working day, no matter what our level of experience.
What I cant figure out is why someone from the US thinks his grass will be greener as a result of Atpl's in seats. It is the quality of the training in the appropriate environment that counts, not 2000 hours in a cessna 152(not trying to besmirch long suffering flight instructors here either!)
The Aeu deal will be good for both Lingus and ourselves and employ a lot of pilots who would otherwise be unemployed.
Airbus operation opens up all kinds of business opportunities for further expansion and thus employing even more staff.
Tell me how evil it all is....go on...you know you want to....
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Aztruk you 
The jobs being created are being taken from existing Aer Lingus staff.
Any new jobs would have been directly with the company if you did not come in and undercut.
Maybe there should be an IFALPA ban.
The jobs being created are being taken from existing Aer Lingus staff.
Any new jobs would have been directly with the company if you did not come in and undercut.
Maybe there should be an IFALPA ban.
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Yes, but the first time one of these holes is cited as being crewed by what the public will believe is a 200 hour apprentice sitting in the right hand seat, there will be the inevitable clamour to stop putting the publics lives at risk. That is what has happened in the US, and inevitably it will eventually happen here.
If it is all about the quality of training, then why is it not as an adjunct to the experience requirement, rather than a complete substitute for it? Sorry rhetorical question, it is so that airlines can increase supply and thereby reduce costs in order to give themselves a commercial advantage. If they could register themselves in the Democratic Republic of Congo in order to take advantage of less stringent maintenance requirements and still operate in Europe, I don't doubt that one of the usual culprits would already have taken the lead.
What is so special about 200 hour pilots other than the fact they are desperate, cheap and readily available, that requires them to be flying in the right seat of a commercial airliner? It is not as if there is any shortage of experience in the marketplace. It is simply that if you eliminate this source of airline First Officers, that excess becomes significantly reduced as does the practice of diluting salaries to reflect the use of inexperience.
You are right, in that eliminating anyone with less than 1500 hours (in whatever type of aircraft) will not improve safety or stop accidents happening. However that won't matter in the publics or the legislators perception. Sky News and the Daily mail will be screaming from their pulpits "why are inexperienced pilots paying to sit in the right seat, or being utilized as cheap or contractual labour?"
I am not criticising whatever your airline does. It does this because it is allowed to do this, and therefore the fault rests squarely with the regulator. As this practice has spread throughout the industry so the terms and conditions for career pilots has been reduced. Your company is not valiantly trying to create jobs "for pilots who would otherwise be unemployed" it is doing what all companies do, that being to grow and maximize profits. It is fighting in a predatory and highly competitive marketplace. It is doing what it feels it needs to do, and can get away with to give itself a competitive edge. No, of course that isn't evil, that is simply business. Nevertheless busineses need regulation, and the use of practices that undermine the livelihood of people who do regard this as a full time career isn't going to meet with much support.
It is all probably academic in any event. I doubt Mr O'Leary painted "Say yes to the Lisbon treaty" on some of his 737's recently because of his love for the European Union.
If it is all about the quality of training, then why is it not as an adjunct to the experience requirement, rather than a complete substitute for it? Sorry rhetorical question, it is so that airlines can increase supply and thereby reduce costs in order to give themselves a commercial advantage. If they could register themselves in the Democratic Republic of Congo in order to take advantage of less stringent maintenance requirements and still operate in Europe, I don't doubt that one of the usual culprits would already have taken the lead.
What is so special about 200 hour pilots other than the fact they are desperate, cheap and readily available, that requires them to be flying in the right seat of a commercial airliner? It is not as if there is any shortage of experience in the marketplace. It is simply that if you eliminate this source of airline First Officers, that excess becomes significantly reduced as does the practice of diluting salaries to reflect the use of inexperience.
You are right, in that eliminating anyone with less than 1500 hours (in whatever type of aircraft) will not improve safety or stop accidents happening. However that won't matter in the publics or the legislators perception. Sky News and the Daily mail will be screaming from their pulpits "why are inexperienced pilots paying to sit in the right seat, or being utilized as cheap or contractual labour?"
I am not criticising whatever your airline does. It does this because it is allowed to do this, and therefore the fault rests squarely with the regulator. As this practice has spread throughout the industry so the terms and conditions for career pilots has been reduced. Your company is not valiantly trying to create jobs "for pilots who would otherwise be unemployed" it is doing what all companies do, that being to grow and maximize profits. It is fighting in a predatory and highly competitive marketplace. It is doing what it feels it needs to do, and can get away with to give itself a competitive edge. No, of course that isn't evil, that is simply business. Nevertheless busineses need regulation, and the use of practices that undermine the livelihood of people who do regard this as a full time career isn't going to meet with much support.
It is all probably academic in any event. I doubt Mr O'Leary painted "Say yes to the Lisbon treaty" on some of his 737's recently because of his love for the European Union.
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So despite all the criticism, not a single person who disagrees with me is denying the basic facts that I have stated - this is simply a union-busting exercise that brings not a single real job to the aviation world. It merely takes jobs from Aer Lingus pilots. Once again, I invite informed discussion from anyone who disagrees with my take on this to help deliver me from my terrible misunderstanding. I suspect I may be waiting a long time.
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That rather depends on how long airlines survive taking on huge losses. In the end they go bust, a la excel, and I'm sure Ryanair are sharpening their knives in the wings as they hope for Aer Lingus to fall over. However that is not the case, because the deal with Aeu will enable them to reallocate resources, cut costs and thus save far more jobs in the long term.
Sorry, but Ezyland, Virgin and everyone else(except astraeus) has cut jobs, cut aircraft, and cut salaries.
We have employed pilots, maintained our salaries, and taken on new planes- and not just the Aer Lingus ones either.
Better to keep more people at less money than no people at all.
When things get better, people will get more money, and they may choose to move on. Good luck to them. They deserve it. In the meantime we are busy employing cabin crew and pilots. Cant see the problem. its the EU, and labour is mobile, as it should be.
Sorry, but Ezyland, Virgin and everyone else(except astraeus) has cut jobs, cut aircraft, and cut salaries.
We have employed pilots, maintained our salaries, and taken on new planes- and not just the Aer Lingus ones either.
Better to keep more people at less money than no people at all.
When things get better, people will get more money, and they may choose to move on. Good luck to them. They deserve it. In the meantime we are busy employing cabin crew and pilots. Cant see the problem. its the EU, and labour is mobile, as it should be.
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Erm, before the scheme ended after 9/11, how many BA cadet F/Os started flying BA jets with 200 hours? And how many of these ended up as the smoking holes you mention? Right people, right training is what matters, not just taking those who can afford to pay for the privelidge.
And no, I wasn't a BA cadet.
And no, I wasn't a BA cadet.
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None that I am aware of. The point was what will likely happen when an accident occurs that involves a 200 hour pilot, not that it may be caused by the presence of one. The Hamble scheme was very much a graduate and extremely selective programme that came with a highly structured monitoring programme. There was a career progression that allowed successful graduates to embark on a normal B.A career structure and salary scale. Its scope and result clearly wasn't used as a method of shoehorning warm bodies into the right hand seat at low or no cost. It was a very real cost for the company, such that it was eventually contracted out to established commercial flight training schools, with the company bearing the cost of the graduates progression.
"Right training" as you put it, is always what matters, however I cannot see how that should be a substitute for an experience base of 1500 hours and a full ATPL as well. This is a new revenue stream for the companies that have exploited the "Hamble factor" into an art form.
Aztruck, I don't know if this is your primary and only source of income, but I would be surprised that you would be so cavalier in your comments if it was. If you have a pension from another company or another source of income, of course you don't mind working for degraded terms and conditions, who would?
"Right training" as you put it, is always what matters, however I cannot see how that should be a substitute for an experience base of 1500 hours and a full ATPL as well. This is a new revenue stream for the companies that have exploited the "Hamble factor" into an art form.
Aztruck, I don't know if this is your primary and only source of income, but I would be surprised that you would be so cavalier in your comments if it was. If you have a pension from another company or another source of income, of course you don't mind working for degraded terms and conditions, who would?
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Ok. Jobs for life. They dont exist anymore, although there was a fiction that they once did, along with gold plated pensions, seniority schemes and subsidised staff canteens.
Even the Civil service is about to get its comeuppance, about time seeing as it is subsidised by every other poor wretch that pays outrageous levels of UK tax.
85k a year for an airline Captain seems fair. 100k starts to become a bit daft, though if someone was daft enough to offer ......
Extra qualifications garner more dosh, TRI, TRE, line trainer etc etc just as it should be.
Yes some folk pay more, and seniority often creates ludicrous differentials, akin to those NHS consultants who turn up twice a month in return for vast salaries, swan off in their Bentleys, leaving the Junior doctors to drown in a sea of casualties.
Astraeus is not a seniority based airline, which system is now in any case indefensible under EU law.
When we had a TRTO along the lines that you so disparage, it ran smoothly and provided a steady stream of Pilots to ourselves and many other airlines, most of whom are Captains by now.
When the upturn comes, I'm sure there will be upward pressure on wages, especially for experienced Pilots, and we shall see how many leave to take more money or the perception of a better lifestyle or prestige in working for a Flag carrier.
I'm sure some will, but then again, I'm sure some will see the positive side of staying with Astraeus.
Meantime, more Pilots, more cabin crew, and more aircraft
Even the Civil service is about to get its comeuppance, about time seeing as it is subsidised by every other poor wretch that pays outrageous levels of UK tax.
85k a year for an airline Captain seems fair. 100k starts to become a bit daft, though if someone was daft enough to offer ......
Extra qualifications garner more dosh, TRI, TRE, line trainer etc etc just as it should be.
Yes some folk pay more, and seniority often creates ludicrous differentials, akin to those NHS consultants who turn up twice a month in return for vast salaries, swan off in their Bentleys, leaving the Junior doctors to drown in a sea of casualties.
Astraeus is not a seniority based airline, which system is now in any case indefensible under EU law.
When we had a TRTO along the lines that you so disparage, it ran smoothly and provided a steady stream of Pilots to ourselves and many other airlines, most of whom are Captains by now.
When the upturn comes, I'm sure there will be upward pressure on wages, especially for experienced Pilots, and we shall see how many leave to take more money or the perception of a better lifestyle or prestige in working for a Flag carrier.
I'm sure some will, but then again, I'm sure some will see the positive side of staying with Astraeus.
Meantime, more Pilots, more cabin crew, and more aircraft
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Disagree with your there aztruck
Why should pilots, who are in charge of hundreds of lives each week, be paid poorly for their job? Why should pilots, as a group, not aspire to a job which can be described as a career? Why do you think 100k for a captain is so ridiculous? Lawyers, accountants, bankers (not rhyming slang), doctors, and any number of other similarly highly skilled and regarded professions pay their professionals 100k + regularly, and apart from doctors any of those guys who have a bad day can go home for a glass of wine. If you have a bad day you'll be providing the world's biggest barbeque for whatever village or town you happen to plough into.
Management would love pilots to be on minimum wage, have no T&C's and have no limitations. They see us a high paid help (I would suggest the same about the managers). If they want to fly 170 people into Zurich on a rainy, sh*tty day with windshear, cloud to minimums and the other regular winter occurrences, they are welcome to try but I have found that management nerve often falters when it comes to actually showing some balls (also, of course, they wouldn't know how to move the seat in the flight deck or 'pointy end', to the uninitiated). They would also have a tough time understanding anything that I'm saying. I tend to find that supreme ignorance is difficult to overcome.
Management, if you are not one of them already, have no comprehension that doing our job well is what keeps the reputation of their airline, what keeps passengers calm during absurd weather conditions, what keeps 'their' (I use the word sparingly) $70 million aeroplane from becoming aforementioned barbeque. They, for their part, are welcome to keep their executive leather chair, mahogany desk and painful egos, but I expect them to respect the people who are the only two accountable for the passengers who pay their salaries. And if they don't I will fight to keep the T&C's which you seem to think are ill-deserved.
I have never disembarked and heard any of the passengers saying 'thank god for the financial director, he did a great job there'.
Yes some folk pay more, and seniority often creates ludicrous differentials, akin to those NHS consultants who turn up twice a month in return for vast salaries, swan off in their Bentleys, leaving the Junior doctors to drown in a sea of casualties.
Can you just clarify your point there? Do you mean the consultant, who started off as a junior doctor, and earned the crappy wages working the long hours doesn't deserve what he has achieved over his career, or that the junior doctor should be paid better and given a better lifestyle (T&C's, I suppose you could call them)?
Of course, if the NHS looked at itself and got rid of a percentage of its incompetent managers who, having no idea of what a hospital needs to run efficiently are of 'limited' use, instead of selfishly protecting its support staff (the non-operations staff, that is...), they would be able to hire more doctors, pay them the money they deserved and give them a good quality of life.
Of course the same goes for the MoD, schools, social care, the list goes on and includes airlines.
Rant over. I may have gone off on a tangent at some point, but I feel better now
Why should pilots, who are in charge of hundreds of lives each week, be paid poorly for their job? Why should pilots, as a group, not aspire to a job which can be described as a career? Why do you think 100k for a captain is so ridiculous? Lawyers, accountants, bankers (not rhyming slang), doctors, and any number of other similarly highly skilled and regarded professions pay their professionals 100k + regularly, and apart from doctors any of those guys who have a bad day can go home for a glass of wine. If you have a bad day you'll be providing the world's biggest barbeque for whatever village or town you happen to plough into.
Management would love pilots to be on minimum wage, have no T&C's and have no limitations. They see us a high paid help (I would suggest the same about the managers). If they want to fly 170 people into Zurich on a rainy, sh*tty day with windshear, cloud to minimums and the other regular winter occurrences, they are welcome to try but I have found that management nerve often falters when it comes to actually showing some balls (also, of course, they wouldn't know how to move the seat in the flight deck or 'pointy end', to the uninitiated). They would also have a tough time understanding anything that I'm saying. I tend to find that supreme ignorance is difficult to overcome.
Management, if you are not one of them already, have no comprehension that doing our job well is what keeps the reputation of their airline, what keeps passengers calm during absurd weather conditions, what keeps 'their' (I use the word sparingly) $70 million aeroplane from becoming aforementioned barbeque. They, for their part, are welcome to keep their executive leather chair, mahogany desk and painful egos, but I expect them to respect the people who are the only two accountable for the passengers who pay their salaries. And if they don't I will fight to keep the T&C's which you seem to think are ill-deserved.
I have never disembarked and heard any of the passengers saying 'thank god for the financial director, he did a great job there'.
Yes some folk pay more, and seniority often creates ludicrous differentials, akin to those NHS consultants who turn up twice a month in return for vast salaries, swan off in their Bentleys, leaving the Junior doctors to drown in a sea of casualties.
Can you just clarify your point there? Do you mean the consultant, who started off as a junior doctor, and earned the crappy wages working the long hours doesn't deserve what he has achieved over his career, or that the junior doctor should be paid better and given a better lifestyle (T&C's, I suppose you could call them)?
Of course, if the NHS looked at itself and got rid of a percentage of its incompetent managers who, having no idea of what a hospital needs to run efficiently are of 'limited' use, instead of selfishly protecting its support staff (the non-operations staff, that is...), they would be able to hire more doctors, pay them the money they deserved and give them a good quality of life.
Of course the same goes for the MoD, schools, social care, the list goes on and includes airlines.
Rant over. I may have gone off on a tangent at some point, but I feel better now
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The issue here is not about BA or EasyJet... Nobody has a problem with a competitive company entering a market place and competing and winning routes etc like EasyJet have done..
The issue is that AerLingus already have an operation in place in Gatwick, they have enough pilots and aeroplanes based there... Astraeus are being used to undercut pay and conditions which are already in place at AerLingus. Have you looked at the contracts for positions with Astraeus at Gatwick? Its all part of this race to the bottom that we have all been dragged into. Aerlingus do not need more pilots to be able to operate the LGW routes, the only reason Astraeus have been contracted in, is to operate routes and aid Aerlingus set up a UK AOC to have a stick to beat ROI pilots with on there terms and conditions.
Why wouldnt astraeus management take the easy cash that comes with such a deal... Unfortunately so many pilots are out of work at the moment in the EU market, so why wouldnt these pilots take the jobs at Astraeus... AerLingus management have spotted the weakness and used Astreus to capitalise on the situation.
The bottom line is
Every Pilot Astraeus hire to fly green aeroplanes from London Gatwick is directly taking the job of pilot in Aerlingus who is already flying these green machines... so when there is redundancy announcements at Aerlingus just rememeber that Astraeus pilots are taking the EI pilots jobs and doing the same work for a lower rate, Airline management are succeeding in pitching pilots against eachother ,its a slippery slope and its gonna turn what was a career into whats quickly turning into a job.
The issue is that AerLingus already have an operation in place in Gatwick, they have enough pilots and aeroplanes based there... Astraeus are being used to undercut pay and conditions which are already in place at AerLingus. Have you looked at the contracts for positions with Astraeus at Gatwick? Its all part of this race to the bottom that we have all been dragged into. Aerlingus do not need more pilots to be able to operate the LGW routes, the only reason Astraeus have been contracted in, is to operate routes and aid Aerlingus set up a UK AOC to have a stick to beat ROI pilots with on there terms and conditions.
Why wouldnt astraeus management take the easy cash that comes with such a deal... Unfortunately so many pilots are out of work at the moment in the EU market, so why wouldnt these pilots take the jobs at Astraeus... AerLingus management have spotted the weakness and used Astreus to capitalise on the situation.
The bottom line is
Every Pilot Astraeus hire to fly green aeroplanes from London Gatwick is directly taking the job of pilot in Aerlingus who is already flying these green machines... so when there is redundancy announcements at Aerlingus just rememeber that Astraeus pilots are taking the EI pilots jobs and doing the same work for a lower rate, Airline management are succeeding in pitching pilots against eachother ,its a slippery slope and its gonna turn what was a career into whats quickly turning into a job.
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Nothing wrong with paying the going rate for skill and talent.
Fireman, train drivers ,soldiers, nurses, all have the above in abundance and many lives in their hands under far more stressful conditions than the average Pilot encounters on a daily basis. There is a considerable difference in their salaries, and even more variance from country to country for doing the same job.
Military pilots are less well paid than civilians. Are they mugs? Perhaps they have a choice? Many have told me that they consiider civilian flying boring at the side of their Military experience,so perhaps people's expectations of t and c's as you put it vary considerably.
Back to the opening statement however.
How do you calculate the"going rate"? At the moment rates have been pushed down due to the (hopefully) temporary oversupply of Pilots and oversupply of seats.
Honestly, what do you expect to happen? The only way the industry will survive is if commonsense does prevail, and real market forces determine wages and other commodities. There are still gross international distortions created by state support in several airlines which condemn pilots to a life of uncertainty.
Astraeus is actually making sense in the mad world of airlines.
Fireman, train drivers ,soldiers, nurses, all have the above in abundance and many lives in their hands under far more stressful conditions than the average Pilot encounters on a daily basis. There is a considerable difference in their salaries, and even more variance from country to country for doing the same job.
Military pilots are less well paid than civilians. Are they mugs? Perhaps they have a choice? Many have told me that they consiider civilian flying boring at the side of their Military experience,so perhaps people's expectations of t and c's as you put it vary considerably.
Back to the opening statement however.
How do you calculate the"going rate"? At the moment rates have been pushed down due to the (hopefully) temporary oversupply of Pilots and oversupply of seats.
Honestly, what do you expect to happen? The only way the industry will survive is if commonsense does prevail, and real market forces determine wages and other commodities. There are still gross international distortions created by state support in several airlines which condemn pilots to a life of uncertainty.
Astraeus is actually making sense in the mad world of airlines.
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Astraeus are hiring pilots to fly another airlines machines on lower terms and conditions a few weeks before the said airline wants to declare a pilot surplus and make up to 100 pilots redundant, this makes sense to you? It makes sense to an accountant, infact perfect sense on a balance sheet, thats as far as that sense goes though.