Unpaid Leave
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2008
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From: Left of the centerline
Unpaid Leave
Just a quick question for the legal beagles out there. Unpaid leave .. Is a company able to impose that upon an employee without his or her agreement or as it is a change in terms and conditions does it need to agreed by the said employee.
Thoughts and experiences greatly appreciated.
Thoughts and experiences greatly appreciated.
Joined: Jul 2009
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From: LFFH
I'm taking it this post is in relation to Jet2 and its idea that the 737 fleet will have unpaid leave imposed upon it?
BALPA is the only way forward for the pilot workforce as a whole, We are being done over by Meeson, Doubtfire and Tweed.
If we establish representation ASAP we will at least have the legal backing to fight them on some level terms.
BALPA is the only way forward for the pilot workforce as a whole, We are being done over by Meeson, Doubtfire and Tweed.
If we establish representation ASAP we will at least have the legal backing to fight them on some level terms.
Joined: Nov 2008
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From: Yeadon
A company cannot materially change your conditions without you agreeing to it. Material change is something which can be measured in monetary terms. For example, taking away medical insurance, holidays, or of course refusing to pay you for x-number of days, weeks, or months, i.e. enforcing unpaid leave on aircrew.
Three options are available to the employee:
Three options are available to the employee:
- go along with the employer’s proposal;
- refuse to work under the new terms and put the onus on the employer to take appropriate action;
- reject the proposals but to continue to work, under protest, under the new terms, whilst reserving all rights and perhaps bringing court or tribunal procedures in the event that a negotiated agreement cannot be reached
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2008
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From: Left of the centerline
What an odd situation, they are desperate not to have BALPA as the pilots representation however given the discussion above no one could make a decision on whether this is good or bad, legal or illegal without seeking advice from an employment specialist. Where is the only employment law specialist available to pilots at the moment, yes you got it BALPA. So to get this employment law advice what have you got to do ?join BALPA. So now the company in question will have more of its pilots joining a union they dont wish to have even in the building because they have tried to take a sledgehammer to force the work force into a situation.....Given the events of that past weeks regarding their crew council has the company brought the union upon itself ??
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From: エリア88
Where is the only employment law specialist available to pilots at the moment, yes you got it BALPA.
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From: Yeadon
ASFKAP is right. If you do nothing (i.e. no written rejection of the change), you will have deemed to accept the new conditions in a subsequent tribunal. The length of time under which you 'accept' it by inaction is a bit of a grey area, but typically you can argue under the length of time you need to give notice (for flightdeck this would be 4 months). However, to be on the safe side, I would not leave it more than 1 month due to interpretation of contract law.
Joined: Jul 2009
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From: LFFH
I too am hoping that this is just rumour, but have a feeling that it is probably true.
We all have mortgages, loans etc to pay and with enforced unpaid leave these will become hard for us all to pay.
On the other hand the company has had record profits for the year, alot of this is due to hardworking people who have given alot to jet2, many of us including our families have sacrificed much for the good of the company.
I'm thankful i'm in BALPA as i'll still have the legal advice to hand at short notice as and when it will be required.
If your not in it join as a years subs will get you all the advice and backing you need for less than an hour with a high street brief.
Look upon it as insurance. Your probably going to be needing it!
We all have mortgages, loans etc to pay and with enforced unpaid leave these will become hard for us all to pay.
On the other hand the company has had record profits for the year, alot of this is due to hardworking people who have given alot to jet2, many of us including our families have sacrificed much for the good of the company.
I'm thankful i'm in BALPA as i'll still have the legal advice to hand at short notice as and when it will be required.
If your not in it join as a years subs will get you all the advice and backing you need for less than an hour with a high street brief.
Look upon it as insurance. Your probably going to be needing it!
Joined: Feb 2009
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From: Mostly in a tube, taxi or hotel.
A company cannot materially change your conditions without you agreeing to it.
I hope the above are only rumors but I have heard though galley and crewroom fm that there are meetings around early August to discuss winter tactics..........
In the meantime, I hope those in the company who are anti-BAPLA or just unsure if they should join will at least take a little time to weigh up the pro's and con's of membership rather than just sitting on the fence hoping it'll all go away.
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: uk
A company can change your terms and conditions, providing they give the appropriate notice period. What you choose to do about it is outlined perfectly by ASFDAK. Enforced unpaid leave however can easily be argued to be constructive dismissal, as it does not constitute paid employment, and is therefore not employment.
Joined: Feb 2009
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From: UK
I can see the scene ..........
ID stroking PMs brow after one of his (many) fits, resting PMs head on the lapel of his cheap grey Mr Buyright suit. Phillip sobbing, 'I've treated them like !!!! all these years and this is how they repay me, the ungrateful bastards', 'you agree with me don't you Ian, boo hooo'.
ID stroking PMs brow after one of his (many) fits, resting PMs head on the lapel of his cheap grey Mr Buyright suit. Phillip sobbing, 'I've treated them like !!!! all these years and this is how they repay me, the ungrateful bastards', 'you agree with me don't you Ian, boo hooo'.
Joined: Feb 2009
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From: Mostly in a tube, taxi or hotel.
Prawn - You forgot to mention that Mega Bitch would be fanning PM with GDF leaflets and re-written staff contracts to keep him cool.
God only knows what T would be doing - licking his boots clean I expect!!
God only knows what T would be doing - licking his boots clean I expect!!
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From: LFFH
Unfortunately with Meeson handing day today running of his staff to HR he has in turn lost control of the company.
The pilot group has been particularly hard hit due to lack of effective management at all levels within the ops dept. T just does as he is told and will screw flightdeck over at all ends as he is scared of F.
She in turn doesn't have the ability or people skills to run the show effectively, it would appear that ruling by fear is her only skill.
The fuel KPI is yet again another poorly thought out and poorly initiated idea just like FWZ. As fuel is now a KPI some pilots are going to running around on plog fuel when plog is just not going to be enough.
What was once not so long ago a fantastic place to work is now a fear led organisation that knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
Well dont T well done F, I like many others are just wondering when you are going to realise what you have done!!!
The pilot group has been particularly hard hit due to lack of effective management at all levels within the ops dept. T just does as he is told and will screw flightdeck over at all ends as he is scared of F.
She in turn doesn't have the ability or people skills to run the show effectively, it would appear that ruling by fear is her only skill.
The fuel KPI is yet again another poorly thought out and poorly initiated idea just like FWZ. As fuel is now a KPI some pilots are going to running around on plog fuel when plog is just not going to be enough.
What was once not so long ago a fantastic place to work is now a fear led organisation that knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
Well dont T well done F, I like many others are just wondering when you are going to realise what you have done!!!
Joined: Feb 2009
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From: UK
That mental defective F has been moved to Jetpoo holidays has she not?
All this rubbish about 'we're looking at all options' was the same thing they said before our summer leave policy came out.
Trouble is there's not much more that they can take off us .. that's their problem!
All this rubbish about 'we're looking at all options' was the same thing they said before our summer leave policy came out.
Trouble is there's not much more that they can take off us .. that's their problem!
Joined: Jun 2009
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From: On the move!
Careful, careful peeps. You all must know that the PPrune is morning briefing for the management. It seems that a lot has slipped away from the happier days of Channel Express and the Jersey paper run. Don't forget that timing is everything, so if you are feeling the need to do something positive soon, then you may be too late already! Either way this goes I wish you all the best of luck and hope that the rumours are nothing but that, alas...........
Your friend in the desert!
Your friend in the desert!