With experience, is Ryanair really that bad?
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With experience, is Ryanair really that bad?
I've read with horror the conditions faced by Ryanair new-starts, particularly the pay-less months and refusal to award leave, but most importantly the cost of the initial 6 months.
However, looking at the other end of the spectrum, once command is achieved, and thousands of hours with the company logged, is it really that bad?
Granted its a rough road to that position, but the pay at that level seems very fair and obviously, no overnights. At least compared to short-haul skippers on other lines, does the initial struggle pay off?
However, looking at the other end of the spectrum, once command is achieved, and thousands of hours with the company logged, is it really that bad?
Granted its a rough road to that position, but the pay at that level seems very fair and obviously, no overnights. At least compared to short-haul skippers on other lines, does the initial struggle pay off?
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Is it really that bad? yes it is. The job with RYR for me was most disappointing, and I joined with 7000 hrs and type rated.
The management in Dublin have taken all of the enjoyment out of the job and insist on a set of standard operating procedures that does not let you see the "wood for the trees". The secondary airports they operate into will eventually result in a serious incident/accident.
Flying for me needs to be enjoyable, with Ryanair I do not remember enjoying one single duty. Yes the cash was good but you earn it in this awful airline and having to work for such an arrogant CEO then this "ASDA/ALDI" of airlines was not for me!
Before Ryanair I had a fond romantic view of the Irish (River Dance,Guiness,Dublin) after meeting this bunch my views are much changed!
Do yourself a BIG favour and give this bunch a miss!!
Now I work for a Large Biz jet operator where the flying is challenging and you are both respected and rewarded.
Life is to short to work for the dreadful Ryanair - as simple as that!
HEMEL
The management in Dublin have taken all of the enjoyment out of the job and insist on a set of standard operating procedures that does not let you see the "wood for the trees". The secondary airports they operate into will eventually result in a serious incident/accident.
Flying for me needs to be enjoyable, with Ryanair I do not remember enjoying one single duty. Yes the cash was good but you earn it in this awful airline and having to work for such an arrogant CEO then this "ASDA/ALDI" of airlines was not for me!
Before Ryanair I had a fond romantic view of the Irish (River Dance,Guiness,Dublin) after meeting this bunch my views are much changed!
Do yourself a BIG favour and give this bunch a miss!!
Now I work for a Large Biz jet operator where the flying is challenging and you are both respected and rewarded.
Life is to short to work for the dreadful Ryanair - as simple as that!
HEMEL
Last edited by hemel; 8th Mar 2009 at 10:49.
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As usual, the truth lies somewhere between these two totally disparate views.
So the answer to your 2 Q is . . . . . . . MAYBE.
In all honesty, it depends a lot on what you were used to, what your expectations are, whether you can be lucky and keep your head below the parapet, and very very importantly where you are based and where that figures in relation to where you want to be based.
If you value being home every night, you are based where you want, you are fairly thick skinned, and you don't upset someone in authority, it is actually OK.
Aircraft are all new (some very) maintenance is good, crew (even if some lack experience) are professional with very good SOP's.
On the other hand there is certainly no feel-good touchy feely stuff, and many people you have to deal with both within the company (and indeed some of our loyal
customers )are pretty abrasive, but then they are nurtured that way from the moment they walk into the office /airport.
If you don't mind having a spade redefined as an
shovel and you are realistic in what you expect, having done your homework here, you should have no problem with what you find.
So the answer to your 2 Q is . . . . . . . MAYBE.
In all honesty, it depends a lot on what you were used to, what your expectations are, whether you can be lucky and keep your head below the parapet, and very very importantly where you are based and where that figures in relation to where you want to be based.
If you value being home every night, you are based where you want, you are fairly thick skinned, and you don't upset someone in authority, it is actually OK.
Aircraft are all new (some very) maintenance is good, crew (even if some lack experience) are professional with very good SOP's.
On the other hand there is certainly no feel-good touchy feely stuff, and many people you have to deal with both within the company (and indeed some of our loyal
customers )are pretty abrasive, but then they are nurtured that way from the moment they walk into the office /airport.If you don't mind having a spade redefined as an
shovel and you are realistic in what you expect, having done your homework here, you should have no problem with what you find.
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Is it really that bad? yes it is. The job with RYR for me was most disappointing, and I joined with 7000 hrs and type rated.
you are based where you want,
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One would want to be absolutely insane even applying to this company that charges you £50 to apply and then proceed to rob you blind once an employee.Do yourself a favour,in the words of craig david "I'm walking away"...
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david craig / craig david . . . grim, you are wasted in this profession.
Anyway, real reason I posted - thank you so much for choosing the username 'strawberriesfield'. Always, without exception, makes me smile, and more often than not laugh as well
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Still on the RTC so can only give a look at the 24months in period.
Money is good-ish, if I was an 21 year old with zero debts and parents had paid my way through all my training I would be thinking this is awesome, work maybe 10days a month max, pay my £500 a month type rating loan and take home £2500ish after tax to blow on the 18-22year old trolly dollys getting them into bed and buying a new 318i
as early 30's man with house and training debts for next 3years as well as type rating the money left is same as a crap job in a call centre, but lifestlye is miles better as is the job, so I guess thats a plus as prospects after 3years are much much better than dixons call centre!
you are a number and an expendable number, dont do your job right and I dont see a slap on the wrist, I see out the door and no thanks for your hard work and effort.
getting the right base makes life at home nice, get the wrong base and your not really living your life how you want, jumpseating home every week, spending half your time on standby not earning in the place you dont want to be,,, some months are good, only 1 standby in 5 days, some are 3 in 5 days, this time of year seems to be the latter, not sure if thats seasonal or because they continue to bring in new cadets? again I suspect the latter!.
going in the sim on a brookfield means paying for hotels out your own pocket, get stuck down route due tech or duty time or what ever means minimal rest in the nearest or cheapest hotel they can find and if theres no restaurant open,, tough!, get a taxi at your own cost because your now off duty! and its not there responcability, its like been off duty back at base! yea apart from your car is in the carpark and your house/accomidation is already lined up to cater for been there.
aircraft are new and safe, if something goes wrong then the SOP's are very good and follow the numbers should see you back safe on the ground again to tell the tail, not sure you would be paid though as your paid sector block hours and if you come back you did not compleate the sector! lol,, i may be wrong but again I recon not.
Its a very organised company and things do run smooth, rosta is stable 5/4 and pretty much set in stone, shame the 5 on are not 5 on though! but at 85Euros an hour the 45euro line trainer is cheaper than me.
ticket to getting the good money would seem to be make command, then LTC then train on nearly every flight and work the 900hours a year, sit in the right seat after a few hours and your never going to buy that new 911!
its not my first flying job, but its my first in a Jet carrier, and I am mixed about it all, I would probably leave for elsewhere given the choice, but no where is hireing really, those that are have probably 100+ applicants for 1 job, and are they going to still be there in 12months? thankfully I do work outside of Ryanair that earns me good money and losing my flying job would not harm me finantialy, but I do want to continue flying and get a command and dont see it worth rocking the boat in the current climate.
hope that answers a few questions.
Money is good-ish, if I was an 21 year old with zero debts and parents had paid my way through all my training I would be thinking this is awesome, work maybe 10days a month max, pay my £500 a month type rating loan and take home £2500ish after tax to blow on the 18-22year old trolly dollys getting them into bed and buying a new 318i
as early 30's man with house and training debts for next 3years as well as type rating the money left is same as a crap job in a call centre, but lifestlye is miles better as is the job, so I guess thats a plus as prospects after 3years are much much better than dixons call centre!
you are a number and an expendable number, dont do your job right and I dont see a slap on the wrist, I see out the door and no thanks for your hard work and effort.
getting the right base makes life at home nice, get the wrong base and your not really living your life how you want, jumpseating home every week, spending half your time on standby not earning in the place you dont want to be,,, some months are good, only 1 standby in 5 days, some are 3 in 5 days, this time of year seems to be the latter, not sure if thats seasonal or because they continue to bring in new cadets? again I suspect the latter!.
going in the sim on a brookfield means paying for hotels out your own pocket, get stuck down route due tech or duty time or what ever means minimal rest in the nearest or cheapest hotel they can find and if theres no restaurant open,, tough!, get a taxi at your own cost because your now off duty! and its not there responcability, its like been off duty back at base! yea apart from your car is in the carpark and your house/accomidation is already lined up to cater for been there.
aircraft are new and safe, if something goes wrong then the SOP's are very good and follow the numbers should see you back safe on the ground again to tell the tail, not sure you would be paid though as your paid sector block hours and if you come back you did not compleate the sector! lol,, i may be wrong but again I recon not.
Its a very organised company and things do run smooth, rosta is stable 5/4 and pretty much set in stone, shame the 5 on are not 5 on though! but at 85Euros an hour the 45euro line trainer is cheaper than me.
ticket to getting the good money would seem to be make command, then LTC then train on nearly every flight and work the 900hours a year, sit in the right seat after a few hours and your never going to buy that new 911!
its not my first flying job, but its my first in a Jet carrier, and I am mixed about it all, I would probably leave for elsewhere given the choice, but no where is hireing really, those that are have probably 100+ applicants for 1 job, and are they going to still be there in 12months? thankfully I do work outside of Ryanair that earns me good money and losing my flying job would not harm me finantialy, but I do want to continue flying and get a command and dont see it worth rocking the boat in the current climate.
hope that answers a few questions.
Last edited by zerotohero; 8th Mar 2009 at 16:44.
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Whatever,
I earn enough to pay off my debts, rent an apartment (with a shared jacuzzi which noone else ever uses!), live and do the things I want to on the side.
And I'd rather walk away with half the net profit if it meant driving to the airport at stupid o' clock instead of a mundane call centre at 0800 on a rainy Monday morning...
Just my thoughts,
ta, ad
p.s. good post zerotohero, very well balanced. I'm 20, but unfortunately it's a shade dry of 'awesome' because I DO have stuff to pay off! Still great though. People moan about how it's no fun flying at Ryanair, well come on, take a reality check, you're paid to work, not have fun. And it's not that difficult to combine the two, we do all the time!
I earn enough to pay off my debts, rent an apartment (with a shared jacuzzi which noone else ever uses!), live and do the things I want to on the side.
And I'd rather walk away with half the net profit if it meant driving to the airport at stupid o' clock instead of a mundane call centre at 0800 on a rainy Monday morning...
Just my thoughts,
ta, ad
p.s. good post zerotohero, very well balanced. I'm 20, but unfortunately it's a shade dry of 'awesome' because I DO have stuff to pay off! Still great though. People moan about how it's no fun flying at Ryanair, well come on, take a reality check, you're paid to work, not have fun. And it's not that difficult to combine the two, we do all the time!
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I am not suggesting anything my learned friend, I wanted to make the point that such shannanigans could well go on in a jacuzzi, Champagne, cigar, cowboy hat, young lady....'arry monk!
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Neither of yer are far off the mark! 
Well fortunately my 'neighbours' are the elderly and the shy respectively, but then again, people falling into those catagories can be VERY surprising
Well fortunately my 'neighbours' are the elderly and the shy respectively, but then again, people falling into those catagories can be VERY surprising
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I wonder if there's some inverse correlation going on here, when compared to age... then again I've flown with Captains thrice my age who come out with some shockers! Come on guys, let's get these discussions going on the flight deck - I can't believe there are so many people relatively unhappy flying for FR, 99% of guys and girls I fly with love the job, albeit far from perfect.
It's all good fun at the end of the day, and you've gotta laugh.
Ha ha
It's all good fun at the end of the day, and you've gotta laugh.
Ha ha
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Hi South Coast,
Well, to me it seems there are a lot of hard feelings towards my airline's practices on this website, including employees of FR whom I probably fly with without realising it. That is a stark contrast to what I hear 'in the office', when the conversation takes on many levels - discussions about EASA, about our invidivual lives, how we got into flying, what mountains are over there are their specific microclimates, old stories of holidays and experiences we had where we're flying, stuff like that. But hardly ever any hard words against the company.
Is it perhaps because up there in the aeroplane on the small stretch across the Bay of Biscay, life is sunny and near perfect? And when we get home, we begin to realise what (or rather who) we're working for and it's not so great after all? Or are we simply scared that somehow, the CVR is being watched and any words 'out of line' will result in... 'action'?
Sometimes I don't understand it. It almost seems that there are two different worlds of pilots; the real pilots, and the PPRuNe pilots.
Thanks
Well, to me it seems there are a lot of hard feelings towards my airline's practices on this website, including employees of FR whom I probably fly with without realising it. That is a stark contrast to what I hear 'in the office', when the conversation takes on many levels - discussions about EASA, about our invidivual lives, how we got into flying, what mountains are over there are their specific microclimates, old stories of holidays and experiences we had where we're flying, stuff like that. But hardly ever any hard words against the company.
Is it perhaps because up there in the aeroplane on the small stretch across the Bay of Biscay, life is sunny and near perfect? And when we get home, we begin to realise what (or rather who) we're working for and it's not so great after all? Or are we simply scared that somehow, the CVR is being watched and any words 'out of line' will result in... 'action'?
Sometimes I don't understand it. It almost seems that there are two different worlds of pilots; the real pilots, and the PPRuNe pilots.
Thanks
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I know where you are coming from, there are some on here I can scarcely imagine dragging themselves out of bed at 0400 for an early, never mind doing it 5 days in a row for 4 sectors.
At the end of the day our esteemed leader wants to shaft us & pay us less,and this will continue until the collective awareness of the situation finally seeps into the grey matter & provokes a concerted unified response. God knows what it will take for that to happen, paying to go to the bog along with the punters ? (Oh & bring your own bog roll along with your water & sarnies ) yep that might do it 
.
Fortunately, from the brakes off to chocks on, most seem to be able to remember why they chose this profession, it is that & that alone , that makes the "daily grind" quite pleasurable in most cases.
(Oh BTW no correlation between "daily grind" & Reluctant's Jacuzzi should be inferred
)
At the end of the day our esteemed leader wants to shaft us & pay us less,and this will continue until the collective awareness of the situation finally seeps into the grey matter & provokes a concerted unified response. God knows what it will take for that to happen, paying to go to the bog along with the punters ? (Oh & bring your own bog roll along with your water & sarnies
) yep that might do it .Fortunately, from the brakes off to chocks on, most seem to be able to remember why they chose this profession, it is that & that alone , that makes the "daily grind" quite pleasurable in most cases.
(Oh BTW no correlation between "daily grind" & Reluctant's Jacuzzi should be inferred
)
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Here's something else I'd like to use to level the playing field somewhat -
The very last job I had prior to starting at Oxford was working in a service station on the M1. It was full time, and after tax I took about £700 a month, at least £300 of which I spent each month on taking my friends and family flying in a 172. It was an expensive aeroplane to hire, but it was worth it - very well maintained and the reassurance of a G1000 and fully instrument equipped 'just in case'. And I'm sure all of us know that 'feeling' when we take close family flying that says 'what if'? Anyway, so I had circa £400 each month, of which I managed to stash away £300 towards living expenses while training. The rest went on fuel for the motor and perhaps a few pub visits. And I paid (a lot) to fly an aeroplane which just about made 120 kts.
Contrast that to now - my net each month averages somewhere around the £3,000 mark (down a bit these days, but never mind that), and that will increase as the years go by. I receive that money in exchange for operating a flying machine capable of 470 kts at 37,000 feet very comfortably. I work in a clean, professional environment with professional (and friendly) people. I have a stable roster, and each month have a set of 'definite' days off. I am comfortable financially, and can easily afford what I owe and have a little hobby paragliding from Dunstable on the side.
Unfortunately I no longer fly light aeroplanes due to hours limitations and the fact that you have to fly reguarly to remain proficient in the eyes of most flying clubs. But I love GA, so no doubt some day I will be able to afford a half share or something in a nice little tourer (perhaps a Mooney?) to buzz about in at the weekends. I would do that for the joy, and the hours needn't be logged if that will break duty time. I am very able to plan my sleep cycles and know when I am safe to fly.
Life is exactly what you make it, and it's all relative. Perhaps if you'd flown for BA for ten years and came over to our little civilisation you might not like it very much, but for someone like myself, this is my first 'career' job, and I may end up staying here, who knows. You can spend all your time moaning about what you don't have, but I rather leave the news people to it and get on with enjoying my life. It's an amazing gift, and fundamentally, flight is a wonderful thing that we are fortunate enough to get paid for harnessing. Comapred to some employers, we may feel like we're on tenderhooks when flying, but so what? I'm all for strict SOPs, it's a serious business this and they help to keep complacency at bay, something I saw in people quite often in GA.
But hey, no two opinions are alike and we all view different things in different ways.
That's just my take on what I do
The very last job I had prior to starting at Oxford was working in a service station on the M1. It was full time, and after tax I took about £700 a month, at least £300 of which I spent each month on taking my friends and family flying in a 172. It was an expensive aeroplane to hire, but it was worth it - very well maintained and the reassurance of a G1000 and fully instrument equipped 'just in case'. And I'm sure all of us know that 'feeling' when we take close family flying that says 'what if'? Anyway, so I had circa £400 each month, of which I managed to stash away £300 towards living expenses while training. The rest went on fuel for the motor and perhaps a few pub visits. And I paid (a lot) to fly an aeroplane which just about made 120 kts.
Contrast that to now - my net each month averages somewhere around the £3,000 mark (down a bit these days, but never mind that), and that will increase as the years go by. I receive that money in exchange for operating a flying machine capable of 470 kts at 37,000 feet very comfortably. I work in a clean, professional environment with professional (and friendly) people. I have a stable roster, and each month have a set of 'definite' days off. I am comfortable financially, and can easily afford what I owe and have a little hobby paragliding from Dunstable on the side.
Unfortunately I no longer fly light aeroplanes due to hours limitations and the fact that you have to fly reguarly to remain proficient in the eyes of most flying clubs. But I love GA, so no doubt some day I will be able to afford a half share or something in a nice little tourer (perhaps a Mooney?) to buzz about in at the weekends. I would do that for the joy, and the hours needn't be logged if that will break duty time. I am very able to plan my sleep cycles and know when I am safe to fly.
Life is exactly what you make it, and it's all relative. Perhaps if you'd flown for BA for ten years and came over to our little civilisation you might not like it very much, but for someone like myself, this is my first 'career' job, and I may end up staying here, who knows. You can spend all your time moaning about what you don't have, but I rather leave the news people to it and get on with enjoying my life. It's an amazing gift, and fundamentally, flight is a wonderful thing that we are fortunate enough to get paid for harnessing. Comapred to some employers, we may feel like we're on tenderhooks when flying, but so what? I'm all for strict SOPs, it's a serious business this and they help to keep complacency at bay, something I saw in people quite often in GA.
But hey, no two opinions are alike and we all view different things in different ways.
That's just my take on what I do
