jet2 man 757 contract
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But Why?
With the demise of XL in sept last year and an abundance of very qualified B757/767 British pilots (some living with wives and children) in Manchester, why would this airline even consider an application from a european who has difficulty with the language and who may not even like the weather and leave after his first taste of boddingtons.
This global economy sucks,,,,, try getting a job in germany with Condor, the whole application is in german.
This global economy sucks,,,,, try getting a job in germany with Condor, the whole application is in german.
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Ah Julie it's called the free market economy: which is, of course, much free-er in the UK than anywhere else in Europe!!
Or in fact in the US or Canada, or Oz or NZ. Listen to how many "foreign" accents there are on the R/T with callsigns of UK reg aircraft and compare that with the national carriers of said countries!
Or in fact in the US or Canada, or Oz or NZ. Listen to how many "foreign" accents there are on the R/T with callsigns of UK reg aircraft and compare that with the national carriers of said countries!
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This question was posed at a BALPA conference a few years back, the gathered plebs were told that as English was the lingua franca of world business and consequently aviation, then most qualified fATPL/ATPL pilots should speak it to a certain degree of proficiency. Therefore English speaking countries are open to them (especially if they are EU citizens), unless the come from countries that can still go for the Green Card Lottery with the US (The UK isn't on the list because it is deemed that too many people of British decent already live there and the whole purpose was to diversify the population - Ireland is still on the list, nothing to do with the Kennedy's and significant Irish lobby in Congress .... don't get me started).
You apply for most (not all, including Italy) European countries and you are told unless you speak the local lingo then you are goosed. In the UK we can't use that old chestnut, however we watch other countries enforce a no foreign hire rule. No issue for the Dutch as they speak 23 languages from birth. We are lazy though so to a degree we have ourselves to blame.
However its a result of our imperial past, our colonisation of the world and the adoption of our language by the many and significantly the dominant power of the past 100 years. Also a lot of Tri-Rugby playing nations nationals are here on ancestry visas. Fair play to them, I hope to do the opposite in the future.
I see talk of Canadian pilots coming here for our summer season and reciprocation in the winter with TCX. Its saddening but its governed by the 2 overwhelming factors in aviation ... cost and risk.
I will never like this setup as how is it meant to foster UK talent, a portion of these 19,000 new pilots required by 2020 or other B/S I keep on reading in the press.
Lets look at what can British born and bred low houred pilots do?
I think in terms of the world industry the opportunity here is lower than most other 1st world, industrialised countries.
You apply for most (not all, including Italy) European countries and you are told unless you speak the local lingo then you are goosed. In the UK we can't use that old chestnut, however we watch other countries enforce a no foreign hire rule. No issue for the Dutch as they speak 23 languages from birth. We are lazy though so to a degree we have ourselves to blame.
However its a result of our imperial past, our colonisation of the world and the adoption of our language by the many and significantly the dominant power of the past 100 years. Also a lot of Tri-Rugby playing nations nationals are here on ancestry visas. Fair play to them, I hope to do the opposite in the future.
I see talk of Canadian pilots coming here for our summer season and reciprocation in the winter with TCX. Its saddening but its governed by the 2 overwhelming factors in aviation ... cost and risk.
I will never like this setup as how is it meant to foster UK talent, a portion of these 19,000 new pilots required by 2020 or other B/S I keep on reading in the press.
Lets look at what can British born and bred low houred pilots do?
I think in terms of the world industry the opportunity here is lower than most other 1st world, industrialised countries.
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...why would this airline even consider an application from a european who has difficulty with the language and who may not even like the weather and leave after his first taste of boddingtons.
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Off Topic.
As one of those who speaks 23 languages from birth and flies for a UK airline I think I am qualified to reply to Julie and Slim Shady.
I try to understand their view of the whole situation with non Brits flying for British airlines while not a lot of Brits fly for Dutch, German, Spanish etc. carriers.
However as has been said by Dreamshiner a lot of it is by your own making. (not trying to offend anybody, please let me explain.) In Holland you start with basic English lessons from the age of 10. From then on, for me, it has always been a mandatory subject till leaving school at the age of 20. At college besides English you get French and German which you can drop after 1 or 2 years if you choose to. In the UK (as far as I understand) you get a similar deal as in that you have a few foreign languages which you can drop if you choose to.
As I haven't got a talent for languages I dropped my German and French as soon as possible. After finishing my flight training I choose to apply to Lufthansa and got invited for the selection. However as my German was way below what was required I took the latest possible selection date and in the meantime did a full course in German. They don't necessarily want to see that you are fluent in the language but that you at least give it a try.
So the system for the guy's and girls from the continent is exactly the same as for the Brits. If we want to apply to any airline outside our own homecountry we also have to learn the lingo. If you are to lazy to put in the work then don't blame it on the guy's and girls who have put in the effort.
So I am very sorry, but your comments that the global economy sucks is bullsh*t.
And by the way, even while being Dutch it is still impossible for me to apply to KLM. But thats a different discussion which has done the rounds many times on here.
As one of those who speaks 23 languages from birth and flies for a UK airline I think I am qualified to reply to Julie and Slim Shady.
I try to understand their view of the whole situation with non Brits flying for British airlines while not a lot of Brits fly for Dutch, German, Spanish etc. carriers.
However as has been said by Dreamshiner a lot of it is by your own making. (not trying to offend anybody, please let me explain.) In Holland you start with basic English lessons from the age of 10. From then on, for me, it has always been a mandatory subject till leaving school at the age of 20. At college besides English you get French and German which you can drop after 1 or 2 years if you choose to. In the UK (as far as I understand) you get a similar deal as in that you have a few foreign languages which you can drop if you choose to.
As I haven't got a talent for languages I dropped my German and French as soon as possible. After finishing my flight training I choose to apply to Lufthansa and got invited for the selection. However as my German was way below what was required I took the latest possible selection date and in the meantime did a full course in German. They don't necessarily want to see that you are fluent in the language but that you at least give it a try.
So the system for the guy's and girls from the continent is exactly the same as for the Brits. If we want to apply to any airline outside our own homecountry we also have to learn the lingo. If you are to lazy to put in the work then don't blame it on the guy's and girls who have put in the effort.
So I am very sorry, but your comments that the global economy sucks is bullsh*t.
And by the way, even while being Dutch it is still impossible for me to apply to KLM. But thats a different discussion which has done the rounds many times on here.
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Given the history Jet2 has had with foreign pilots, you would have thought they would have learned from the hard lessons of the past.
It seems not. I guess the foreigner must be cheaper. It is only about cost. Nothing else matters for Jet2.
It seems not. I guess the foreigner must be cheaper. It is only about cost. Nothing else matters for Jet2.
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To be fair,
the guys that left us in the lurch last year -- it was NOTHING to do with their nationality, it was their PERSONAL morals and principles. One guy even rang Ops at 2200 to tell them he was no longer available for a duty next day as he was leaving instantly.
Whether they were foreigners or not matters not at all. The cost was the same for subcontractors. We had a particularly exceptional Captain from Oz called Dave Reid on time off from Qantas.
By the way, there is a fantastic new sport called Welterbaiting. If you want to know the rules then please PM me.
the guys that left us in the lurch last year -- it was NOTHING to do with their nationality, it was their PERSONAL morals and principles. One guy even rang Ops at 2200 to tell them he was no longer available for a duty next day as he was leaving instantly.
Whether they were foreigners or not matters not at all. The cost was the same for subcontractors. We had a particularly exceptional Captain from Oz called Dave Reid on time off from Qantas.
By the way, there is a fantastic new sport called Welterbaiting. If you want to know the rules then please PM me.
Gizajob
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As a former Welterbaiting referee, I can advise that a BLK FO retired as undisputed champion, following a magnificent effort and that consequently, Welterbaiting was discontinued.
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Egbkflyer
You can't retire boy, we'll be short handed.
Rather than answer all the PMs individually, here is a brief explanation of the next Olympic sport, Welterbaiting.
Once upon a time in a land far,far away was an airline captain who could moan about anything and I mean anything. I even jumped in a taxi once and the driver asked me if I knew this captain. It was because the captain had been in his taxi and moaned for a whole hour to a complete stranger about...well everything. The taxi driver was glad the trip was only for one hour. As it happens, I did know him.
However moaning was not his best attribute. I don't know the noun to describe what he was best at, but it went something like this.
Anything you had done, he had done better or faster or first, you get the idea. If you had climbed Everest, he had climbed it higher. And so on.
But it gets even better because he was so full of sh!t, he would get even more remarkable in his unbelievable boasts. Imagine the poor FOs who had to listen to this guy for hour upon hour in the cruise.
Eventually the FOs came up with a new sport, yup Welterbaiting. Essentially they would feed him a ridiculous line and see just how much further he would go to beat their story. The responses were phenomenal. From being the New Pope's best mate to being a Plastic Surgeon specialising in boob jobs before being a Mig Pilot and so on.
By all accounts he wasn't a bad pilot, and he was actually one of those characters that are sadly missing in our industry now that the requirement is for robots.
I thought I could bullsh!t really well, but I realise now I'm such an amateur. You see, he could even bullsh!t BETTER than anyone.
Rather than answer all the PMs individually, here is a brief explanation of the next Olympic sport, Welterbaiting.
Once upon a time in a land far,far away was an airline captain who could moan about anything and I mean anything. I even jumped in a taxi once and the driver asked me if I knew this captain. It was because the captain had been in his taxi and moaned for a whole hour to a complete stranger about...well everything. The taxi driver was glad the trip was only for one hour. As it happens, I did know him.
However moaning was not his best attribute. I don't know the noun to describe what he was best at, but it went something like this.
Anything you had done, he had done better or faster or first, you get the idea. If you had climbed Everest, he had climbed it higher. And so on.
But it gets even better because he was so full of sh!t, he would get even more remarkable in his unbelievable boasts. Imagine the poor FOs who had to listen to this guy for hour upon hour in the cruise.
Eventually the FOs came up with a new sport, yup Welterbaiting. Essentially they would feed him a ridiculous line and see just how much further he would go to beat their story. The responses were phenomenal. From being the New Pope's best mate to being a Plastic Surgeon specialising in boob jobs before being a Mig Pilot and so on.
By all accounts he wasn't a bad pilot, and he was actually one of those characters that are sadly missing in our industry now that the requirement is for robots.
I thought I could bullsh!t really well, but I realise now I'm such an amateur. You see, he could even bullsh!t BETTER than anyone.
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This just sums up the UK at the moment.
Lots of 757/767 BRITISH drivers on the market and out of work after XL/Zoom/Silver Jet and an English company like Jet 2 is givin the job to an Italian.
while guys like me have had to leave our home country and families to secure a job.
And before you all say well were all European OR my post offends you in any way JUST stop and think about it.
Uk guys draining the UK benefit system just so a company like Jet 2 can..... Well i dont know why?
Maybee someone could help out on this one.
Wasn't it only last month that we had all sorts of walkout all across the UK for a situation very similar to this one.
And its not about being able to speek the lingo this is just a smoke screen. I can speek both French and German BUT I should not be allowed to take a job in these countries if there are nationals which are as equally quailified.
It makes me sick and I really couldn't give a sh*t if I offend anyone.... those who are however need to walk a mile in our boots before even considering to post on this matter.
And Hallibut let me guess your a non national flying in the UK
Lots of 757/767 BRITISH drivers on the market and out of work after XL/Zoom/Silver Jet and an English company like Jet 2 is givin the job to an Italian.
while guys like me have had to leave our home country and families to secure a job.And before you all say well were all European OR my post offends you in any way JUST stop and think about it.
Uk guys draining the UK benefit system just so a company like Jet 2 can..... Well i dont know why?
Maybee someone could help out on this one.
Wasn't it only last month that we had all sorts of walkout all across the UK for a situation very similar to this one.
And its not about being able to speek the lingo this is just a smoke screen. I can speek both French and German BUT I should not be allowed to take a job in these countries if there are nationals which are as equally quailified.
It makes me sick and I really couldn't give a sh*t if I offend anyone.... those who are however need to walk a mile in our boots before even considering to post on this matter.
And Hallibut let me guess your a non national flying in the UK
Last edited by 3REDS; 20th Mar 2009 at 22:08.
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There is of course the flip side, there are many of us English blokes who have had to leave lives and families to work in Italy because the wonderful country that we have contributed to so generously cannot provide us with employment.
All the boys and girls I work with speak very good English and fair play to them. I am trying to learn the Italian lingo and boy is it hard but times is hard life ain't fair.
The advantage of being English is that we don't have to learn a foreign languauge which realistically a disadvatage because it does restrict where we can go.
I've looked at the Jet2 option but to leave a permanent job to get home, to face the ever likely prospect of £57 a week again come October ain't worth the risk unfortunately.
I wish you luck with Jet2 and I have to say the cost of living in MAN is much cheaper than Milan, especially the beer.
All the boys and girls I work with speak very good English and fair play to them. I am trying to learn the Italian lingo and boy is it hard but times is hard life ain't fair.
The advantage of being English is that we don't have to learn a foreign languauge which realistically a disadvatage because it does restrict where we can go.
I've looked at the Jet2 option but to leave a permanent job to get home, to face the ever likely prospect of £57 a week again come October ain't worth the risk unfortunately.
I wish you luck with Jet2 and I have to say the cost of living in MAN is much cheaper than Milan, especially the beer.
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3REds
No, I'm not a non national. Just making the point that the bloke was asking a basic question!
Why not bring this up with your local spineless MP or Jet2? I brought this up with my local labour warmongering turd MP and was given a blank look!
In fact a few Jet2 guys are going off to fly for foreign carriers , one to Japan, one to Switzerland etc
No, I'm not a non national. Just making the point that the bloke was asking a basic question!
Why not bring this up with your local spineless MP or Jet2? I brought this up with my local labour warmongering turd MP and was given a blank look!
In fact a few Jet2 guys are going off to fly for foreign carriers , one to Japan, one to Switzerland etc
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Welterbaiting? Genius, pure genius!
I had the pleasure of flying with this guy in a previous life, glad to see nothing has changed!
Our FOs would often share tales of how he had piloted 747s/Tornados/Concorde/Harriers/A380s/Space Shuttles whilst also performing open heart surgery/defusing bombs/running international companies and the like. Makes Jack Bauer look like a boy scout.
I had the pleasure of flying with this guy in a previous life, glad to see nothing has changed!
Our FOs would often share tales of how he had piloted 747s/Tornados/Concorde/Harriers/A380s/Space Shuttles whilst also performing open heart surgery/defusing bombs/running international companies and the like. Makes Jack Bauer look like a boy scout.
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saintexupery and zuz
You've been had - this nob jockey is not a 757 pilot and has zero credentials. Find another credible post by this jackass.
You've been had - this nob jockey is not a 757 pilot and has zero credentials. Find another credible post by this jackass.