Condor pilots
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Condor pilots
Hi everyone!l
anybody knows the contract for pilots and Cpt in Condor?
Montly pay,Roster,Annual leave,destinations?Is the company owned by Air Berlin?thanks a lot!
anybody knows the contract for pilots and Cpt in Condor?
Montly pay,Roster,Annual leave,destinations?Is the company owned by Air Berlin?thanks a lot!
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Not owned by AB, the deal failed. Still 25% LH and the rest Arcandor (Karstadt/Quelle), but the company is for sale, not realy sure where it is going.
Some 767 to come for 2009.
F/O salary is according the AB contract, quite low, check it out on ppjn.com (AB of course). For DEC, I am not sure, but I guess the same, in case they find DEC who fly for 4000€ net over the atlantic.
Anyway, you have to speak german to join Condor.
Some 767 to come for 2009.
F/O salary is according the AB contract, quite low, check it out on ppjn.com (AB of course). For DEC, I am not sure, but I guess the same, in case they find DEC who fly for 4000€ net over the atlantic.
Anyway, you have to speak german to join Condor.
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Annual leave 42 days
11 days OFF every month (reduced pro rata when sick or on vacation)
Destinations: check the website, it lists all the typical european charter destinations
Captains are still on the Lufthansa contract, the Lufthansa pilots will return during the next five years, no new captain contracts have been finalized yet
Most F/Os still on the LH contract, but several have joined during the last 12 months who are not on the Lufthansa seniority list. They have received a new contract which is similar to the Air Berlin contract, but new negotiations are coming up...
11 days OFF every month (reduced pro rata when sick or on vacation)
Destinations: check the website, it lists all the typical european charter destinations
Captains are still on the Lufthansa contract, the Lufthansa pilots will return during the next five years, no new captain contracts have been finalized yet
Most F/Os still on the LH contract, but several have joined during the last 12 months who are not on the Lufthansa seniority list. They have received a new contract which is similar to the Air Berlin contract, but new negotiations are coming up...
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Reimers,
Are most of the Condor FOs who are on the Lufthansa contract likely to jump over to LH before any sale? If not, will their jobs at LH be preserved (can they transfer over)?
The pilot hiring at LH has always baffled me. Why would a cadet wish to start at Condor or Cityline if an option to start off on the A320/737 awaits at LH? What does Condor offer that LH does not offer besides more trips to Palma and other sunny destinations? Why fly a CRJ at Cityline if you could start at LH instead? Any insights would be appreciated.
Are most of the Condor FOs who are on the Lufthansa contract likely to jump over to LH before any sale? If not, will their jobs at LH be preserved (can they transfer over)?
The pilot hiring at LH has always baffled me. Why would a cadet wish to start at Condor or Cityline if an option to start off on the A320/737 awaits at LH? What does Condor offer that LH does not offer besides more trips to Palma and other sunny destinations? Why fly a CRJ at Cityline if you could start at LH instead? Any insights would be appreciated.
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Its not realy like that, you make the selection for LH and after that they tell you where they need you, LH Pax, LH Cargo, Germanwings or Condor. After a few years you returne to LH Pax, if you want.
CityLine is a different thing.
LH Pilots at Condor will returne to LH in the next year, thats why they start hireing people from outside.
CityLine is a different thing.
LH Pilots at Condor will returne to LH in the next year, thats why they start hireing people from outside.
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Are most of the Condor FOs who are on the Lufthansa contract likely to jump over to LH before any sale? If not, will their jobs at LH be preserved (can they transfer over)?
Why would a cadet wish to start at Condor or Cityline if an option to start off on the A320/737 awaits at LH? What does Condor offer that LH does not offer besides more trips to Palma and other sunny destinations? Why fly a CRJ at Cityline if you could start at LH instead?
Cargo/Germanwings accept older ready entry pilots than mainline, but they were the way into the seniority list for experienced pilots. Also Germanwings was hiring in 2003 when the rest of the group were not, time in the hold pool was a mere weeks where to join mainline students had to wait 18-24 months after graduating from the Lufthansa Pilot School. This was quite popular around 2003 when they had signifiant growth. Students were often left in the dark as to the disadvantages of Condor contracts (retirement age 60, less pay between 60 and start of retirement payments by the government).
Cityline is not part of the KTV "KonzernTarifVertrag" (Collective Bargaining Contract) that joins the other companies together (mainline, Germanwings and LH Cargo).
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you get a contract referring to original Air Berlin contracts however with a note, that they're valid only as long until a new contract for newjoiners has been negotiated. The current notion however is to scratch out Air Berlin and write Condor in and to call that the new Condor Contract... with maybe some minor improvements.
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No, if you fly longhaul or widebody you start in payscale rank 4 instead of 1. Besides, thats only basepay.
But yes, the FOs from AB that start as captains on the LGW Dash 8s earn quite a lot more, kinda funny.
But yes, the FOs from AB that start as captains on the LGW Dash 8s earn quite a lot more, kinda funny.
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More Condor Questions
Obviously Condor serves leisure destinations whereas LH (intra-Europe) primarily serves business destinations etc,. Are schedules at Condor more tiring and difficult than typical intra-Europe LH flight schedules? Does Condor provide a good QOL for pilots or do you get a lot more night flights and very early-morning shows that are tiring? Do Condor pilots get many night stops (within Europe) or are the flights typically out-and-back (i.e., to Lanzarote and back)? What about aircraft type at Condor - is there any experience difference required to fly either the A320 or the 757-300 or is it first seat available as long as you meet minimums?
Are pilots from Condor who ultimately move over to LH happy with the type of flying (not talking long-haul) LH does? I would imagine FRA-LHR-FRA-CDG-FRA-MAD-FRA-MXP in the Airbus would be quite different from flights to the Greek or Canary Islands for some people. At the same time, anyone lucky enough to get a slot with LH would probably be happy regardless.
Are pilots from Condor who ultimately move over to LH happy with the type of flying (not talking long-haul) LH does? I would imagine FRA-LHR-FRA-CDG-FRA-MAD-FRA-MXP in the Airbus would be quite different from flights to the Greek or Canary Islands for some people. At the same time, anyone lucky enough to get a slot with LH would probably be happy regardless.
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Thx Denti, already thought its gonna be like that, anyway with about 70h you will end up with about 5000€net, I think.
How many do they want to hire? Interpersonal talks about 50 DEC, thats a lot.
How many do they want to hire? Interpersonal talks about 50 DEC, thats a lot.
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Are schedules at Condor more tiring and difficult than typical intra-Europe LH flight schedules?
Does Condor provide a good QOL for pilots or do you get a lot more night flights and very early-morning shows that are tiring?
Do Condor pilots get many night stops (within Europe) or are the flights typically out-and-back (i.e., to Lanzarote and back)
But for those who are at a base that lacks pilots, this means operating 6-8 days in winter and the rest is OFF. Others based where there is an excess of crews available will be commuting on behalf of the company to somewhere they are needed, but still there are many days OFF between the nightstops in Germany.
What about aircraft type at Condor - is there any experience difference required to fly either the A320 or the 757-300 or is it first seat available as long as you meet minimums?
Are pilots from Condor who ultimately move over to LH happy with the type of flying (not talking long-haul) LH does? I would imagine FRA-LHR-FRA-CDG-FRA-MAD-FRA-MXP in the Airbus would be quite different from flights to the Greek or Canary Islands for some people. At the same time, anyone lucky enough to get a slot with LH would probably be happy regardless.
Last edited by Reimers; 5th Dec 2008 at 14:14. Reason: Quote function didn't work out yesterday
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Reimers,
Very interesting and thank you for all of your responses. I see that you have flown Airbus for LH, and I was wondering if you fly the A320 for Condor now? Also, which routes do you enjoy, and if you don't fly the 767-300ER, which flights are most popular among your peers on that plane? Do you hear of any fun layovers on certain beaches? Cheers.
Very interesting and thank you for all of your responses. I see that you have flown Airbus for LH, and I was wondering if you fly the A320 for Condor now? Also, which routes do you enjoy, and if you don't fly the 767-300ER, which flights are most popular among your peers on that plane? Do you hear of any fun layovers on certain beaches? Cheers.
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I see that you have flown Airbus for LH, and I was wondering if you fly the A320 for Condor now?
Do you hear of any fun layovers on certain beaches?
How many do they want to hire? Interpersonal talks about 50 DEC, thats a lot.
Yes, it is. But they will have to replace every captain that currently flies for them within 6 years. Think about an outfit where everyone retires within that timeframe. They will have a hard time carrying out all those courses, even with direct entry captains, let alone upgrading any of the "command ready" copilots that they have hired. Maybe the downturn will give them a break, imagine them having to cater for growth!
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From my experience :
flying the 757-300 is o.k., with a little lack of performance, the 767-300 is more fun, nice and roomy cockpit, easy to handle when flying manually.
Short/medium haul: work days can be very long, e.g. routes like HAM-TFS-HAM or DUS-HRG-DUS, 12-13-hour shifts. At airports with little or no night curfew you fly around the clock (especially annoying in the small hours of the morning). Night stops normally in Germany.
Long haul: there are nice trips, but as you start at the bottom of the bidding list you probably won't get there the first 2-3 years. Normally no augmented crew, so you'll be pretty worn out after the flight back, e.g. from CUN or MBO. Some trips are a pain in the a...,e.g. Seychelles. Sounds nice, but you arrive in the morning after a nightflight, and you leave again in the evening for another nightflight.
The working environment sometimes is "exotic" in every aspect (ground handling, ATC, crew hotels et al.). But if you are looking for a challenge then it's fine. And it is very nice to have a drink at the beach bar when you know that back home it's freezing cold...
flying the 757-300 is o.k., with a little lack of performance, the 767-300 is more fun, nice and roomy cockpit, easy to handle when flying manually.
Short/medium haul: work days can be very long, e.g. routes like HAM-TFS-HAM or DUS-HRG-DUS, 12-13-hour shifts. At airports with little or no night curfew you fly around the clock (especially annoying in the small hours of the morning). Night stops normally in Germany.
Long haul: there are nice trips, but as you start at the bottom of the bidding list you probably won't get there the first 2-3 years. Normally no augmented crew, so you'll be pretty worn out after the flight back, e.g. from CUN or MBO. Some trips are a pain in the a...,e.g. Seychelles. Sounds nice, but you arrive in the morning after a nightflight, and you leave again in the evening for another nightflight.
The working environment sometimes is "exotic" in every aspect (ground handling, ATC, crew hotels et al.). But if you are looking for a challenge then it's fine. And it is very nice to have a drink at the beach bar when you know that back home it's freezing cold...
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oncenterline,
What are your favourite layovers? You said you don't like Mahe since it is a once a week flight and you fly in and fly out the same day. Are there any more like that or places you dislike for any reason? Do you ever get LAS or DXB? Cheers.
What are your favourite layovers? You said you don't like Mahe since it is a once a week flight and you fly in and fly out the same day. Are there any more like that or places you dislike for any reason? Do you ever get LAS or DXB? Cheers.
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Yes they do, look at this www.interpersonal.de you have to register and than you can apply. I think they talking about 90 F/Os.