Ryanair B737 Rated Pilot Recruitment Day
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,349
Likes: 1
From: FUBAR
Almost as incredible as a recent memo to trainers I had sight of recently, extolling the absolute need to stick to the "training plan" and not introduce any additional failures or deviations from the plan (i.e. whatever it takes don't exceed 3hrs sim time) or " THERE WILL BE CONSEQUENCES " ( cue - dark and foreboding music) As usual the IAA adopt the three wise monkeys approach, no change there then. Given our quota of "serious cock-ups" over the last few years, it is difficult to argue with making commands / checks easier . . . duh ? ? ?
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: In a 737!
You know, saying that FR is a good place to work is like calling North Korea a good place to live. Your day to day life might be OK if you look at it from a day to day perspective, but the overall picture is a damn sight worse.
I agree that the flying is good fun, the aircraft are well maintained and all fairly new, the people you fly with are, on the whole, good eggs, but, and it's a big but, the rest of the airline and the effect that it's having on the industry in relation T&C's is totally unacceptable (look at the £13,000 reduction in new Captains salaries, for just one example).
And don't be so quick to discount REPA as simply a bunch of moaners. Those "moaners" are the only people who are committed to putting FR back on the right track. And they realise that what happens at FR will affect the rest of the industry (as evidenced by one former REPA poster who left FR and then found his new company expected him to accept a drastic change to his T&C's 'because this is the kind of thing that happened at FR').
The reason we stay is because we believe the only way to get anything done is by tackling FR head-on. Rather than running away and hoping that the problem won't catch us up. (I realise that no-one should be forced or feel that they have to stay. There are many reasons for wanting to leave FR, not just the obvious ones)
If you are sitting fat, dumb and happy at FR, then you need to take a closer look at the company and what plans it has for you for the future. This is a problem the whole UK pilot body needs to be looking at as it starts to permeate into other companies. You have been warned!
The total lack of forward thinking by some guys at FR is astonishing. Saying that you are happy at FR and therefore are quite happy to accept reduced T&C's is ridiculous. You are selling yourselves short and helping to bring down the rest of the industry.
I have something like 35 years left in my career, and I would like to think that I'm not one of the few who actually cares where we are going to end up if we continue to let this happen.
I agree that the flying is good fun, the aircraft are well maintained and all fairly new, the people you fly with are, on the whole, good eggs, but, and it's a big but, the rest of the airline and the effect that it's having on the industry in relation T&C's is totally unacceptable (look at the £13,000 reduction in new Captains salaries, for just one example).
And don't be so quick to discount REPA as simply a bunch of moaners. Those "moaners" are the only people who are committed to putting FR back on the right track. And they realise that what happens at FR will affect the rest of the industry (as evidenced by one former REPA poster who left FR and then found his new company expected him to accept a drastic change to his T&C's 'because this is the kind of thing that happened at FR').
The reason we stay is because we believe the only way to get anything done is by tackling FR head-on. Rather than running away and hoping that the problem won't catch us up. (I realise that no-one should be forced or feel that they have to stay. There are many reasons for wanting to leave FR, not just the obvious ones)
If you are sitting fat, dumb and happy at FR, then you need to take a closer look at the company and what plans it has for you for the future. This is a problem the whole UK pilot body needs to be looking at as it starts to permeate into other companies. You have been warned!
The total lack of forward thinking by some guys at FR is astonishing. Saying that you are happy at FR and therefore are quite happy to accept reduced T&C's is ridiculous. You are selling yourselves short and helping to bring down the rest of the industry.
I have something like 35 years left in my career, and I would like to think that I'm not one of the few who actually cares where we are going to end up if we continue to let this happen.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: B Pier
So the rumour that ryanair are dropping command checks is true? This is utterly unprecedented in aviation, the mind boggles. The IAA will do nothing of course, but what will the proper aviation authorities make of unchecked captains flying in their airspace?
I propose that these so-called "captains" suffix their callsign with something like "L" (for learner) or "U" (for unchecked). This way the rest of us can be extra vigilant when around them. Of course, one must be extra vigilant anyway when around ryanair.
My god, unchecked captains flying with 200hr buy-a-job types, another link in the chain...
I propose that these so-called "captains" suffix their callsign with something like "L" (for learner) or "U" (for unchecked). This way the rest of us can be extra vigilant when around them. Of course, one must be extra vigilant anyway when around ryanair.
My god, unchecked captains flying with 200hr buy-a-job types, another link in the chain...
Joined: Aug 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 236
Likes: 2
From: About
Utter Bollocks
Yet another thread on PPRUNE degenirates into RYR bashing.
What a great post by Visual Calls, the ignorance you display is truly heroic! Never mind the fact that Captain's have a substantial amount of time on type and extensive training by the Company before being handed the "keys" to the aircraft.
It never ceases to amaze me the amount of vitriol towards this company and the people who would actually like to see RYR park one of its aircraft in the side of a hill in a ball of fire (Mad Monkey et al)!
Flaps5Speed180 your post is true in regards to not only RYR but all airlines. How is what RYR is doing any different to what BA are doing with project Lauren? Guys seems to be falling over themselves to cut BA mainline pilots throat! Surely this is just another method of shafting pilot's terms and conditions. The mere fact that they have looked outside shows they intend to screw the current pilots at BA for "cheaper" labour based in Europe. But typically nothing is said about how this will degrade T&C's of the pilot body. The same also applies for Aer Lingus, with the Belfast base, once again on cheaper contracts than the already established mainline pilot group. But you guessed it once again not a boo has been said how this is bad for overall conditions. However it seems that when RYR change something the world is falling and we have to shout it to the hills for everyone to hear how RYR is degrading terms for the whole pilot community!
So Flaps5 your questions should be to the whole pilot group as to why we as a collective are happier to see reducing conditions not just at RYR but at all airlines. Could it be a symptom of the overall economy which has seen the rich ie CEO's and the like getting richer at the expense of the frontline or middle class workforce? In real terms the average wage has been decreasing steadily for the past couple of decades, long before the likes of the LOCO's showed up. But hey ho lets heap all the problems on them because they are the easiest to blame!
What has BALPA done to improve the situation? Nothing! We supposedly have everything going for us at the moment. Record passenger numbers, record aircraft orders, record profits and a supposed shortage of pilots, yet what have we got at best 4 to 5 percent a year when upper management has been averaging probably 4 to 5 times that!
I too have something like 40 years left in my career having been at it for close on 7 years and if I have learnt one thing only in my time its that no matter what size aircraft you fly or what company you fly for CEO's etc will only be prepared to pay the absolute minimum to keep your services! But like I said lets all just keep blaming RYR because at least then you don't have to focus on your airline!
What a great post by Visual Calls, the ignorance you display is truly heroic! Never mind the fact that Captain's have a substantial amount of time on type and extensive training by the Company before being handed the "keys" to the aircraft.
It never ceases to amaze me the amount of vitriol towards this company and the people who would actually like to see RYR park one of its aircraft in the side of a hill in a ball of fire (Mad Monkey et al)!
Flaps5Speed180 your post is true in regards to not only RYR but all airlines. How is what RYR is doing any different to what BA are doing with project Lauren? Guys seems to be falling over themselves to cut BA mainline pilots throat! Surely this is just another method of shafting pilot's terms and conditions. The mere fact that they have looked outside shows they intend to screw the current pilots at BA for "cheaper" labour based in Europe. But typically nothing is said about how this will degrade T&C's of the pilot body. The same also applies for Aer Lingus, with the Belfast base, once again on cheaper contracts than the already established mainline pilot group. But you guessed it once again not a boo has been said how this is bad for overall conditions. However it seems that when RYR change something the world is falling and we have to shout it to the hills for everyone to hear how RYR is degrading terms for the whole pilot community!
So Flaps5 your questions should be to the whole pilot group as to why we as a collective are happier to see reducing conditions not just at RYR but at all airlines. Could it be a symptom of the overall economy which has seen the rich ie CEO's and the like getting richer at the expense of the frontline or middle class workforce? In real terms the average wage has been decreasing steadily for the past couple of decades, long before the likes of the LOCO's showed up. But hey ho lets heap all the problems on them because they are the easiest to blame!
What has BALPA done to improve the situation? Nothing! We supposedly have everything going for us at the moment. Record passenger numbers, record aircraft orders, record profits and a supposed shortage of pilots, yet what have we got at best 4 to 5 percent a year when upper management has been averaging probably 4 to 5 times that!
I too have something like 40 years left in my career having been at it for close on 7 years and if I have learnt one thing only in my time its that no matter what size aircraft you fly or what company you fly for CEO's etc will only be prepared to pay the absolute minimum to keep your services! But like I said lets all just keep blaming RYR because at least then you don't have to focus on your airline!
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: B Pier
Never mind the fact that Captain's have a substantial amount of time on type and extensive training by the Company before being handed the "keys" to the aircraft.
Flaps5 made a sensible post. Other airlines may be only going up in small %s with pay, but ryanair is decreasing very quickly, something in the order of real income halved in 7 years. And as Flaps5 mentions, the ryanair way infects everyone else.
Rhodes, I suggest you get the facts before mouthing off about other airlines. Aer Lingus' new base in BFS was subject to a agreement with IALPA. How often have the ryanair pilots negotiated anything with management?
Rhodes, you are shirking your responsibility. Most other pilot groups are unionised. Alone amongst big airline groups, ryanair are not. Why? Because not enough of you will join. You call for blame where it's due? Fine, then look no closer than your own workplace. Improvement starts with a union. Easyjet pilots saw it, why can't you? I suggest you listen more closely to colleagues such as Flaps5.
