Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

XL Airways

Old 16th Jul 2007, 23:24
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The North
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
XL Airways

Does anyone have any information regarding the current situation in XL Airways regarding the usual T's and C's, morale, rostering etc. on the 73 fleet?

Feel free to PM me.
Punctilious is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2007, 11:34
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 281
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I have the same question but onto their 767 fleet.

Many thanks
londonmet is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2007, 23:15
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: SE England
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Londonmet,
The 757/767 fleet is rapidly going down the pan and crew morale with it. There are two airlines within XL. The original good ol' boys from Sabre(genuflect genuflect)and the cowboy lowlife from Air Atlanta Icelandic and Europe(ie the 757,767 and 747 fleets). There has been little attempt at integration since the two were merged. XL management are a cadre of Sabre/Excel Originals. As far as they are concerned they are the truth and the light and all others are worthless. The 757s and 767s are believed to be going within the next year to 18 months, I say 'believed' because the whole place is run on rumour as the management don't believe in communication and the little that does escape from the CEO's pen seems to emanate from one who is almost childishly illiterate.) Most 757 767 crew members wouldn't know who their bosses were or what they looked like. The future is so stark, most people are in the process of Zooming off. The whole tone of the place is encapsulated by the CEO's request at last year's End of Season Party in a Crawley club. Having failed to gain the attention of all present,he yelled 'Shut the F**k up'. One to avoid.
abra is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2007, 12:12
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: SE England
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Londomet,
Sorry, please disregard all I said previously.I have obviously been deluded.XL is indeed a well led,integrated friendly bunch and crew morale on the 747,757,767 fleets couldn't be higher.I was obviously confused by forgetting that trainers are managers.I'd recommend you apply for the 757/767 fleet.If successful,you will be asked immediately to choose between the 737(probably part time to begin with),A320s (based somewhere in Europe for a year) or redundancy!
Enjoy!
abra is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2007, 18:38
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: MAN
Posts: 798
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Stool-waters

Sounds like you "doth protest to much!" Where there is smoke theres' fire. Most of the Guys I have spoken to have no illusion that it is not a career airline.

I am amazed that the shower is still in business.
Dogma is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2007, 19:33
  #6 (permalink)  
SKI
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
This is nothing...wait until the 330 is crewed, then you will see some bitching!
SKI is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2007, 23:11
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: uk
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
dogma,
Just presenting another perception. AAE wasnt a career airline either but that doesnt stop people constantly making out they were.As for being in business..well they are so whos right the bitchers or the non bitchers

Ski,

exactly just bitching. Same sh1t everywhere.
Lou Stulewater is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2007, 15:00
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: South of the River
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Abra you could always take the well trodden path from XL to Zoom / Flyglobespan and then there you will discover the other little known path that leads right back.......

May the farce be with you

Daft Wader

Daft Wader is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2007, 15:56
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: planet igloo
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Lou Stoolwater, Daft Won*ker its pretty clear you guys are either management, or management stoolies either way, you clearly don't wish to open your eyes to the current perception from your crop of 75/76 crews.
Goodluck living in fairyland
Londonmet, I would avoid X'hell if I was you.

Last edited by 757manipulator; 23rd Jul 2007 at 16:20. Reason: spelling
757manipulator is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2007, 16:35
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: South of the River
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Just because a gentleman is light on his loafers doesnt make him a stoolie...

Abra , 757man - ipulator take a chill pill.

If times are changing it doesnt necessarily mean bad news,I hope there are plans to keep everyone in the picture with future developments.

Daft Wader
Daft Wader is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2007, 17:07
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: planet igloo
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Just because a gentleman is light on his loafers doesn't make him a stoolie...
I would suggest you are missing the point, but then, I suppose that was your point

Stoolwater, I love going to work, I get well paid (most likely better than you) and I don't have to head off to Brize or Basra or etc etc...
I also have a healthy skepticism when it comes to gentlemen such as yourself who appear (outwardly) to follow so closely behind certain management types that you would require surgical removal should the aforementioned management type suddenly come to a halt.

So guys, my chill pill is certainly not required, and my views are manifestly accurate.

Enjoy fairyland
757manipulator is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2007, 19:45
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
Posts: 6,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
757 Manipulator

Each of the airlines that I have worked for has someone like you who is never happy and just can't wait to rubbish the whole program, the truth is that XL is far from perfect but I have worked for far worse so as "Old Bill" would say "if you knows of a better shell hole then go and hide in it!"

Inccidently in the last company the guy who was always unhappy and could not wait to tell you how bad the company was went by the name of Jolly !
A and C is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2007, 20:04
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: planet igloo
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
"if you knows of a better shell hole then go and hide in it!"
Very very sage advice.

How are the company going to decide who crews the 330?
Who will stay, who will go?
Why state there will be no redundancies, when this was an option offered?
Why state that the company policy is to promote from within, then employ non-rated DEC's?
What about the cadets who were promised so much, and are about to be binned?

Answers to these and other questions on the back of your fairy-cakes boys
757manipulator is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2007, 20:29
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So what's the deal with the cadets being binned?

I have been reading this thread with interest as I was a contractor on the 737 for a year and had a reasonably good time. Having worked for big and small airlines I can say there are a lot worse places to be (although equally there are some better!).

In the end though, I left because of the attitude of management to promotion and the FOs in general. Quite why certain people feel the need to hire unrated DECs when there are more than a few qualified FOs around still puzzles me. At my last OPC I was graded "Suitable for Command" and then told in the same breath that this didn't mean I was going to be a captain!

So I left (and became a captain elsewhere), but found it a shame as I thought XL was basically an OK airline.

Would love to hear the truth from someone with less extreme views than some of the contributors.

KT
Knee Trembler is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2007, 22:42
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
How are the company going to decide who crews the 330?


The answer will be.......... whoever it decides, your new chief pilot will sort it out, I believe he is Airbus rated, I expect he will be top of the list, he usually makes sure he is first in line for everything.............looks after No. 1 very well
Iva harden is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2007, 08:39
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
Posts: 6,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
757 manipulator

From my seat at the front of the 738 I see a lot of FO's and not all are suitable for command this may be because of lack of hours or other reasons, I also see a number of FO's who when they get the hours will make captain.

It is the ones who are always telling you that they should be a captain that are the ones who are the I doubt are suitable!

So if the company is short of suitable the only option is DEC's.

I would guess that you have not talked face to face with the pilot managenent, you will find them a lot more approachable than you seem to think, insted I think that you are listening to a few of the wise guys who can see a good practical joke at your expence.
A and C is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2007, 12:33
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I think a lot of the problems within 'modern' companies (i.e. new startups) is that the trend seems to be away from seniority lists.

I started out life with a traditional operator (Air Uk) and there you worked your way up to the required experience (in those days 4000hrs) and waited for a command assessment. The system was transparent and and fair and everyone knew where they stood.

Although I have benefited from the meritocracy at my present employer, I do feel sympathy for those who have not and yet appear to be perfectly capable of doing the job. Often they are just too quiet, based away from management or, sadly, sometimes just female.

KT
Knee Trembler is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2007, 22:23
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: planet igloo
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I can assure you I am not management and also think non rated DEC is bollocks
Well I suggest you listen to a bit of A and C's advice...
you will find them a lot more approachable than you seem to think,
then post the answer in here, and prove my point
757,
Now I'm so confused . You say your probably better paid than me yet you have intimate knowledge of XL.So that means that you do work for xl and therefore I can assure you you don't get more than me, or that you are concerning yourself with issues that are non of your business.
Or option 3 which you haven't considered, in which case I will let you make your own assumptions.

You then say..
i have not flown with anyone who has been binned
which proves nothing, perhaps ask a second question of the approachable management.
Finally
Your approach smacks of agitation for agitation sake and as I said is in line with the people at work who only see conspiracy
I will happily admit to playing the devils advocate, but I don't see a conspiracy, merely a false and misleading picture painted by yourself Mr Stoolwater...
As I said, ask the questions
757manipulator is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2007, 10:06
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: EU
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Devil

Aren't they some Frenchies qualified and flying on the 330's XL France yet?
australiancalou is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2007, 16:43
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: SE England
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Londonmet.
I still stand by my original answer to your question. If I seem to moan itís because XL could be a truly excellent airline to work for, but for the moment at least, it is not.
You ask what morale is like. On the 757,767 and no doubt the 747,it is very low. The airline is going through a period of fleet change and people are concerned about their futures. With sound good management, and by management I do not include trainers or even fleet managers, as they have little to say in steering company policy, this should be a time of open discussion of what might be. It should include regular senior management communications laying down ideas of how things might proceed. XL do not conduct business like this. They prefer to keep their plans close to their chests. They are happy to allow rumours to fly, making their crews even more uncertain and unhappy. As I said before, with the CEO we have at the moment, Iím not sure he could express himself well enough to get the message across anyway!
Our situation has not been helped by the AAE/XL merger. Not one manager from AAE was retained and apart from a new CP from outside the company, the majority of senior Flt Ops and department managers are Sabre/Excel. The fleets never really integrated. I had no great love of AAE, it was a necessary stop gap to break away from AAI. I am told it was also a great improvement on that company. Joining Excel/XL should have been a greater improvement still. But it wasnít. Even the Head of Training, who is now on the 757/767 fleet has remarked at how distant he feels from XL now he is on his new fleet! All this leaves most of the 757/767 and 747 fleet feeling very exposed. Many are leaving. I can think of 18 who are about to hand in their resignations or are in the process of resigning from the 757/767s. Another 4 are rumoured to be going. Two are Training captains. They have not been moaning minnies, just people who see the writing on the wall. The TCX/MYT redundancies might be XLís saviour, particularly if some of those applicants are experienced A330 crew.
In the vacuum of no or incoherent management communications, rumours abound. Recent examples include the cancellation of the cadet programme, taking on three DECs two of which are not rated, no internal command upgrades for the next 4 years and so on. Managementís silence in the face of these rumours almost makes you feel they are happy for them to exist. Perhaps the mathematics of resignation are more advantageous to those of redundancy.
The one thing that makes me hang on is the people I work with, as opposed to those I work for! And who knows, the last rat to leave becomes the Captain doesnít he?
Reading the ramblings of Lou Stulewater rather reminded me of the latest company report by our CEO..could they possibly be the same person I wonder or did they just go to the same school??
abra is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.