BA and BALPA already agreed on EU 757 Pilots
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As you say, you are very well paid and get lots of time off. Work for someone else? wake up and smell the roses, you live in a highly privileged world. There is no one else you could work for who would give you anything like the same deal. True?
Join Date: Sep 2001
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I guess we'd just like to share it around!
By the way mountainrider (hmmmm, just joined, first post
), care to tell us exactly which BA manager you are? Because only one of BA's finest could come out with a statement like yours. Sorry you didn't get Lloyd's job, keep applying!To all those of you thinking about applying to PL, heed Tandemrotor's words.
Apply by all means, but if accepted, think long and hard before giving in your notice at your current job. You wouldn't want to be caught up in the middle of a BA v BALPA battle if you don't have to be.
BALPA are only one step away from a strike ballot, with the standing conference being delayed at BA's request. BALPA will not back down on this issue, and it may well be tears before bedtime soon!
BAA, VS, and now, possibly, BA, on strike in the New Year! Good time to dig out those train timetables!
Merry Xmas!!
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Tandemrotor, Dick Deadeye et al;
Thanks for the insights gents. It is a difficult situation and as you said no one wants to start a new position and then end up in the middle of a punch up. Personally I've got too much to loose.
Could one of you BA guys advise me what the situation would be for someone joining the mainline seniority list at present, especially for one in their late forties? I'm sure the answer is elsewhere on prune but I can't be arsed trawling through the entire site, (sorry Danny!)
Just trying to get a feel for what would be the best course of action.
Merry Xmas to all.
Thanks for the insights gents. It is a difficult situation and as you said no one wants to start a new position and then end up in the middle of a punch up. Personally I've got too much to loose.
Could one of you BA guys advise me what the situation would be for someone joining the mainline seniority list at present, especially for one in their late forties? I'm sure the answer is elsewhere on prune but I can't be arsed trawling through the entire site, (sorry Danny!)
Just trying to get a feel for what would be the best course of action.
Merry Xmas to all.
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Any non-BA pilot would be mad to take up a contract with project lauren.
But any NON BA pilot should take note, especially in those in easyJet who are fat dumb and happy on UK contracts while the company issues european contracts with lesser terms.
Well done BA pilots, you stick together and fight for your rights. This is what people are really jealous of, not the fact you work for BA, but your a strong united work force. This simply doesn't exist outside BA.
Good Luck..........
But any NON BA pilot should take note, especially in those in easyJet who are fat dumb and happy on UK contracts while the company issues european contracts with lesser terms.
Well done BA pilots, you stick together and fight for your rights. This is what people are really jealous of, not the fact you work for BA, but your a strong united work force. This simply doesn't exist outside BA.
Good Luck..........
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Who do you trust more - BA Management or BACC? Tricky eh?
I've had multiple debates with Tandem, Carnage and others about scenarios like this. In my case it was the take-over of BRAL and the merging of BRAL/Brymon/Manx etc.
With hindsight, I think we are all fundamentally driven by what is best for us - no surprises there. Hence we don't like being argued with when others take a similar view from their own perspective. BA are extremely fortunate in having a strong CC, and also, actually, very accurate in distrusting all proposals from management. In this particular case, it may seem, to some, that a BACC attempting to dictate terms regarding recruitment and seniority for an separate airline, separate AOC which is nothing to do with BA pilots at all, and just happens to be wholly owned by their employer, is really going a bit too far. To juxtapose the BACON thing, the BACC refused to allow the BACON pilots onto the master seniority list. This was a wholly owned separate airline, separate AOC to BA - just like PL, except that BACC have now neatly reversed their position 180 degrees.
At first glance, this seems like union dinosaurs wanting to dictate everything to their employer, regardless of ethics, morals or whatever; and in some ways, I wonder if a strike as alluded to would actually be legal - almost akin to secondary picketing in some ways.
However, and it's a huge however, having been unfortunate enough to have worked for BA management, I entirely understand why BACC are behaving as they do, and I completely sympathise with, empathise with, and support everything Tandem has said. If you understand the way BA Management work, then you realise you can tell when they are lying - their lips move! Any follower of the long drawn out and painful story of BACON from the moment of its purchase to its premature demise (WW breaking his word) lets you see that PL is another strategic attempt to reduce BA Ts and Cs, and make more profit for shareholders and more bonuses for management at all levels. There is next to nothing else to cut or make more efficient, and so very predictably here we go with a long haul BACON Mk 2, only this time on a much grander scale.
Any doubters still reading at this stage need only look at what happened to the BA pension - I still think BACC lost that one, although perhaps it was unwinnable.
Those of you with EZY would do well to heed this, the Eastern Europeans are coming, from their point of view a 50% UK salary is a 3 fold payrise - bit of a no-brainer from their perspective don't you think? The next thing will be the EASA AOC, and after that - well, the bottom of the well is the limit! That's what happens when, to mix my metaphors, you allow the thin end of the wedge under the door.
BA have always been envied, and sometimes disliked for many silly reasons, but they DO stick together, and they CAN see an attempt to put the writing on the wall. The BA Ts and Cs used to be the gold standard of UK professional piloting, I don't think that's the case any more but it's still true to say that any erosion of their Ts and Cs wil hurt us all.
Good luck boys! (I don't think it'll be easy though!).
Noli Illigitimi Carborundum.
With hindsight, I think we are all fundamentally driven by what is best for us - no surprises there. Hence we don't like being argued with when others take a similar view from their own perspective. BA are extremely fortunate in having a strong CC, and also, actually, very accurate in distrusting all proposals from management. In this particular case, it may seem, to some, that a BACC attempting to dictate terms regarding recruitment and seniority for an separate airline, separate AOC which is nothing to do with BA pilots at all, and just happens to be wholly owned by their employer, is really going a bit too far. To juxtapose the BACON thing, the BACC refused to allow the BACON pilots onto the master seniority list. This was a wholly owned separate airline, separate AOC to BA - just like PL, except that BACC have now neatly reversed their position 180 degrees.
At first glance, this seems like union dinosaurs wanting to dictate everything to their employer, regardless of ethics, morals or whatever; and in some ways, I wonder if a strike as alluded to would actually be legal - almost akin to secondary picketing in some ways.
However, and it's a huge however, having been unfortunate enough to have worked for BA management, I entirely understand why BACC are behaving as they do, and I completely sympathise with, empathise with, and support everything Tandem has said. If you understand the way BA Management work, then you realise you can tell when they are lying - their lips move! Any follower of the long drawn out and painful story of BACON from the moment of its purchase to its premature demise (WW breaking his word) lets you see that PL is another strategic attempt to reduce BA Ts and Cs, and make more profit for shareholders and more bonuses for management at all levels. There is next to nothing else to cut or make more efficient, and so very predictably here we go with a long haul BACON Mk 2, only this time on a much grander scale.
Any doubters still reading at this stage need only look at what happened to the BA pension - I still think BACC lost that one, although perhaps it was unwinnable.
Those of you with EZY would do well to heed this, the Eastern Europeans are coming, from their point of view a 50% UK salary is a 3 fold payrise - bit of a no-brainer from their perspective don't you think? The next thing will be the EASA AOC, and after that - well, the bottom of the well is the limit! That's what happens when, to mix my metaphors, you allow the thin end of the wedge under the door.
BA have always been envied, and sometimes disliked for many silly reasons, but they DO stick together, and they CAN see an attempt to put the writing on the wall. The BA Ts and Cs used to be the gold standard of UK professional piloting, I don't think that's the case any more but it's still true to say that any erosion of their Ts and Cs wil hurt us all.
Good luck boys! (I don't think it'll be easy though!).
Noli Illigitimi Carborundum.
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northern boy
I'm not really well up on these things, but I'll have a stab at what you could expect.
Join on whatever fleet BA offer. If you have a jet rating, your first type could well be 777. A320 if you prefer shorthaul. After an initial freeze of 4-5 years you have a free bid to the type of your choice, or stay where you are without a freeze.
Your earliest command opportunity is highly likely to be A320 at LGW.
It's anyone's guess how long this could take, but I imagine 7 years or so might be possible. Expect a little longer for an A320 command at LHR.
SH out of LHR is not particularly pleasant. Particularly if you are junior on the fleet, and have a family, or enjoy your weekends.
So if you join at 47-48, you could well see a command by 55, at which time you could work for another 10 years if it suited you.
HTH
I'm not really well up on these things, but I'll have a stab at what you could expect.
Join on whatever fleet BA offer. If you have a jet rating, your first type could well be 777. A320 if you prefer shorthaul. After an initial freeze of 4-5 years you have a free bid to the type of your choice, or stay where you are without a freeze.
Your earliest command opportunity is highly likely to be A320 at LGW.
It's anyone's guess how long this could take, but I imagine 7 years or so might be possible. Expect a little longer for an A320 command at LHR.
SH out of LHR is not particularly pleasant. Particularly if you are junior on the fleet, and have a family, or enjoy your weekends.
So if you join at 47-48, you could well see a command by 55, at which time you could work for another 10 years if it suited you.
HTH
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Northern Boy,
Or from a slightly different angle:-
Join PL with Direct Entry Command (but hopefully on BA Mainline Seniority List) and LGW SH Command may come after 7-8 years. Or bid to RHS of B777 /787 /B747 /A380 (A350?) after 4-5 years. Or stay LHS at PL base and wait for SH LHR command. Or just stay LHS PL as long as you like.
Good luck with the applications.
Or from a slightly different angle:-
Join PL with Direct Entry Command (but hopefully on BA Mainline Seniority List) and LGW SH Command may come after 7-8 years. Or bid to RHS of B777 /787 /B747 /A380 (A350?) after 4-5 years. Or stay LHS at PL base and wait for SH LHR command. Or just stay LHS PL as long as you like.
Good luck with the applications.
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PL
PL may be running into problems, according to a report in the Times:
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle3095405.ece
Project Lauren, as BA’s proposed service is called internally, was to be a business-only service linking cities in Europe with the United States. BA now admits that the structure has changed and that Project Lauren will include economy-class passengers. However, aviation sources say that Project Lauren has run into problems.
Join Date: Jul 2001
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It was never going to be all business class.
It was always going to have an economy section of some form. I think that it has been announced that it will be mostly mostly club, with some economy plus.
It was always going to have an economy section of some form. I think that it has been announced that it will be mostly mostly club, with some economy plus.
PPRuNe Person
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BA mainline needs 150 pilots/year for the next 4-5 years (possibly more to start with). This is due to BA's expansion/LH orders etc. This info is direct from BA mgt, btw.
Time to command at LGW could therefore be as little as 4-5 years, based on current figures.
BALPA's position is that we want all PL pilots on the master list - then no-one loses out and T's & C's are protected.
Time to command at LGW could therefore be as little as 4-5 years, based on current figures.
BALPA's position is that we want all PL pilots on the master list - then no-one loses out and T's & C's are protected.
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The converse of this, if PL takes all the expansion orders and reduces SH connections due to JFK-European airports; command time will go to 12? years SH (A319 at LGW) and 22? years LH.
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Is it just me, or is anyone else having difficulty accessing the balpa website?
I just want to know when we are going on strike!
Edited to add: Just checked my emails. Expecting my ballot papers mid Jan!
About time!
I just want to know when we are going on strike!
Edited to add: Just checked my emails. Expecting my ballot papers mid Jan!
About time!
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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It's been down all evening for me. Standing conference (again!!) on the 14th. Depending on the outcome, strike ballot to follow fairly shortly afterwards. Lets hope for plenty of support for the BACC.