Easyjet - UK JAR Licences only.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Ireland
Easyjet - UK JAR Licences only.
Easyjet are now insisting that all all pilots convert their various JAR Licences to a UK-JAR Licence.
Surely this makes a mockery of JAR by one of the biggest operators in the business and has to be contrary to EU law as it infringes on the rights of those holding non-UK JAR Licences.
Has anyone any idea as to the thinking behind this latest policy?
Surely this makes a mockery of JAR by one of the biggest operators in the business and has to be contrary to EU law as it infringes on the rights of those holding non-UK JAR Licences.
Has anyone any idea as to the thinking behind this latest policy?
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: England
A mockery you say?
I think you'll find easyJet employs HUNDREDS of pilots from Continental Europe and has done for years. How many British pilots have employment with Air France/Alitalia/Lufthansa/SAS/Iberia et al?
At the end of the day its the companies trainset and if they find it easier to manage their license compliance by having all flightdeck on the same authority then so be it. Can you imagine having to liase with every National Authority in the JAA in each language? Specifically the company operates a company unique FTL scheme under a special exemption granted by the UK CAA who closely monitor its implementation and effect. Its far far easier to get all the pilots on the same CAA's books than to have any additional hasslr dealing with multiple CAA's.
Conversion to a UK issued License is merely a matter of submitting a form and your logbook. If that's too big a deal for you then don't let the door hit your ass on the way out and mind the queue as you go.
WWW
I think you'll find easyJet employs HUNDREDS of pilots from Continental Europe and has done for years. How many British pilots have employment with Air France/Alitalia/Lufthansa/SAS/Iberia et al?
At the end of the day its the companies trainset and if they find it easier to manage their license compliance by having all flightdeck on the same authority then so be it. Can you imagine having to liase with every National Authority in the JAA in each language? Specifically the company operates a company unique FTL scheme under a special exemption granted by the UK CAA who closely monitor its implementation and effect. Its far far easier to get all the pilots on the same CAA's books than to have any additional hasslr dealing with multiple CAA's.
Conversion to a UK issued License is merely a matter of submitting a form and your logbook. If that's too big a deal for you then don't let the door hit your ass on the way out and mind the queue as you go.
WWW
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: Somewhere in between
When I joined a couple of years ago they also insisted everyone had to convert their license to a UK license. Because they asked everyone to do so the CAA had a massive backlog and I and many others couldn't fly for quite some time. They then stopped asking people to do so.
Seems like their short term memory loop has just started a new cycle and they've forgotten all about it...
Seems like their short term memory loop has just started a new cycle and they've forgotten all about it...
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: FL400
Any JAR approved TRE (and any CAA TRE is JAR approved) can sign any JAR licence.
EZY is not the only airline doing this.
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: Sunrise Senior Living
The voice of reason (I hope). This is wholly due to the current situation whereby a UK TRE cannot sign certain JAA State licences. The following States are some of the offenders:
Belgium, France(surprise, surprise), Germany, Holland, Sweden and Switzerland.
Thus, the UK TRE has to issue a Form SRG1119 and a copy of his TRE Authorisation to the candidate who has to prevail upon his State Authority to update his licence.
If this process goes wrong, takes time or falls between the cracks, there is a high liklihood that the pilot will fly when out of check - not good for the health of any airline. So who can blame easyJet for taking steps to ensure that pilots do not fly out of check?
Cheers all,
mcdhu
Belgium, France(surprise, surprise), Germany, Holland, Sweden and Switzerland.
Thus, the UK TRE has to issue a Form SRG1119 and a copy of his TRE Authorisation to the candidate who has to prevail upon his State Authority to update his licence.
If this process goes wrong, takes time or falls between the cracks, there is a high liklihood that the pilot will fly when out of check - not good for the health of any airline. So who can blame easyJet for taking steps to ensure that pilots do not fly out of check?
Cheers all,
mcdhu
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 301
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From: Germany
@ WWW
...........Conversion to a UK issued License is merely a matter of submitting a form and your logbook. If that's too big a deal for you then don't let the door hit your ass on the way out and mind the queue as you go.........
I like your friendly european style!
As somebody said: hell lot of paperwork - not true- Fill out the papers, send it in to the required authority as you do with your "british" papers. However, do not plan the sim on the last day, so that the TRE can sign direct to the licence. Matter of good airmanship to maintain a pilot licence!
And WWW, look careful into the regulations and you find that some pilots with a valid i.e. german JAR licence would loose their TRE status changing to a UK JAR licence.
I bet, if you are a TRE you would not accept to loose your TRE status!
Fazit, there is more to it than "hit your ass"!
...........Conversion to a UK issued License is merely a matter of submitting a form and your logbook. If that's too big a deal for you then don't let the door hit your ass on the way out and mind the queue as you go.........
I like your friendly european style!
As somebody said: hell lot of paperwork - not true- Fill out the papers, send it in to the required authority as you do with your "british" papers. However, do not plan the sim on the last day, so that the TRE can sign direct to the licence. Matter of good airmanship to maintain a pilot licence!
And WWW, look careful into the regulations and you find that some pilots with a valid i.e. german JAR licence would loose their TRE status changing to a UK JAR licence.
I bet, if you are a TRE you would not accept to loose your TRE status!
Fazit, there is more to it than "hit your ass"!
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 586
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From: South East England
My company has people flying on other states JAR licences and I know it causes administrative difficulties due to varying degrees of interpretation of the regulations.Some European countries very much do their own thing regarding the regulations often pandering to the whims of the "state carrrier".Can,t say I blame Easyjet for this one they have a joint responsiblility for this one with their pilots and just one interpretation of the rule set will make life much easier.The bottom end of the seniority list of my company reads like an European phone directory and the "guest workers" have been made most welcome some even marrying British girls.I wouldn,t rate my chances of a job in in many of the parts of Europe and many Dutch can,t get a job with their state carrier because they went to the "wrong college".Job won,t be worth having for the next generation why are we worrying.VBR Stampe
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,832
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From: UK
mcdhu:
That's interesting; unlike you I can sign Belgian and Swedish licences.
Strangely, I could sign Dutch and Swiss licences BEFORE they became JAR compliant but not any more.
Common licence my foot; the whole set-up is a farce located in the middle of a minefield.
As someone else has already said, getting all pilots on to a common (in this case UK-JAR) licence makes a lot of sense.
That's interesting; unlike you I can sign Belgian and Swedish licences.
Strangely, I could sign Dutch and Swiss licences BEFORE they became JAR compliant but not any more.
Common licence my foot; the whole set-up is a farce located in the middle of a minefield.
As someone else has already said, getting all pilots on to a common (in this case UK-JAR) licence makes a lot of sense.
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: U.K.
If this is the case, then really, what's the point of having a European wide licence?
I know how difficult it can be for a company like Easy and WWW's points are valid, but for a TRE to lose their status just because they are moving from one JAR licence to another is a mockery.
I know how difficult it can be for a company like Easy and WWW's points are valid, but for a TRE to lose their status just because they are moving from one JAR licence to another is a mockery.
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 17,519
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From: England
I know nothing about the exotics of TRE rights.
I don't think it is unreasonable for EZY to ask all its pilots to apply for a UK issued license.
Any bitching from Continental pilots about the process has to be weighed in context.
WWW
I don't think it is unreasonable for EZY to ask all its pilots to apply for a UK issued license.
Any bitching from Continental pilots about the process has to be weighed in context.
WWW
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 301
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From: Germany
Dear WWW
I am not bitching as a continental pilot. I am considering the regulations which give some pilots a disadvantage.
By the way, the company did not complain about this issue for a long, long time.
Just with the change in the training department it came up!
Additionally lot of pilots have it written in their contract, that a JAR-licence is sufficient!
Anything wrong with legal arguments from the continent!?
I am not bitching as a continental pilot. I am considering the regulations which give some pilots a disadvantage.
By the way, the company did not complain about this issue for a long, long time.
Just with the change in the training department it came up!
Additionally lot of pilots have it written in their contract, that a JAR-licence is sufficient!
Anything wrong with legal arguments from the continent!?
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 822
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From: In my seat
I have a belgian licence, and TRE's from the UK, Iceland and Germany have signed my licence without any problem. The Belgian CAA has to accept the signatures and they know it. No forms to be filled in.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,643
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From: UK
Neil
We rule the world, get rid of all jonny foriegners and send them to Germany is my view (oops that's happening anyway
)
The licence issue these days in the UK is straight forward, down to the CAA for 0800 and out by 1000 if your first in the queue. Done a few Dutch and German licences and they took 7-10 days, nothing that bad
We rule the world, get rid of all jonny foriegners and send them to Germany is my view (oops that's happening anyway
) The licence issue these days in the UK is straight forward, down to the CAA for 0800 and out by 1000 if your first in the queue. Done a few Dutch and German licences and they took 7-10 days, nothing that bad
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 170
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From: Dubai
There are European states that will not allow UK TRE's to sign revalidations / renewals and as mentioned above there are additional forms to fill in (SRG1119). This isn't the only reason, if a non UK rating expires on say the 10th of the month, then that is the date it expires. If a UK rating expires on the 10th of the month, we can extend the validity to the end of the month, the aims software which tracks rating validity will assume that all ratings expire at the end of the month and potentially someone flying with an invalid rating. I have seen this before on a UK licence where the rating had not been extended for some reason and the person flew illegally.
Regards
MF
Regards
MF