Easyjet - UK JAR Licences only.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
From: on the Blue Planet
and the costs...
Ģ216 for a non UK JAR to a UK JAR conversion...
Worth every penny considering the huge task for the CAA of copying one's licence data to the other one, just wonder why it is that cheap
Sure love Europe
live 2 fly 2 live
Worth every penny considering the huge task for the CAA of copying one's licence data to the other one, just wonder why it is that cheap
Sure love Europe
live 2 fly 2 live
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 301
Likes: 0
From: Germany
A word here to the EZY pilots:
I think, we have more important problems to solve at the moment than the "UK-JAR Licence" issue.
Management sure will laugh about us, if they see our "problems" (licence) we are taking so serious.
If the pilot community is split that easy at EZY, oh dear!
I think, we have more important problems to solve at the moment than the "UK-JAR Licence" issue.
Management sure will laugh about us, if they see our "problems" (licence) we are taking so serious.
If the pilot community is split that easy at EZY, oh dear!
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: NwNo
I agree with you Kraut..
but anyway this is what the company is trying to do:
divide us.
First of all they are trying their best to give the impression Balpa is not rappresentitive of the pilot's feelings (see MC's and JP's letter) and then to break the pilot comunity by pushing hard for local contracts and etc..
This managemt is just like all the others: they only want money, and only for theirself...
And we have been too naive to see it coming..
HA
but anyway this is what the company is trying to do:
divide us.
First of all they are trying their best to give the impression Balpa is not rappresentitive of the pilot's feelings (see MC's and JP's letter) and then to break the pilot comunity by pushing hard for local contracts and etc..
This managemt is just like all the others: they only want money, and only for theirself...
And we have been too naive to see it coming..
HA
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
From: the Milky Way
I think, we have more important problems to solve at the moment than the "UK-JAR Licence" issue.
As the CAA won't validate licences from anywhere in the world, giving a 1 year dispensation of doing the theory exams, EZY are forced to choose from a much smaller pool of pilots. Hence they must offer decent terms and conditions.
The flip side is the corrupt IAA that offers validations to anyone. So ryanair can choose from a worldwide pool of pilots, most of whom are willing to work for peanuts, undercutting everyone else.
Far from being a problem, the UK JAR licence is the reason why you work enjoy T&C's vastly superior to ryanair. You should be down on your knees giving thanks, not bitching about it.
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: NwNo
Elnino, are you sure?
Having a France issued Jar license or a English issued Jar license does it make me a worse pilot?
And are you sure about the superiority of U2 compared to FR.
The conditions would be the same if a union would be involved in FR or vice versa...
The mngmt is not that better, they are just more politically correct
Having a France issued Jar license or a English issued Jar license does it make me a worse pilot?
And are you sure about the superiority of U2 compared to FR.
The conditions would be the same if a union would be involved in FR or vice versa...
The mngmt is not that better, they are just more politically correct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 301
Likes: 0
From: Germany
@ ElNino
you say.........As the CAA won't validate licences from anywhere in the world,..........
I am talking about "JAR-FCL"!!Not about any validations! This is a different story!
And now I am really worried (after reading the latest published matters) of the real problems in EZY!
you say.........As the CAA won't validate licences from anywhere in the world,..........
I am talking about "JAR-FCL"!!Not about any validations! This is a different story!
And now I am really worried (after reading the latest published matters) of the real problems in EZY!
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
From: Sometimes even home...
Ladies/Gentleman,
I guess I have been completely wrong for many many years if this is and have been happening. When I convalidated my european/ICAO issued ATLP into JAA-FCL paper about 4years ago, at least then, by signing the application I also promised NOT to apply for an other JAR ATPL in any other JAA country, since you do not need to do it nor you are allowed to do it. That was one of the main goals of the entire idea! Has that regulation changed?
We have guys flying with at least UK, Swedish, German and Finnish issued licences. We are not UK based, but most of the guys signing our licences are UK approved TRE's and they do sign all the papers and most of the times everything is going fairly smoothly. Of course, not always...
Last fall in Brazil I run into interesting situation w/ this licencing thing. After arriving into our initial destination, we still had a couple of legs within Brazil and for that we needed a " waiver". For the issue of such a document we needed to present all the relevant documents. The problem began when local CAA officer noted that the F/O had UK CAA CPL and he was flying with an other european country registrated a/c. It took us more that 2 hrs to solve the situation. When I was initially trying to explain him the system of JAA-FCL he first looked at me like I would be completely out of my mind. Luckly my Spanish skills helped me a bit, while same amount of Portugese would have helped greatly...
I guess I have been completely wrong for many many years if this is and have been happening. When I convalidated my european/ICAO issued ATLP into JAA-FCL paper about 4years ago, at least then, by signing the application I also promised NOT to apply for an other JAR ATPL in any other JAA country, since you do not need to do it nor you are allowed to do it. That was one of the main goals of the entire idea! Has that regulation changed?
We have guys flying with at least UK, Swedish, German and Finnish issued licences. We are not UK based, but most of the guys signing our licences are UK approved TRE's and they do sign all the papers and most of the times everything is going fairly smoothly. Of course, not always...
Last fall in Brazil I run into interesting situation w/ this licencing thing. After arriving into our initial destination, we still had a couple of legs within Brazil and for that we needed a " waiver". For the issue of such a document we needed to present all the relevant documents. The problem began when local CAA officer noted that the F/O had UK CAA CPL and he was flying with an other european country registrated a/c. It took us more that 2 hrs to solve the situation. When I was initially trying to explain him the system of JAA-FCL he first looked at me like I would be completely out of my mind. Luckly my Spanish skills helped me a bit, while same amount of Portugese would have helped greatly...
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
From: the Milky Way
High altitud,
It's nothing to do with being a better pilot. It's simple economics. The IAA will validate a licence from anywhere in the world subject to the applicant doing the 14 JAR exams. However, there is a dispensation of a year before the exams need to be done. The Irish immigration authorities will also issue illegal work permits for these pilots (illegal, as work permits should only be granted to non-EU citizens if it is proven that there are no suitable applicants in the EU, which is patently not the case. Although perhaps ryanair have managed to prove there aren't enough people prepared to work for slave wages).
Hence ryanair take contractors from around the world, work them for a year until the dispensation expires and then discard them.
For ryanair this has many advantages: the pool of pilots they can draw on is effectively worldwide. More supply keeps wages down and as many of these pilots are from poorer countries, what are low wages to us are high to them. The vastly disparate group also reduces cohesiveness and unity, thus reducing the liklihood of forming an effective union.
Make no mistake, the employment market is global and too many people are prepared to work for little enough that we will all suffer eventually.
The only remedies are an end to the banana republic that is authority in Ireland or persuading the scab labour in ryanair to join a union.
Are you for real? As an ex-ryanair colleague said to me recently: "ryanair isn't as bad you think, it's ten times worse."
It's nothing to do with being a better pilot. It's simple economics. The IAA will validate a licence from anywhere in the world subject to the applicant doing the 14 JAR exams. However, there is a dispensation of a year before the exams need to be done. The Irish immigration authorities will also issue illegal work permits for these pilots (illegal, as work permits should only be granted to non-EU citizens if it is proven that there are no suitable applicants in the EU, which is patently not the case. Although perhaps ryanair have managed to prove there aren't enough people prepared to work for slave wages).
Hence ryanair take contractors from around the world, work them for a year until the dispensation expires and then discard them.
For ryanair this has many advantages: the pool of pilots they can draw on is effectively worldwide. More supply keeps wages down and as many of these pilots are from poorer countries, what are low wages to us are high to them. The vastly disparate group also reduces cohesiveness and unity, thus reducing the liklihood of forming an effective union.
Make no mistake, the employment market is global and too many people are prepared to work for little enough that we will all suffer eventually.
The only remedies are an end to the banana republic that is authority in Ireland or persuading the scab labour in ryanair to join a union.
And are you sure about the superiority of U2 compared to FR.
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
From: UK
Whatever the reason, every prospective pilot is told during their interview that they will be required to obtain a UK/JAA licence, and asked if they are happy with that.
They then sign a declaration to that effect.
QED
They then sign a declaration to that effect.
QED
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
From: LGW
MCDHU and JW411,
Sorry guys, but make sure what you post on here is right.
There is no problem at all for a CAA approved instructor to sign a Dutch license. In our company we have several guys with a Dutch license and so far there have been no problems with the Dutch authorities.
Sorry guys, but make sure what you post on here is right.
There is no problem at all for a CAA approved instructor to sign a Dutch license. In our company we have several guys with a Dutch license and so far there have been no problems with the Dutch authorities.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 115
From: UK
Flying Torquewrench:
"Sorry guys, but make sure what you post here is right."
I take great exception to that comment old son. I suspect that I have been signing Dutch licences a bit longer than you.
What you say may be the accepted practice in your (I assume) UK-based airline but it is a different matter on the other side of La Manche. I was employed as a UK TRI/TRE for many years for a Belgian airline.
Before JARs, I had authorisation to sign Dutch licences and did so on many occasions. Since JARs came into being I have been given specific instructions that I cannot do this any more. At the end of the test, I complete the JAR ATPL/TYPE RATING/SKILL TEST AND PROFICIENCY CHECK form. The Dutch pilot then has to take it (or post it) to Amsterdam to have his licence dealt with. The Dutch pilots are as incredulous as I am.
What you do in your empire is not necessarily what happens in the rest of the JAR region. In any event, I would take it as a kindness if you didn't tell me how to do MY job and perhaps concentrate on your own.
"Sorry guys, but make sure what you post here is right."
I take great exception to that comment old son. I suspect that I have been signing Dutch licences a bit longer than you.
What you say may be the accepted practice in your (I assume) UK-based airline but it is a different matter on the other side of La Manche. I was employed as a UK TRI/TRE for many years for a Belgian airline.
Before JARs, I had authorisation to sign Dutch licences and did so on many occasions. Since JARs came into being I have been given specific instructions that I cannot do this any more. At the end of the test, I complete the JAR ATPL/TYPE RATING/SKILL TEST AND PROFICIENCY CHECK form. The Dutch pilot then has to take it (or post it) to Amsterdam to have his licence dealt with. The Dutch pilots are as incredulous as I am.
What you do in your empire is not necessarily what happens in the rest of the JAR region. In any event, I would take it as a kindness if you didn't tell me how to do MY job and perhaps concentrate on your own.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
From: here and there but mostly lgw
El nino has it bang to rights . Not all jar fcl departments are quite as jar as they should be. Back doors are wide open and the last line of defence is a company requirement that the jar licence is from a signatory state whose integrety is intact. That narrows it down to a couple in europe and one specifically you can bank on to follow the screening /requirement rules properly, and that is the UK jaratpl. end of. If were so bad go get a job in eurotrash land..Why worry about the uk. As for germany thats oly a bus ride from austria and lauda licensing corporataion, oops i mean caa. Allegedly.
Xenophobic..damm right. But not as xenophobic and protectionist as our colleagues in europe.
Licence Administration is a PC cover story to reintroduce some bladdy standards. And not soon enough I say.
.
And block that bladdy tunnel while we're at it.
Xenophobic..damm right. But not as xenophobic and protectionist as our colleagues in europe.
Licence Administration is a PC cover story to reintroduce some bladdy standards. And not soon enough I say.
.And block that bladdy tunnel while we're at it.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 115
From: UK
Flying Torquewrench:
But that is exactly the point; the so-called common licence is no such thing in actual practice.
I can sign Swedish and Belgian licences but others can't. You can sign Dutch (and probably Swiss) licences but I can't (anymore). Just where exactly is the commonality?
I'm afraid there is no such thing as a standardised European bureaucrat! That is where the problem lies.
But that is exactly the point; the so-called common licence is no such thing in actual practice.
I can sign Swedish and Belgian licences but others can't. You can sign Dutch (and probably Swiss) licences but I can't (anymore). Just where exactly is the commonality?
I'm afraid there is no such thing as a standardised European bureaucrat! That is where the problem lies.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: A suite with a view
I donīt see a problem with easyJet asking pilots to change their licences to UK state of issue.
As others have mentioned earlier, this has been the norm for years at easy. And they have paid for the conversion as well.
When I joined they said that f.ex. the Belgian CAA would not accept a UK examiner signing the licence.
Another example is Sterling Airlines in Denmark, they require all pilots to have a Danish JAR licence, who in my experience are a lot more difficult to deal with than the UK CAA.
Furthermore, in Denmark the yearly fee (yes you normally pay for a yearly renewal, not like a 5 year renewal in the UK) is almost identical to what you pay for 5 years in the UK. (Makes economical sense to have the UK licence, no)
My two cents worth,
As others have mentioned earlier, this has been the norm for years at easy. And they have paid for the conversion as well.
When I joined they said that f.ex. the Belgian CAA would not accept a UK examiner signing the licence.
Another example is Sterling Airlines in Denmark, they require all pilots to have a Danish JAR licence, who in my experience are a lot more difficult to deal with than the UK CAA.
Furthermore, in Denmark the yearly fee (yes you normally pay for a yearly renewal, not like a 5 year renewal in the UK) is almost identical to what you pay for 5 years in the UK. (Makes economical sense to have the UK licence, no)
My two cents worth,
