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Pilot Shortage?

Old 26th Nov 2006, 09:29
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 6
To "wings"

Right you are, at least regarding the world wide market..
Being in close contact to several mates flying widespread around the globe,
everybody is telling me that his airline is looking for experienced pilots, some
of them desperately!
The biggest demand exists in the middle east and asia, but Europe starts to
clear up as well. For the time being you still might require the appropriate
type rating, but some companies start to offer even this.

As one of my fellas here stated: The tsunami is already launched, but our
so called "managers" haven't realized it yet!

Just be patient for a few more months more, our time is about to come..

Fly safe

dr.b.
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Old 26th Nov 2006, 10:46
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Sussex, England
Posts: 110
Porridge, there are quite a few experienced pilots floating around Framce, but they are being too well looked after by their govmt and Air Force pensions to be bothered moving. They are the kings of lifestyle remember, and would never trade lifestyle, especially to work for a LCC based in Essex.

As for FR having loads of planes doing nothing, that is not correct at the moment. It looks like (sounds like) the next 20 in coming a/c are already crewed which is given the rest of us a well earned break whilst we wait for them. The proof of the pudding will be in late feb and March when the old crews will approach the 900 hr limit. If the company has got it right, it should just about work, if not like the last 3 years planes will be on the ground again.

There is a serious shortgage of GOOD pilots, and they are the ones every airline wants cos they save shed loads of money, fly the planes smoothly and safety is never an issue with them, it comes naturally! Oh, and they speak good English!!!!
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Old 26th Nov 2006, 11:37
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: preston
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shortage

Did hear from extremely reliable source that Easy Jet "need" 600 pilots next year. Presumably they need captains and not just fo's, so will have to take direct entry guys. Wherever they get them from (even the people willing to pay for their own training and work for no wages can't fill the gap) it will cause a vacuum with a knock on effect for the whole industry. We live in hope.
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Old 26th Nov 2006, 13:16
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
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No shortage

An expanding UK based 737 operator told me recently they have a hold pool full up with qualified and experienced 737 pilots, and a list of others waiting to get the chance to apply....

Shortage, doubt it.
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Old 26th Nov 2006, 13:47
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
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There is a shortage....but its not that simple

As usual, these pilot shortage debates have gotten wildly out of hand with many contrasting views. Let me try and clear up a few things for us.

There is a large shortage of qualified pilots with plenty of hours and who are type rated on the aircraft the employer flies. Just take a look at all of the ads in the back of FI every week.

However this does not automatically mean that there is a genuine shortage of ab-initio guys. There are hundreds been churned out of FTE, Oxford etc every month. IMHO, some companies do not like to take guys like this and prefer to be involved with their training right from the beginning. A few companies have started this type of scheme but no-one has really ventured towards sponsorship yet.
One example i know of is Cityjet who are sending guys down to South Africa, and visit them every few months to check up on them. They also have a say in exactly how they are trained. For example, Cityjet ensured that the newbies were flying within a week of starting training unlike many other schools which do a lot of ground school first. Cityjet have also agreed to SPONSOR the new guys type rating, which clearly shows that they are worried another company may snap these guys up once their fully trained possibly hinting that they may find it hard to keep pilots.

Based on this i believe we are at the very start of a bright period for pilot recruitment and barring any major world events the industry should keep on growing.

However, i believe that we can only say that there is a TRUE pilot shortage when Airlines need to offer sponsorship schemes in order to attract employees!

Flyerire.
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Old 26th Nov 2006, 13:50
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Originally Posted by Wings View Post
6 years ago I applied to the biggest airline in Hong Kong.
I received a very curt form letter saying
"We have your CV on file.
Update it every 6 months quoting this reference number.
We might get back to you, we might not."
I decided that an organisation that was so impersonal was not for me, so never wrote to them again. Since then my life has moved on and I'm happy where I am doing what I'm doing.
Last week I received a letter from the Hong Kong airline inviting me to reapply for a position senior to what I originally applied for. I repeat I have had no communication with them in 6 years.
Same thing happened to me. Of course it may just be that they emailed this out wholesale to every address they have on file.
If they were really desperate they'd have picked up the phone or at least invited me to an interview.
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Old 26th Nov 2006, 16:59
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Airlink Scotland

Not entirely so. I fly for an ever expanding 737 operator LHS in the midlands.
They have just taken on a friend I have recommended, with no commercial flying experience, zero jet time and no sim check, as a result of him passing one elsewhere recently!!!
True as daylight follows night.
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Old 26th Nov 2006, 17:24
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Question Experienced Pilots

Good evening to eveyone ,
Being an experienced FO with a few thousand hours on B737 , I have had plenty of e-mails , phone calls etc regarding interviews , some of which I applied to about 4 years ago . A very good indication of an experienced pilot shortage.
However , I applied to a certain Lo Co in Luton , and recieved an interview date within 5 days of applying .
The interview , and tech paper went very well , and went to the sim early the next morning . The first few minutes were a little untidy , however , I settled in nicely .The assesor was not from the above indicated airline , but from a certain training provider .
I then recieved a call within 2 days informing me that I was not up to standard . Only a week prior to this , I had my LPC which was observed by a CAA inspector , which went very well , and recieved a very good report .
I must admit that I am still suprised at what happened , due to the fact that this particular airline is looking for 450 pilots , as was expressed to me at my interview .
I definately do not have a gripe at all , the people in Luton , were very pleasant , friendly , and welcoming .
I agree there is a shortage , however , how much of a shortage .
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Old 26th Nov 2006, 19:43
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Did hear from extremely reliable source that Easy Jet "need" 600 pilots next year.
I love PPRuNe! Your reliable source is way off the mark. EZY want 450.
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Old 26th Nov 2006, 20:33
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Don't worry ME109, its just that the certain training provider can't make that much money off you Your story has been repeated several dozen times, that I am aware of.

Just out of interest, the assessor wasn't as certain ex BA 767 skipper was it?
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Old 26th Nov 2006, 21:43
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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One example i know of is Cityjet who are sending guys down to South Africa, and visit them every few months to check up on them. They also have a say in exactly how they are trained. For example, Cityjet ensured that the newbies were flying within a week of starting training unlike many other schools which do a lot of ground school first. Cityjet have also agreed to SPONSOR the new guys type rating, which clearly shows that they are worried another company may snap these guys up once their fully trained possibly hinting that they may find it hard to keep pilots.
Damn generous of them to "sponsor" the ratings, considering they're charging them twice the market rate for the CPL/IR training. And that WITHOUT a job guarantee. It seems however they're correct in worrying about the guys going elsewhere, as rumour has it the cadets have refused to sign shityjet contracts.

As far as I can see, were these different times, times in which pilots had an ounce of self-respect and were unwilling to be ridden by the airlines, there would be a serious shortage. However, while legions of goons are willing to sign up to SS ratings (SS being quite an apt acronymn actually for some of the airlines behaviours) and work for half nothing, there won't be the much-desired overall shortage for a while yet. What there is a certainly a shortage of is good and/or experienced guys. However, until forced to do otherwise, airlines only want warm-bodies on seats, minimum quality being acceptable.
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Old 27th Nov 2006, 00:50
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
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Originally Posted by CamelhAir View Post
Damn generous of them to "sponsor" the ratings, considering they're charging them twice the market rate for the CPL/IR training. And that WITHOUT a job guarantee. It seems however they're correct in worrying about the guys going elsewhere, as rumour has it the cadets have refused to sign shityjet contracts.
Actually, the fully integrated course Cityjet offer is costs exactly the same amount as going to Oxford or Jerez!!

While there were no guarantee's of a job, it seemed like a damn better prospect than anyone else was offering.
And just FYI, all the guys i know down there have signed their contracts of employment and are united in praising how well they have been looked after by Cityjet.

So while most were understandably sceptical about this program at first, it seems to have turned out to be a real gem!!
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Old 27th Nov 2006, 01:57
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by flyerire View Post
Based on this i believe we are at the very start of a bright period for pilot recruitment and barring any major world events the industry should keep on growing.
A very profound analysis, flyerire.
Additionally, it is simply to find out that there must be a shortage, or if not yet, it will come.

Input of new pilots has decreased since the recession in the early 90's, after 9/11. Lots of classical airlines have seized operation or at least their cadet scheme. Every year the old baby boomer captains go into pension. They have started their career in the 60/70's when there was the first expansion of civil aviation, so a big drain.

Although there is a huge number of people willing to pay for it, there will be never as much as there used to be when it was paid by the airline.

Airline industry is expanding at a breathtaking pace.

Ergo there must be a demand. As it has been said mainly for experienced captains, with several thousands of hours. Because of the reasons I stated above, there might be a lot of old and middle aged guys, but those with 5-10 years of service should be rare, and they are the ones the airlines need (for upgrading and cheap CMDs).

my 2 cents,
Dani
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Old 27th Nov 2006, 08:02
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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ME109,

A lucky escape there my friend.

Who knows how many decent pilots CTC trainers have ditched in the sim ride qe?

Shags
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Old 27th Nov 2006, 08:35
  #55 (permalink)  

 
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Interesting thread - so what would be the chances for someone sitting on a UK ATPL(A) with 3000 hours (no jet) getting a place? (Also have ATPL(H) and another 5000 heli)

Phil
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Old 27th Nov 2006, 09:49
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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i would like to point out something that some may have not yet thought of.
lets assume that 3 companies have 100 pilots each ,in their respective ,waitting lists.
lets again assume that atleast 50 of those pilots are allready in all 3 companies waiting lists .(as it is usually the case ....when people decide to move on ,they apply to more than one company and end up in more than one waiting list)
this has the effect of , 2 out of the 3 companies waiting lists ,to be short by 50 pilots.
so if all available pilots in waiting lists are ,for example,1000,and if all companies waiting lists are 1000 each ,and if one companies gets all 1000 pilots in their waiting list ,that means that the remaining companies will have non in their waiting lists.
so waiting list numbers ,dont ,necessarily reflect ,the amount of available pilots.
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Old 27th Nov 2006, 10:24
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
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To me, there is NO pilot shortage at all when you're a demanding a pilot.
Sure, plenty of airlines are seeking pilots. But for a pilot to undig a nice airline with nice conditions and pay is a bit harder. Getting your bum up in the sky is not complicated at all. Making good money in a good airline with good rosters is a bit trickier.
I tend not to accept anything at any price. I'm getting very picky with the years. And searches take a bit more time. While you're striving with a bad airline, plenty of nice job opportunities pass you by.
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Old 27th Nov 2006, 10:26
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Re TNT, how in the world can anyone apply there ??? Crap money, crap night-flights. COnsidering this is a company making outrageous profits, I take it as a slap in the face and a waste of time.
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Old 27th Nov 2006, 22:11
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
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pilot shortage...

pilot shortage....It could be but the most important thing is that this incresing pilot demands ....will give us the chance not to pay for type ratings, now it's almost normal but it wasn't like this once...
FE
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Old 28th Nov 2006, 15:29
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Thumbs up Pilot shortage

Monarch man , that individual you refer to , was indeed an ex BA 767 skipper .
I may give it another go , but at the moment I am strongly considering an application to Monarch . Thank God , I have a job , so perhaps the pilot shortage will work more in our favour .
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