bmi/BMed (Crew thread)
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Max... I made the, obviously naive, assumption that......
You worked for BMI....
Your post is, presumably, intended to give the impression that you are on the inside with your deep, thoughtful, analytical insight and knowledge on the workings of BMI management.
Do you have anything constructive to offer the topic? If not, try and STFU and stop wasting bandwidth
.....You might have to Google that as well 
Probably the only remaining question is, which one?
Uranus?
Live long and prosper!
Your post is, presumably, intended to give the impression that you are on the inside with your deep, thoughtful, analytical insight and knowledge on the workings of BMI management.
Do you have anything constructive to offer the topic? If not, try and STFU and stop wasting bandwidth
.....You might have to Google that as well
I am more than happy with my place on the planet
Uranus?
Live long and prosper!
Last edited by lostinBRU; 3rd Feb 2007 at 18:26.
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Thanks Saddler......
I think the crews (both sides of the door) will be fine........ Great opportunities sometimes come from adversity........
The people I really feel for are the support guys like those in ops and perhaps engineering too...... Some great people, but you just know that some will probably be surplus to requirements.
I suppose the up side is that the franchise continuing for the rest of the Summer season gives everybody a chance to polish up the old c.v.
The people I really feel for are the support guys like those in ops and perhaps engineering too...... Some great people, but you just know that some will probably be surplus to requirements.
I suppose the up side is that the franchise continuing for the rest of the Summer season gives everybody a chance to polish up the old c.v.
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Gee you guys sure are tolerant, do you not have CRM training at BMED? Try to be nice.
Most definitely not pedantic, Princess, was just trying to show that i had learned from my earlier post and was now much better informed, if none the wiser!
As for anything constructive, it matters not a jot what anyone says on here, what Sir Michael and his fellow directors want, is what will happen, period!
Most definitely not pedantic, Princess, was just trying to show that i had learned from my earlier post and was now much better informed, if none the wiser!
As for anything constructive, it matters not a jot what anyone says on here, what Sir Michael and his fellow directors want, is what will happen, period!
Join Date: Feb 2005
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..and from baby flightdeck
Welcome BMED, I hope we can all share a beer in the Travel Inn, after our sim sessions at Stockley! Although all we 'baby's are north of Watford and west of the Isle of Wight, we hope that you'll find the bmi family encouraging and welcoming.
8028410q
8028410q
CRM.....?
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There is a queue for the lifeboat.
The uncertainty of what happens next has lead to most Bmed pilots sending off CVs. Some already have interviews. The spectre of shorthall is looming and most of us won’t do it.
If BMI management do not need all our pilots – fine.
If they do, better dangle a carrot quick.
The uncertainty of what happens next has lead to most Bmed pilots sending off CVs. Some already have interviews. The spectre of shorthall is looming and most of us won’t do it.
If BMI management do not need all our pilots – fine.
If they do, better dangle a carrot quick.
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Bishop,
bmi have no history of dangling carrots!! Their view is shake the trees and some more pilots will fall out. They apparently have a surplus of Capts and year one FOs are the cheapest. I'm sure they would love a tranche of you to leave. Good luck to you all!
bmi have no history of dangling carrots!! Their view is shake the trees and some more pilots will fall out. They apparently have a surplus of Capts and year one FOs are the cheapest. I'm sure they would love a tranche of you to leave. Good luck to you all!
Join Date: Aug 2002
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let's look at facts
bmed were performing so badly they were going out of business. I think with a little firmer understanding of TUPE and employment law it will become apparent that with saving a failing business, previous T&C's no longer need to be adhered to.
What has happened so far is inherently sensible. Bmeds relatively tiny assets would have been piecemealed and handed back (i think bmi have more LHR slots to Leeds and Teeside than Bmeds entire holding). So instead of this "pot" of assetts being dissolved, bmi have ingested it. A steal at the price.
If I can assure you of one thing, what bmi have purchased is slots,aircraft and contacts with countries that it had already shown a desire to serve. Pilots are the last of their concern as they already have a pool of 6 times as many as bmed. previous threads did not take into account regional and baby. they all work within the group according to date of joining, and the vast majority are cheaper than bmed contract pilots.
The best thing that could happen here is that we all become one big happy family with the result bigger than the sum of the component parts. How these parts shall be integrated remains to be seen. Be a good pilot and have a plan b to hand, as the weather at the destination is unknown and it's a bad time of year. good luck to you all.
Life's not always the party we were promised. but whilst here we might as well dance.
What has happened so far is inherently sensible. Bmeds relatively tiny assets would have been piecemealed and handed back (i think bmi have more LHR slots to Leeds and Teeside than Bmeds entire holding). So instead of this "pot" of assetts being dissolved, bmi have ingested it. A steal at the price.
If I can assure you of one thing, what bmi have purchased is slots,aircraft and contacts with countries that it had already shown a desire to serve. Pilots are the last of their concern as they already have a pool of 6 times as many as bmed. previous threads did not take into account regional and baby. they all work within the group according to date of joining, and the vast majority are cheaper than bmed contract pilots.
The best thing that could happen here is that we all become one big happy family with the result bigger than the sum of the component parts. How these parts shall be integrated remains to be seen. Be a good pilot and have a plan b to hand, as the weather at the destination is unknown and it's a bad time of year. good luck to you all.
Life's not always the party we were promised. but whilst here we might as well dance.
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Hi Shafted
I think with a little firmer understanding of TUPE and employment law it will become apparent that with saving a failing business, previous T&C's no longer need to be adhered to.
Do you have experience or background in this field? We plebs at the coal face have only the advice given to us and our own research to go on. I'd certainly be interested in some case law or internet links you have at hand.
I can't find anything that refers to a "struggling" Company takeover and how that affects T&C's in the way you suggest. It's certainly not what the Governments web site suggests. Again, some pointers would be useful.
Your name suggests that you're a "glass half empty" kindaguy?
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BMED was still in business (albeit for not much longer) at the time of the take over. This makes a significant difference to the terms of TUPE; if BMED had actually gone bust then as you correctly say terms and conditions would not have to be honoured.
There is a big difference between going bust and having gone bust.
There is a big difference between going bust and having gone bust.
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A little unfair
"As for BA - good riddance, crap handling, crap marketing, they missed out and have just lost 17 routes, 17 points of transfer traffic, £x million in franchise fees .... bye!!!!! Oh yes, dont forget that BA will loose 8m off their bottom line in fees we have paid for handling and engineering"
As some one who has had the pleasure of handling BMED for the last years of my career I think that statement is a little sweeping.
If I were to comment in the same vain I might say that Bmed have been the hardest company to work with.
I have lost count of the amount of times that delays have arrived at LHR with no information from Bmed ops as to what to expect.
The level of ticketing and reservations service coming out of the departure stations is questionable.
Although I have felt that Bmed have tarnished the colours they flew in - I will still be sorry to see them go.
As some one who has had the pleasure of handling BMED for the last years of my career I think that statement is a little sweeping.
If I were to comment in the same vain I might say that Bmed have been the hardest company to work with.
I have lost count of the amount of times that delays have arrived at LHR with no information from Bmed ops as to what to expect.
The level of ticketing and reservations service coming out of the departure stations is questionable.
Although I have felt that Bmed have tarnished the colours they flew in - I will still be sorry to see them go.
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Hi Renbabe,
To be fair to that original poster, he does have some valid points...........
Whether the finger is pointed at the right target......... I know not.........
But as an operator at the pointy end, the service we have received has been crap and is getting worse.
The people I have dealt with, primarily the Redcaps and the odd bod that comes down to the aircraft have been fine. There just seems to be a general air of frustration everywhere at LHR. Individuals seem to be doing the best they can, but somebody at management level is not putting sufficient resources or planning into delivering a service that fellow workers are happy with, never mind the customers.
Whether it be baggage handling, enough people to man the gates, availability of tugs, availability of drivers for steps on remote stands, hi-lift availability, somebody to turn on the stand guidance.......... it just goes on and on and on.
Economic scale works against us as well. If BA pisses 10 people off enough to fly with another carrier, would they notice? If those same 10 people fly BMED routes, then yes, it hurts us big time.
Enough crap happens to make aviation a dodgy enough job as it is; economic cycles, war, fuel crisis, weather etc etc but the crap that's happening at the moment is just crazy, own goal, shoot ourselves in the foot stuff.
In our case, we pay a considerable sum of money for our ground handling but to be honest we don't really know whether the fault lies with BAA or BA or both. So please don't take personal sleight, my anger is certainly aimed higher up the chain.
Again, with the marketing, the fact is that our new routes were/are poorly advertised. Where the fault lies is a bigger question. It's bloody frustrating when you speak to British Embassy staff down route and even they don't know that BA/BMED have started a service! What chance the paying public?
I can't speak for ops, maybe they will reply themselves, but I've worked for 5 airlines and they are as good as, if not better, than any others.
I'm not sure I understand your point about our outstations and your interface with them?
Anyway, keep smiling. I am proud to have flown the BA colours, even by proxy. I would just like to have not made excuses as often as I have.......
Whether the finger is pointed at the right target......... I know not.........
But as an operator at the pointy end, the service we have received has been crap and is getting worse.
The people I have dealt with, primarily the Redcaps and the odd bod that comes down to the aircraft have been fine. There just seems to be a general air of frustration everywhere at LHR. Individuals seem to be doing the best they can, but somebody at management level is not putting sufficient resources or planning into delivering a service that fellow workers are happy with, never mind the customers.
Whether it be baggage handling, enough people to man the gates, availability of tugs, availability of drivers for steps on remote stands, hi-lift availability, somebody to turn on the stand guidance.......... it just goes on and on and on.
Economic scale works against us as well. If BA pisses 10 people off enough to fly with another carrier, would they notice? If those same 10 people fly BMED routes, then yes, it hurts us big time.
Enough crap happens to make aviation a dodgy enough job as it is; economic cycles, war, fuel crisis, weather etc etc but the crap that's happening at the moment is just crazy, own goal, shoot ourselves in the foot stuff.
In our case, we pay a considerable sum of money for our ground handling but to be honest we don't really know whether the fault lies with BAA or BA or both. So please don't take personal sleight, my anger is certainly aimed higher up the chain.
Again, with the marketing, the fact is that our new routes were/are poorly advertised. Where the fault lies is a bigger question. It's bloody frustrating when you speak to British Embassy staff down route and even they don't know that BA/BMED have started a service! What chance the paying public?
I can't speak for ops, maybe they will reply themselves, but I've worked for 5 airlines and they are as good as, if not better, than any others.
I'm not sure I understand your point about our outstations and your interface with them?
Anyway, keep smiling. I am proud to have flown the BA colours, even by proxy. I would just like to have not made excuses as often as I have.......
Again, with the marketing, the fact is that our new routes were/are poorly advertised.
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T4
I flew low cost in Central Europe before coming to BMED and I have to say the biggest culture shock has been life on the ground at LHR T4. This is supposed to be the premium sector of "UK Aviation"; certainly people pay a bit and sometimes a lot of a premium to fly here and I have to agree with my colleagues on here who say that it is simply unacceptable ... even the Italians do better !
Late last year after an 11h duty I sat, with my captain and 6 crew, passing the time in the cabin and trying to keep a slightly distressed disabled lady and her family informed and entertained as we waited..and waited..and waited more than 40 mins for a hi-lift which I had clearly asked for (and had acknowledged) 10 mins prior to top of descent (and repeatedly once on the ground). I was told there are only 2 units available. I used to fly to little Dortmund (a little gem of an airport, worked like clockwork for us even during the world cup) and even they had 2 hi-lifts ! The resources (or resource pairs, driver+machine) just aren't there.
That same day a BA jumbo called airport centre to say that he'd been waiting an hour for someone to come and turn on the ground power!
I could go on and on. The Red Caps and most of the staff are, for the most part, doing their best and are very pleasant and helpful, but the "system" as a whole within BA handling just isn't working well enough at T4, for BMED at least. They request things, and nothing happens. Ops put in the same request, and we call on the radio too .. the support just isn't there when needed.
Plus there always seems to be some simmering industrial relations issue, and sometimes the discontent manifests itself as '70s style pig-headedness! Throughout Nov/Dec it was the loaders (pity all our connecting pax whose luggage didn't connect to their destination, because it was still sat on the BA or BMED service they arrived on) and their "new working pocedures", which were clearly anything but.
After a long shift back from somewhere like Addis or Almaty it is also unreasonable for the crew to wait another 45mins for our bags to come out of the hold, but my main concern is that the combination of poor management, big-company-itis, and a few militants will simply drive our passengers to connect in Frankfurt, Amsterdam or Paris. Whatever issues people have there are other ways of addressing them .. for all our sakes we need to be professional, to give the customer a pleasant and seamless experience .. anything else is a shot in the foot!
So I'm simply hoping that this aspect of our daily lives will improve under bmi. Something deep inside me makes me proud to fly the union flag, but mostly these days like most of my colleagues I am just ashamed. I think I speak for the crews when I say we care about delivering a premium product, and we're getting tired of having to make a fuss, and still having to apologise to our customers. It is such a shame.
Late last year after an 11h duty I sat, with my captain and 6 crew, passing the time in the cabin and trying to keep a slightly distressed disabled lady and her family informed and entertained as we waited..and waited..and waited more than 40 mins for a hi-lift which I had clearly asked for (and had acknowledged) 10 mins prior to top of descent (and repeatedly once on the ground). I was told there are only 2 units available. I used to fly to little Dortmund (a little gem of an airport, worked like clockwork for us even during the world cup) and even they had 2 hi-lifts ! The resources (or resource pairs, driver+machine) just aren't there.
That same day a BA jumbo called airport centre to say that he'd been waiting an hour for someone to come and turn on the ground power!
I could go on and on. The Red Caps and most of the staff are, for the most part, doing their best and are very pleasant and helpful, but the "system" as a whole within BA handling just isn't working well enough at T4, for BMED at least. They request things, and nothing happens. Ops put in the same request, and we call on the radio too .. the support just isn't there when needed.
Plus there always seems to be some simmering industrial relations issue, and sometimes the discontent manifests itself as '70s style pig-headedness! Throughout Nov/Dec it was the loaders (pity all our connecting pax whose luggage didn't connect to their destination, because it was still sat on the BA or BMED service they arrived on) and their "new working pocedures", which were clearly anything but.
After a long shift back from somewhere like Addis or Almaty it is also unreasonable for the crew to wait another 45mins for our bags to come out of the hold, but my main concern is that the combination of poor management, big-company-itis, and a few militants will simply drive our passengers to connect in Frankfurt, Amsterdam or Paris. Whatever issues people have there are other ways of addressing them .. for all our sakes we need to be professional, to give the customer a pleasant and seamless experience .. anything else is a shot in the foot!
So I'm simply hoping that this aspect of our daily lives will improve under bmi. Something deep inside me makes me proud to fly the union flag, but mostly these days like most of my colleagues I am just ashamed. I think I speak for the crews when I say we care about delivering a premium product, and we're getting tired of having to make a fuss, and still having to apologise to our customers. It is such a shame.
Last edited by George Foreman; 6th Feb 2007 at 11:43. Reason: removed prefix "old" from "militants". Quite often they are younger, and quite often they have long hair and a beard!
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Regarding tupes
Sorry for the delay in replying. The following describes TUPES:
When an organised group of people, eg employees, and assets - known as a stable economic entity - is transferred from one business to another and retains its identity after the transfer, the transfer falls under the scope of the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006 (TUPE).
Not all transfers are relevant transfers. TUPE does not apply in the following instances:
• Transfer by share takeover. When a company's shares are sold to new shareholders, there is no transfer of the business - the same company continues to be the employer.
• When a business transfers assets only, eg if equipment is sold.
• Transfers of undertakings situated outside the UK - although similar provisions apply in the EU.
• Change of business identity, eg if the work or organisational structure changes radically.
As I read it the share buy and the fact that the assets shall be merged into a different brand/company operating to a different C of A and Ops manual, preclude bmi from adhering to TUPES. Once the A/c are in bmi colors (end of summer timetable) i think some big changes will be afoot. bmi press release also states that Bmed have 750 staff, and they shall operate as the currently do for the immediate future, (i.e until october).
Although I know BALPA can be our saviours, they have been proved wrong before and may well again on this one. I know you have one or two ex bmi capts with you, ask them what they think may happen? but trust me, always have an adequate alternate.
Please ignore my handle!! it came about years ago and if I was one to gripe I'd post more than 20 times in 5 years.
When an organised group of people, eg employees, and assets - known as a stable economic entity - is transferred from one business to another and retains its identity after the transfer, the transfer falls under the scope of the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006 (TUPE).
Not all transfers are relevant transfers. TUPE does not apply in the following instances:
• Transfer by share takeover. When a company's shares are sold to new shareholders, there is no transfer of the business - the same company continues to be the employer.
• When a business transfers assets only, eg if equipment is sold.
• Transfers of undertakings situated outside the UK - although similar provisions apply in the EU.
• Change of business identity, eg if the work or organisational structure changes radically.
As I read it the share buy and the fact that the assets shall be merged into a different brand/company operating to a different C of A and Ops manual, preclude bmi from adhering to TUPES. Once the A/c are in bmi colors (end of summer timetable) i think some big changes will be afoot. bmi press release also states that Bmed have 750 staff, and they shall operate as the currently do for the immediate future, (i.e until october).
Although I know BALPA can be our saviours, they have been proved wrong before and may well again on this one. I know you have one or two ex bmi capts with you, ask them what they think may happen? but trust me, always have an adequate alternate.
Please ignore my handle!! it came about years ago and if I was one to gripe I'd post more than 20 times in 5 years.
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Agreed..........
And has just been confirmed by our CEO that BMED still exists as a business, they are our employer and everything continues as is, under our existing T&C's............
BMI just happens to be the new majority shareholder...............
It seems we are in limbo until the wheels decide what they want to do with the business post IATA summer season when the franchise ends. That's when the fur could fly......... or maybe it will all be very amicable!
"Ladieees and Gentlemen, the Fat Lady has left the building!"
P.S. She'll be back in September............
Let the rumourmongering begin!
BMI just happens to be the new majority shareholder...............
It seems we are in limbo until the wheels decide what they want to do with the business post IATA summer season when the franchise ends. That's when the fur could fly......... or maybe it will all be very amicable!
"Ladieees and Gentlemen, the Fat Lady has left the building!"
P.S. She'll be back in September............
Let the rumourmongering begin!