Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Terms and Endearment
Reload this Page >

bmi/BMed (Crew thread)

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

bmi/BMed (Crew thread)

Old 2nd Feb 2007, 17:22
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: World
Posts: 61
Congratulations to Sir Michael, Alexander and your respective teams for completing this transaction.
As one of the airline's founders, albeit with no current involvement, I am delighted to see that it appears all BMED jobs are secure.
Good luck BMED for your future within the BMI Group.

Last edited by flying brain; 2nd Feb 2007 at 18:07.
flying brain is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2007, 17:47
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 157
Originally Posted by flying brain View Post
Congratulations to Sir Michael, David and their respective teams for completing this transaction.
As one of the airline's founders, albeit with no current involvement, I am delighted to see that it appears all BMED jobs are secure.
Good luck BMED for your future within the BMI Group.
What makes you so sure about the job security? Must be a large number of management who see their positions as a touch precarious. Even bmi don't need 2 sets of postholders, fleet managers etc. Not mention Captains warily looking at bmi's current surplus in that position.
max nightstop is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2007, 18:01
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Wherever my current employers wish to send me !!
Posts: 718
I think it's a fantastic opportunity for both companies.
For "us" on the shop floor at bmi (baby), we never saw this coming.
It's the first really positive move for a long time.
And some interesting new routes for us to consider.

Good on yer Nige !....( and the rest of the top floor boys).
Little Blue is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2007, 18:08
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: London
Posts: 10
BMED and BMI

As someone who has been at BMED for 10 years I welcome the move by BMI. I just wish that ALL my colleagues at BMED rather than just 99% were a little more positive.

BMED has much to offer, much to learn and this is almost certainly a win-win for all of us. New routes, better slots, more jobs, expansion, more experience ...

Thanks to BMI, and the people there that have welcomed us so far.
Cheers!

ps See you all in FNA, BEY, AMM, DAM, ALP, DKR, KRT, ADD, GYD, EVN, TBS, THR, ALA, FRU, ESB, HBE, SVX .....

As for BA - good riddance, crap handling, crap marketing, they missed out and have just lost 17 routes, 17 points of transfer traffic, x million in franchise fees .... bye!!!!! Oh yes, dont forget that BA will loose 8m off their bottom line in fees we have paid for handling and engineering

Roll on full-BMI at the end of the summer!

Last edited by BMED10year; 2nd Feb 2007 at 18:27.
BMED10year is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2007, 20:26
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: _
Posts: 349
Word is, loads of promotions at bmi; all BMED's to the bottom of the seniority list and into the right hand seat. "Strict rotational seniority will apply".
dontdoit is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2007, 20:43
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Middle England
Posts: 24
It seems like the end of an era. I have had a great time with British Mediterranean/BMED. I sincerely hope there will be jobs for all, but I suspect that any duplicated role will be at threat. I empathise for all in the office (except perhaps commercial...). Here's to Des Hetherington - I hope he's not too restless in his grave over the sad demise of BMED.

Let us hope that at last we may get decent ground handling at LHR. I would love to know how many pax deserted us due to their bags being lost in T4...
Phoebus is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2007, 21:58
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: London
Posts: 59
Word is, loads of promotions at bmi; all BMED's to the bottom of the seniority list and into the right hand seat. "Strict rotational seniority will apply".

Spot the troll
Rick Binson is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2007, 22:06
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: London
Posts: 10
Check your facts

1 BMI can not change anyones terms and conditions, due to the nature of the purchase of shares - therefore BMED boys will stay where they are.
2 Call your BALPA rep - they already agreed that!
BMED10year is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2007, 03:37
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 33
For the sake of the pilots in both airlines I hope an amicable agreement can be reached wrt any seniority issues although the issue of seniority list merger can be very difficult. Perhaps more to the point will be the scope issues that this will inevitably raise. I am not an expert here but I understand that the BMED employess have their T's and C's protect under TUPE - but bmi mainline pilots have the sole and exclusive rights to perform all flights operated by the bmi GROUP to and from LHR. I suspect that this agreement would not stand up in a court of law and the company will be able to operate the two units side by side but on different terms and conditions. This will allow a very gradual but inevitable slide in the T's and C's of mainline pilots. Expansion will take place within the BMED unit and reduction will take place at mainline. Just a few thoughts. As I say I am not an expert in these areas.
bmimainline is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2007, 08:18
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 80
From what I heard, the BMI guys may not get it all their own way..... BMI has what? 350 pilots and BMed 150, so there is not an overwhelming majority.
I had heard that BMed would be get as a separate company (like regional & baby), and that the A330's would transfer to BMed by the end of the year to be flown by BMed pilots - it's just another way of reducing costs, and it also gives BMI an excuse to end B scales. Any extra 330's could be used non-stop on routes like Almaty, Tehran, Khartoum etc
The BMed guys can't all be demoted because of TUPE. Maybe BMI crews will be able to transfer into BMed when vacancies arise.
It is more likely that BMI will just use BMed as a way of keeping costs down whilst they expand their long haul operation.
BMed do not have any more aircraft on order, the current 320/321 orders are BA order slots.
I think that the BMed guys have a lot to look forward to - secure jobs, A330's to fly and very little change to their current rosters and T's & C's(i think that their pensions are better too). So for BMed, the futures bright, the futures blue.
PSYCOBFH is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2007, 08:31
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Buckinghamshire
Posts: 30
A330 to BMED!

If the A330's are gonna move across to BMED at the end of the year, then why was it announced 2 weeks ago that all current flight supervisors will be dual-fleeted and A330 trained??????

The BMED and BMI's crew will be integrated by the end of summer. BMED eventually will not exist. That's the whole point of the buy-out.

I cant wait!
CrewChick is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2007, 09:46
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 80
A330 to BMed

Well, think about it,
ALL BMed cabin crew currently have medium/lomg haul experience with experience of delivering a business class product. SOME BMI crew have this experience. Therefore, it is quite likely that the BMed crew will continue to offer their experience, but will now also be able to do it on the A330. You may not like it, but it does make bisiness sense.
Also, the talk a few weeks ago about training shorthaul flight supervisors onto the A330 too, PREDATES recent events. It is probably no longer valid as it would have been decided long before the announcement was made.
Things change rapidly in aviation as we have just seen.

Moving the A330 aircraft to BMed is just too obvious a route to take to be ignored. It will save BMI
PSYCOBFH is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2007, 11:08
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: EGCC
Posts: 15
I just hope that SMB and the rest of the team at Donington Hall are going to be able to turn two underperforming airlines into one good one. I can't see what this is other than buying market share...

I wish you all the best guys as we're all in trouble if it goes pear shaped.
cheesypeas is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2007, 11:19
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: _
Posts: 349
Re: TUPE

Who said anything about demotion? As long as the guys are paid (for which read "mark time") on their Current P1 salary at date of transfer, bmi can quite legally put them in the Right Hand Seat as Co-Pilot.

This is entirely TUPE-legal, and there are precedents both pre and post-TUPE.
dontdoit is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2007, 11:31
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 157
Makes perfect sense for bmi to replace all BMED Capts with their own pilots. The base managers have long since been looking for a way to reduce the command surplus and and offer some new promotions, this does it at a stroke. Also it provides a rapid introduction to the "kick in the teeth, you're lucky to have a job" bmi management style to the BMED guys.

As for 2 separate companies, you are kidding. Why would you want the expense of 2 sets of AOC postholders and managers at the same airport, flying the same aircraft types? It's a complete waste of money. BMED has been taken over, it will be no more.....

PS Psychobfh, 350 to 150 is a seriously overwhelming majority! The 150 could all have 2 votes and still lose!

What is TUPE? An agreement between the pilots and the BMED board? If so, it just evaporated, you can't seriously expect your new owners to abide by all your previous agreements. Everyone will be moved onto a single agreement for service with common pay scales. bmi's normal tactic would be to offer you the chance to re-apply for your job, on the new t's and c's. It sounds harsh but BMED didn't seem to have many alternatives.

Last edited by max nightstop; 3rd Feb 2007 at 15:01.
max nightstop is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2007, 11:34
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 5
Danger

PSYCOBFH - I think that you don't understand Sir Michael's love for bmi. The whole reason bmi has survived as it has and with the embryonic longhaul operation is because it wants it like that. Bean counters would have shut it down years ago! It's his train set and he wants bmi to be long (and medium) haul!
Buying BMED would be a commercial tool to help achieve this. It'd be suprising to see BMED survive as it is, there just would be too much complication for two similar but separate bmi operations at LHR so expect soon to be over at the Central Area in T1!
Whenever airlines merge, there's always winners and losers and its always done a little differently (BA/BCAL, BA/Dan Air.....) but looking at when bmi last merged in another airline - London City in 1990: Ranks were maintained, seniority positions (for determining leave/staff travel etc) were established by the merger date (i.e. at the bottom of the then BMA list), but for the purpose of LIFO in case of contraction, seniority was deemed the date of joining the respective airline, so the joining date was shown in the seniority list as the date you joined your airline. You can still see this ex-London City rationale in the current List.
However, what we do know is at the moment - no-one knows!!
gpilot is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2007, 15:47
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Back in Blighty
Posts: 43
Hey Max! Are you American?

From the school of " Halt, bang bang, who goes there?" diplomacy.
What is TUPE? An agreement between the pilots and the BMED board? If so, it just evaporated
I'm sure you are very charming but you might have had the grace to at least google TUPE first before spouting forth and looking a tart
Why do you stay if you are so unhappy? And why is there a surplus of Captains at BMI?
See you soon.............
lostinBRU is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2007, 17:26
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 157
Gee Bru, are you Belgian, where is Belgia exactly?

Oh You mean THAT TUPE! That TUPE may well not apply, since there has been a take over by share transfer, and BMED may well no longer retain its original identity.

You make some interesting assumptions; Why do i stay where? What is it i am unhappy with?
I am more than happy with my place on the planet, thank you, no need to move.

Last edited by max nightstop; 3rd Feb 2007 at 17:51.
max nightstop is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2007, 17:35
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: London
Posts: 50
Max Nightstop

Still you neglect to address the fact that you are ignorant to TUPE and the fact that what you said made your whole post look ill-informed and purely speculative!
princesssariah is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2007, 17:56
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 157
Princess,
It's a rumour network, i am fully entitled to be speculative! Can't help being ill-informed, i'm just idle, but you have used the wrong tense. Am now fully "googled". And like the rest of us non-employment lawyers, am now slightly more informed, and a little information can be seriously dangerous!

As for the rest of my post, i'm still pretty sure that 350 is more than twice 150, and that 2 sets of post holders is a waste of money!

max nightstop is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.