Jet2 needs BALPA? 2nd attempt!
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Mumbo Jumbo, stay out of this. You have your opinion, fair enough, but it is not helpful here at this time. It just comes across as spiteful and vitriolic.
I work for J2 and I like it there. I am member of BALPA. I respect the people on the CC and their work.
BALPA work for us. They are member-driven and are there to be used by us to negotioate better with people who may otherwise not pay as much heed. Why not use them for our benefit? That is what they are there for. They are not a magical be-all-and-end-all cure to ills and woes, nor some superhero who steps in to save the day unbidden.
BALPA have limited resources - they have a number of projects on the go at any one time, including "recognition" within companies, and have to choose where to put effort, time and monies. They monitor companies but they don't have a magical database of who is where and a member of what - it's a fluid industry. A lot of info comes from us, the members.
A company can be forced to recognise BALPA but this limits what BALPA can negotiate for on our behalf. It may have to start that way, but it is better if there is an "open-door" in to the company. For BALPA to start pushing, they want to see approx 70% membership - as we all know, if the company doesn't want it, they'll do what they can to halt it and in this case there are always some who don't have to the backbone to stand and be counted or bow to bad propoganda etc. This 70% takes this into account. Once this amount is achieved, BALPA will put resource into making recogniton happen. This is fact - not speculation.
If you are in J2, join BALPA. Yes, the IPA is an option, but it dilutes us.
TGWU - why? MJ is right in one respect at least -office staff and cabin crew won't necessarily stand up for what we want, most likely, and vice versa, so why all lump in together? Plus, BALPA is a specialist "union" for us, so why go elsewhere? Would the TGWU have all the specialist info that BALPA has about merging seniority lists, fixed-rosters, other companies Ts+Cs etc?
The CC work hard but do the comapny listen? Why not give them the backup they deserve. If we have the CC AND BALPA, working together, are we not stronger?
I don't want solid gold meal trays (or any meal tray actually for that matter!) or diamond car passes (company has to make money!) - just decent consultation between the all involved. J2 is a good place to be with a host of fine people working there (in all areas) - let's do what we can now to keep it that way!
JOIN BALPA! JOIN BALPA! JOIN BALPA!
I work for J2 and I like it there. I am member of BALPA. I respect the people on the CC and their work.
BALPA work for us. They are member-driven and are there to be used by us to negotioate better with people who may otherwise not pay as much heed. Why not use them for our benefit? That is what they are there for. They are not a magical be-all-and-end-all cure to ills and woes, nor some superhero who steps in to save the day unbidden.
BALPA have limited resources - they have a number of projects on the go at any one time, including "recognition" within companies, and have to choose where to put effort, time and monies. They monitor companies but they don't have a magical database of who is where and a member of what - it's a fluid industry. A lot of info comes from us, the members.
A company can be forced to recognise BALPA but this limits what BALPA can negotiate for on our behalf. It may have to start that way, but it is better if there is an "open-door" in to the company. For BALPA to start pushing, they want to see approx 70% membership - as we all know, if the company doesn't want it, they'll do what they can to halt it and in this case there are always some who don't have to the backbone to stand and be counted or bow to bad propoganda etc. This 70% takes this into account. Once this amount is achieved, BALPA will put resource into making recogniton happen. This is fact - not speculation.
If you are in J2, join BALPA. Yes, the IPA is an option, but it dilutes us.
TGWU - why? MJ is right in one respect at least -office staff and cabin crew won't necessarily stand up for what we want, most likely, and vice versa, so why all lump in together? Plus, BALPA is a specialist "union" for us, so why go elsewhere? Would the TGWU have all the specialist info that BALPA has about merging seniority lists, fixed-rosters, other companies Ts+Cs etc?
The CC work hard but do the comapny listen? Why not give them the backup they deserve. If we have the CC AND BALPA, working together, are we not stronger?
I don't want solid gold meal trays (or any meal tray actually for that matter!) or diamond car passes (company has to make money!) - just decent consultation between the all involved. J2 is a good place to be with a host of fine people working there (in all areas) - let's do what we can now to keep it that way!
JOIN BALPA! JOIN BALPA! JOIN BALPA!
Join Date: Mar 2005
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The poll was done earlier on in the year on the Jet2 crew forum. It showed over 60% membership and everyone else considering it. However this figure didn't represent the 250 or so pilots as not everyone reads the crew forum.
Actual membership is nearer 30%. As ever apathy reigns, what's in it for me, why should I pay all those subs etc, etc.
As I understand it the company accept that balpa will happen. It won't be long before balpa run a proper targeted campaign for Jet2. But it is going to take a year or so. Look at Easyjet it took time but once everyone got on board they seemed to actually get somewhere.
We just want a fair reward for our services and to make it more of a career airline.
a2d
Actual membership is nearer 30%. As ever apathy reigns, what's in it for me, why should I pay all those subs etc, etc.
As I understand it the company accept that balpa will happen. It won't be long before balpa run a proper targeted campaign for Jet2. But it is going to take a year or so. Look at Easyjet it took time but once everyone got on board they seemed to actually get somewhere.
We just want a fair reward for our services and to make it more of a career airline.
a2d
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As I understand it the company accept that balpa will happen. It won't be long before balpa run a proper targeted campaign for Jet2.
No-one will stand up as 'appointed leader' for fear of management or even worse, not being supported by colleagues when it matters.
If a vote is taken and the 50% + 1 isn't attained then do we get 'another go' the following year or is that it?
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Sorry, 757SB, no offence meant.
It was aimed at those, unlike ourselves, who want the representation and all that comes with it but are not members.... yet!
And BALPA don't know - for sure. They don't hold a database of all our pilots and who is a member or not. They rely on members like us to help them out on that score and give them the info. And things change, so we need to tell them who leaves and joins. In a workforce our size, a move of, say, 10 people can make a big difference if they are members or not. Think of the 73' and how much the trim changes if you move very few people front to back or vice versa!
It was aimed at those, unlike ourselves, who want the representation and all that comes with it but are not members.... yet!
And BALPA don't know - for sure. They don't hold a database of all our pilots and who is a member or not. They rely on members like us to help them out on that score and give them the info. And things change, so we need to tell them who leaves and joins. In a workforce our size, a move of, say, 10 people can make a big difference if they are members or not. Think of the 73' and how much the trim changes if you move very few people front to back or vice versa!
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Must have been someone else at BALPA cos person I spoke to has always been very helpful and informative about the current situation and the bigger picture. They have limited resources like any other organisation so we have to wait our turn, for a more bespoke campaign.
At the moment with only 30% or so membership we are stuffed anyway. Until guys get their short arms into their deep pockets and join up then BALPA will remain as just a professional association for the individual.
If when we get union recognition it would also probabley use the existing CC, giving advice and support as required.
a2d
At the moment with only 30% or so membership we are stuffed anyway. Until guys get their short arms into their deep pockets and join up then BALPA will remain as just a professional association for the individual.
If when we get union recognition it would also probabley use the existing CC, giving advice and support as required.
a2d
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Just listen to yourselves. 
As I mentioned a few months ago, it's the blind leading the blind!
So, Nearly Man, a mate of a mate told you that Balpa were rude and disinterested on the phone. FFS... get a life and try calling them yourself for an accurate opinion. I mean, the sum of your experience of working for UK airlines is...? What was that? How many airlines have you worked for? Oh OK, and that airline had Balpa representation did it? No? Oh, OK. I refer you back to the first paragraph.
The ONLY hope you lot at J2 have for proper representation is a SINGLE union with overwhelming membership and a dedicated company council. Let's see... IPA... Sorry, I fell over laughing at that one. Once again, let's see their track record. Hmm, still waiting...
Joking aside, theres nothing more that most of pilots would like to see is you lot properly represented and negotiating with your management from a position of strength. However, until you get your collective acts together, nothing is going to change and judging by the posts on this thread, I wouldn't advise holding your breath either.
As one other poster pointed out earlier, JOIN BALPA! Until then, we will just keep seeing a repeat of this discussion as your terms and conditions are repeatedly eroded and you will remain the laughing stock of the UK pilot community as you bicker amongst yourselves about which way to move forward. Take a bit of advice from those of us who have worked for and are working for airlines with BALPA recognition.
As I mentioned a few months ago, it's the blind leading the blind!So, Nearly Man, a mate of a mate told you that Balpa were rude and disinterested on the phone. FFS... get a life and try calling them yourself for an accurate opinion. I mean, the sum of your experience of working for UK airlines is...? What was that? How many airlines have you worked for? Oh OK, and that airline had Balpa representation did it? No? Oh, OK. I refer you back to the first paragraph.
The ONLY hope you lot at J2 have for proper representation is a SINGLE union with overwhelming membership and a dedicated company council. Let's see... IPA... Sorry, I fell over laughing at that one. Once again, let's see their track record. Hmm, still waiting...
Joking aside, theres nothing more that most of pilots would like to see is you lot properly represented and negotiating with your management from a position of strength. However, until you get your collective acts together, nothing is going to change and judging by the posts on this thread, I wouldn't advise holding your breath either.
As one other poster pointed out earlier, JOIN BALPA! Until then, we will just keep seeing a repeat of this discussion as your terms and conditions are repeatedly eroded and you will remain the laughing stock of the UK pilot community as you bicker amongst yourselves about which way to move forward. Take a bit of advice from those of us who have worked for and are working for airlines with BALPA recognition.
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Bam,
Care to elaborate?
I heard 737 crews all recieved letters today (recorded delivery) inviting them to a brief tomorrow.....
Jet2 website, Summer 2008 only 6 destinations from MAN, 32 from LBA!!! Errmmmmmm let me think-writing on the wall for the 73 out of MAN me thinks. Crews will probably be asked to up-sticks and hoyk it over to Yorkshire, now that is sure to please everyone
JOIN BALPA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Care to elaborate?
I heard 737 crews all recieved letters today (recorded delivery) inviting them to a brief tomorrow.....
Jet2 website, Summer 2008 only 6 destinations from MAN, 32 from LBA!!! Errmmmmmm let me think-writing on the wall for the 73 out of MAN me thinks. Crews will probably be asked to up-sticks and hoyk it over to Yorkshire, now that is sure to please everyone
JOIN BALPA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Am I reading different posts here? Or is it just the tired old cliche of when someone says something you don't like, you just blame their CRM......
I never understand why pilots are so loath to join a union or association. But don't think of BALPA as a traditional all powerful '70's style industrial behemoth.
You lot have to do all the work, the CC have to organise and cajole the crews whilst hopefuly working well with the management. It is upto you to do something if you aren't happy with how you are being treated.
A group of workers is a much stronger unit to deal with than individuals, you have more bargaining power and less tolerance to shoddy practice. Whether that goes on at Jet2 I don't know, but it is interesting to note that the companies where the staff feel more valued generally have union recognition.
Recognition isn't a panacea, but just a step in the right direction.
Apathy is no excuse, any Jet2 pilot who is worried about taking a 1% paycutm or infact 0.5% in a non recognised company, simply isn't taking into account the long term benefits of having a union. It isn't about beating up the management or going out on strike, but having a mechanism where pilots and management are able to talk, discuss and ultimately agree on what is best for the company AND it's staff.
Union recognition should be good for both the company and the crews. It doesn't have to be about fighting pay cuts and base closures, though a union would make issues like that a lot less of a problem.
I never understand why pilots are so loath to join a union or association. But don't think of BALPA as a traditional all powerful '70's style industrial behemoth.
You lot have to do all the work, the CC have to organise and cajole the crews whilst hopefuly working well with the management. It is upto you to do something if you aren't happy with how you are being treated.
A group of workers is a much stronger unit to deal with than individuals, you have more bargaining power and less tolerance to shoddy practice. Whether that goes on at Jet2 I don't know, but it is interesting to note that the companies where the staff feel more valued generally have union recognition.
Recognition isn't a panacea, but just a step in the right direction.
Apathy is no excuse, any Jet2 pilot who is worried about taking a 1% paycutm or infact 0.5% in a non recognised company, simply isn't taking into account the long term benefits of having a union. It isn't about beating up the management or going out on strike, but having a mechanism where pilots and management are able to talk, discuss and ultimately agree on what is best for the company AND it's staff.
Union recognition should be good for both the company and the crews. It doesn't have to be about fighting pay cuts and base closures, though a union would make issues like that a lot less of a problem.
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And better yet, PM must be rubbing his hands together watching you lot bicker amongst yourselves.
The 1% subscription, is actually less than .4% if you claim the tax back on it
Not a bad return on investment, considering, but only as long as you stick together.
The 1% subscription, is actually less than .4% if you claim the tax back on it
Not a bad return on investment, considering, but only as long as you stick together.
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Thanks. I was hoping for decent and sensible posts when I re-started this thread.
Now, as asked earlier, what is the proper way to get the ball rolling?
An official letter to the Crew Council, aproach BALPA, etc etc??
Sensible answers and discussion please.............
Now, as asked earlier, what is the proper way to get the ball rolling?
An official letter to the Crew Council, aproach BALPA, etc etc??
Sensible answers and discussion please.............
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Join BALPA.
They won't come in unless membership is at a certain level. I for one am going to try and help things along a bit. Do, don't just say, but do what needs to be done.
Agree with your post, Say Again.
They won't come in unless membership is at a certain level. I for one am going to try and help things along a bit. Do, don't just say, but do what needs to be done.
Agree with your post, Say Again.
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Do not touch IPA, they are recognised at ONE airline Astraues! Say no more. BALPA is recognised in 26 airlines and members in lots of others.
All 10% membership allows is a ballot (it is actually15%) Any union with sense doesnt ballot until membership is well over 50%. jet2 aint far off, if you are not in BALPA, join AND get a friend to join!
Good luck
All 10% membership allows is a ballot (it is actually15%) Any union with sense doesnt ballot until membership is well over 50%. jet2 aint far off, if you are not in BALPA, join AND get a friend to join!
Good luck
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I have contacted BALPA directly to see were they stand this was the response:
Thank you for you email.
BALPA membership has many advantages that give value for money to members and peace of mind.
BALPA’s legal services are second to none. Whilst we all hope that we never have cause to use these services the help it provides can be invaluable. In recent times BALPA has helped members faced with losing their pensions, facing disciplinary action because of incidents whilst flying and members needing assistance as a result of passenger action. The cost to an individual of pursuing these claims is prohibitive.
In addition, recent legislation means that you have a legal right to representation from your union should you need it. Again this type of support is invaluable and only available through membership of BALPA.
I would also mention the new tax relief, which BALPA have secured with the Inland Revenue, which applies to 66.7% of your annual BALPA subscription and it has recently been announced that BALPA have agreed a new Fixed Rate Expense Allowance for all company pilots, which is considerably more than any existing allowance.
Jet2 does not currently have the added benefits of BALPA Recognition. In order to achieve this, the law requires a union membership of above 50% with evidence that the majority of the workforce wants Union recognition. Although we are not at these levels at present with colleagues joining and with membership slowly increasing Jet2 will be reviewed in the New Year to anticipate potential for a Recruitment and Recognition campaign. I hope you will consider joining.
Thank you for you email.
BALPA membership has many advantages that give value for money to members and peace of mind.
BALPA’s legal services are second to none. Whilst we all hope that we never have cause to use these services the help it provides can be invaluable. In recent times BALPA has helped members faced with losing their pensions, facing disciplinary action because of incidents whilst flying and members needing assistance as a result of passenger action. The cost to an individual of pursuing these claims is prohibitive.
In addition, recent legislation means that you have a legal right to representation from your union should you need it. Again this type of support is invaluable and only available through membership of BALPA.
I would also mention the new tax relief, which BALPA have secured with the Inland Revenue, which applies to 66.7% of your annual BALPA subscription and it has recently been announced that BALPA have agreed a new Fixed Rate Expense Allowance for all company pilots, which is considerably more than any existing allowance.
Jet2 does not currently have the added benefits of BALPA Recognition. In order to achieve this, the law requires a union membership of above 50% with evidence that the majority of the workforce wants Union recognition. Although we are not at these levels at present with colleagues joining and with membership slowly increasing Jet2 will be reviewed in the New Year to anticipate potential for a Recruitment and Recognition campaign. I hope you will consider joining.