Jet2 needs BALPA? 2nd attempt!
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Jet2 needs BALPA? 2nd attempt!
Let’s try again. The original thread was trashed by Jet2 haters and a series of deleted posts which created nonsense.
In the Jet2 where I work (which seems to be a different one to some of the previous posters), most of us seem to really enjoy working at Jet2 and recognise that we have a lot going for us, despite the “disappointing” pay and conditions which are unlikely to change much. However, there are a few things that need to be improved and/or clarified, much of it at little cost. And soon.
Last year, as soon as Jet2 promised a bit of consultation, the vitriol on Pprune ceased, assisted greatly by the private crew forum. The management would seem to have breathed a sigh of relief. However, after an initial flurry, they have forgotten to actually consult. There is now an overhang of unresolved matters, eg increments and dual basing.
It’s hardly surprising that the vitriol has flared up again, and the management know what to do to discourage it. Just start consulting again.
My question is, do we need BALPA instead? Would a proper BALPA CC do better, particularly if backed up by experienced industrial relations negotiators who could maintain the impetus and oppose any procrastination?
In the Jet2 where I work (which seems to be a different one to some of the previous posters), most of us seem to really enjoy working at Jet2 and recognise that we have a lot going for us, despite the “disappointing” pay and conditions which are unlikely to change much. However, there are a few things that need to be improved and/or clarified, much of it at little cost. And soon.
Last year, as soon as Jet2 promised a bit of consultation, the vitriol on Pprune ceased, assisted greatly by the private crew forum. The management would seem to have breathed a sigh of relief. However, after an initial flurry, they have forgotten to actually consult. There is now an overhang of unresolved matters, eg increments and dual basing.
It’s hardly surprising that the vitriol has flared up again, and the management know what to do to discourage it. Just start consulting again.
My question is, do we need BALPA instead? Would a proper BALPA CC do better, particularly if backed up by experienced industrial relations negotiators who could maintain the impetus and oppose any procrastination?
Last edited by MANBLK; 3rd Jan 2007 at 15:24.
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After the acrimonious debate a year ago, I took the advice and joined BALPA. I don't regret it but at the moment BALPA is completely invisible in Jet2. If you go to the BALPA website, Jet2 does not even exist, it's still Channel Express.
I'm not sure that Jet2 does collective negotiation, with crew reps, BALPA, IPA or anybody. Maybe the answer is to take any problems direct to the man who can fix them. In other words, if you don't like dual basing then complain (again if necessary) direct to NH - all 100 of you if necessary. The same could be applied to any problem.
I'm not sure that Jet2 does collective negotiation, with crew reps, BALPA, IPA or anybody. Maybe the answer is to take any problems direct to the man who can fix them. In other words, if you don't like dual basing then complain (again if necessary) direct to NH - all 100 of you if necessary. The same could be applied to any problem.
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With only one or two exceptions, that seems like a no to BALPA then. Now we know where we stand, let us all give our full support to the Crew Council. And as individuals, nag at management whenever they don't consult.
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The crew council does need everyone's full support. The guys on the council are not mugs and if they feel that their time is being wasted they will be the first to suggest a change of tact and look at the other options available. Remember, these reps aren't getting anything for doing this so their incentive is purely to offer a bridge of communication between the management and to the crews on line. If you don't tell them anything .... don't moan and groan!! 
Just give the council and the management a chance ...... for now at least
Just give the council and the management a chance ...... for now at least
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Fixed Rosters
As many of the Jet2 Drivers may be aware there is move to implement a fixed roster patterns. It’s not known if it’s across all bases or just the major ones
If you have an opinion I would suggest now is the time to speak to your Fleet rep Base Captain or Aircrew manager. There is a thread running on the real names jet2 forum.
It sounds like a 5/4/5/3 system, it could make a big change to all our lives so get on the site and speak your mind.
If you have an opinion I would suggest now is the time to speak to your Fleet rep Base Captain or Aircrew manager. There is a thread running on the real names jet2 forum.
It sounds like a 5/4/5/3 system, it could make a big change to all our lives so get on the site and speak your mind.
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BALPA appears to be doing nothing for Jet2 pilots. Jet2 doesn't even feature on the BALPA website, we are called Channel Express, how long ago was that.
Time to resign and save some hard-earned money? Please prove me wrong.
Time to resign and save some hard-earned money? Please prove me wrong.
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MANBLK,
BALPA cannot and will not do anything untill there is company recognition of the union. This can either be negotiated with management (good luck!), or forced by having 50%+1 membership amongst the crews (which i believe there is)
Good Luck
BALPA cannot and will not do anything untill there is company recognition of the union. This can either be negotiated with management (good luck!), or forced by having 50%+1 membership amongst the crews (which i believe there is)
Good Luck
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Maybe your CC should have a census, to ascertain just how many crew are in BALPA...
As above, if you have 50%+1, your company has to recognise BALPA.
HAVE AN OFFICIAL COUNT, THEN IF YOU MEET REQUIREMENTS INFORM YOUR MANAGEMENT, THEN THEY HAVE TO LISTEN!
Also, ring BALPA, ask them how many crew they have on their books.
As above, if you have 50%+1, your company has to recognise BALPA.
HAVE AN OFFICIAL COUNT, THEN IF YOU MEET REQUIREMENTS INFORM YOUR MANAGEMENT, THEN THEY HAVE TO LISTEN!
Also, ring BALPA, ask them how many crew they have on their books.
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What a sad sight. The blind leading the blind. 
No wonder the pilots at Jet2 can't get their act together and get trodden over by their management. They appear to be very inexperienced with little or no experience of ever having worked for a proper airline where the pilots are represented by a well organised company council backed up by a proper union with all the necessary expertise at hand.
Just one look at MANBLK's first post and then his recommendation that BALPA should be ignored in favour of a weak and ineffectual representatives council just shows how sad and disorganised they are. I'll hazard a guess that the reps council also represents the cabin crew and the office workers.
When are these pilots going to recognise the fact that office workers and cabin crew are not going to fight for your relatively much better off gains just as you pilots won't put your own relatively much better salaries on the line for their relatively much smaller renumeration. It would make a great theatrical farce if anyone ever decided to write this story down for posterity and made a script out of it.
If you indeed have over 50% representation amongst your pilot workforce (which I doubt as so many of the Jet2 pilots are rank amateurs when it comes to industrial relations issues with their almost complete lack of real world experience) and you haven't even got a clue about the legalities of what you can and can't do with regards to organising and getting the necessary recognition from your management, then there's never going to be any hope for you. Surely at least one of you who is a BALPA member has the nounce to get in touch with your union to clarify what the next step is and what can they do to support you in those efforts.
So far, it appears that the holy trinity of the advocates of the workers representative council hold sway and are as easily led to whatever path their management want them to follow. When will some of you ever learn?
Jet2, the low pay airline and likely to stay that way for the forseeable future.
No wonder the pilots at Jet2 can't get their act together and get trodden over by their management. They appear to be very inexperienced with little or no experience of ever having worked for a proper airline where the pilots are represented by a well organised company council backed up by a proper union with all the necessary expertise at hand.
Just one look at MANBLK's first post and then his recommendation that BALPA should be ignored in favour of a weak and ineffectual representatives council just shows how sad and disorganised they are. I'll hazard a guess that the reps council also represents the cabin crew and the office workers.
When are these pilots going to recognise the fact that office workers and cabin crew are not going to fight for your relatively much better off gains just as you pilots won't put your own relatively much better salaries on the line for their relatively much smaller renumeration. It would make a great theatrical farce if anyone ever decided to write this story down for posterity and made a script out of it.
If you indeed have over 50% representation amongst your pilot workforce (which I doubt as so many of the Jet2 pilots are rank amateurs when it comes to industrial relations issues with their almost complete lack of real world experience) and you haven't even got a clue about the legalities of what you can and can't do with regards to organising and getting the necessary recognition from your management, then there's never going to be any hope for you. Surely at least one of you who is a BALPA member has the nounce to get in touch with your union to clarify what the next step is and what can they do to support you in those efforts.
So far, it appears that the holy trinity of the advocates of the workers representative council hold sway and are as easily led to whatever path their management want them to follow. When will some of you ever learn?
Jet2, the low pay airline and likely to stay that way for the forseeable future.
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Well, Mumbo Jumbo, I don't doubt that what you say is 100% correct (I certainly wouldn't dare to argue with you), but it is just possible that the reason that we are so hopeless at organising ourselves into battle is that, as individuals, we are too nice. I certainly can't think of anyone I work with at Jet2 who would post with such a keen display of arrogance.
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MANBLK I'm sorry to say that it doesn't pay in aviation to be too nice! A career in the Ministry would be more appropriate!
I once accepted a Gentlemans agreement from a Flight Ops Manager.
You guessed it! He reneged on the agreement and it lost me the best part of £60k.
Be warned!
Binder
I once accepted a Gentlemans agreement from a Flight Ops Manager.
You guessed it! He reneged on the agreement and it lost me the best part of £60k.
Be warned!
Binder
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MANBLK
The CAA agreed to it on the understanding that the use of the alternate base would be infrequent Now it is obvious that it is being used to get around FTLs, and i believe the men from the ministry are circleing with sharpened pencils!
The CAA agreed to it on the understanding that the use of the alternate base would be infrequent Now it is obvious that it is being used to get around FTLs, and i believe the men from the ministry are circleing with sharpened pencils!
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After flying with people who I thought I'd never hear complain about the airline admitting that it's now time for Jet2 to be unionised / BALPA affiliated, I recon it's time for serious debate again. As we all know, no-one likes to say what they really think on the crew website as 'Big Brother is watching'.
The biggest points that I can see from listening to growing complaints, mostly in the last 6 months are:
I would like to point out two things before any abuse is hurled back:
1. I love flying for Jet2 and I'm not in any hurry to leave. Just because I'm pro BALPA does not make me anti-company!! If anything, managment would be better off too if we were BALPA affiliated. It means that we would have no reason to complain about half as much!
2. I am in no way knocking the hard work of the Crew Council. I think you guys do a great job and put up with a lot of crap from both sides and you get some things pushed through. But think of the things that we could get done with the weight of BALPA behind you!
That's my 2 pence worth of opinion over - I hope that hasn't upset anyone too much!!
The biggest points that I can see from listening to growing complaints, mostly in the last 6 months are:
- Clear and definitive T & C's
- More stable rosters (not necessarily fixed days or less hours) just stable, so we can organise our personal lives better!
- A better working relationship between management and 'bus drivers'. (The personal, small and friendly airline that I remeber seems to be erroding very quickly, especially as they are filling Leeds new offices up with more and and more bean counters and 'middle management'.
- A feeling of being appreciated by the company for the extra hrs and other little things that we don't mind doing all for 'the greater good of the airline'. The recent charge for baggage on staff travel is a classic example.
- I still don't think the dual basing issue has been resolved yet?
I would like to point out two things before any abuse is hurled back:
1. I love flying for Jet2 and I'm not in any hurry to leave. Just because I'm pro BALPA does not make me anti-company!! If anything, managment would be better off too if we were BALPA affiliated. It means that we would have no reason to complain about half as much!
2. I am in no way knocking the hard work of the Crew Council. I think you guys do a great job and put up with a lot of crap from both sides and you get some things pushed through. But think of the things that we could get done with the weight of BALPA behind you!
That's my 2 pence worth of opinion over - I hope that hasn't upset anyone too much!!
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MANBLK
Jet 2's dual basing agreement is audited by the CAA annually. If you don't like it
suggest you advise the Company what you think is wrong with it. If they don't provide a satis reply try [email protected] with examples etc
On the presumption you signed up for willingly the outcome may be on dodgy grounds??
Jet 2's dual basing agreement is audited by the CAA annually. If you don't like it
suggest you advise the Company what you think is wrong with it. If they don't provide a satis reply try [email protected] with examples etc
On the presumption you signed up for willingly the outcome may be on dodgy grounds??
BALPA is big in Monarch and that didn't stop their T&Cs for new guys from being chopped?
Now we have an excellent CC chairman and strong support for the CC. We have achieved an excellent pay deal and the CC are now working to bring the conditions of those on the new contract up to the same standard as the rest of us.
Given a determined membership and a competent CC, BALPA works and works very well. You just have to let the bean counters know that you mean business.
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OK,
In light of recent developments at Jet2.com, lets put together a census. Is there someone with the technical know-how who can start a thread with one of those POLL things for Jet2 guys entitled something like "JET2 PILOT? ARE YOU A BALPA MEMBER?"
Then a few options like:
a.) Yes I am a BALPA member
b.) No I am not a BALPA member, but would consider joining
c.) No don't believe in Unions
d.) Member of another Pilot Union
Main reason for this, it would seem that Jet2 Pilots are too scared of starting such a thread on their company website which is not anonymous. in fear of backlashes from "da management".....
I know there will be a few spoils as it were, but if they can gauge out of the 300ish pilots who are BALPA members, then, just maybe someone will have the bottle to stand up and be counted!
There seems to be lots of guys unhappy with the degradation of some terms and conditions (let alone some of the few perks still left) at Jet2, but ALWAYS the attitude of "we are SORRY for asking", or "not wanting to upset the management". Do you think for one minute when a decision to charge staff for luggage when travelling staff travel "da management" even consider if they are upsetting their staff.....No I don't think so.
STAND UP AND BE COUNTED, IT IS THE ONLY WAY MANAGEMENT WILL BARGAIN WITH YOU. THE CC ARE DOING THEIR BEST, BUT THEY WILL NEVER HAVE AS MUCH CLOUT AS BALPA!
See thread above and what Monarch Pilots have recently achieved with BALPA.
In the mean time, JOIN BALPA!
In light of recent developments at Jet2.com, lets put together a census. Is there someone with the technical know-how who can start a thread with one of those POLL things for Jet2 guys entitled something like "JET2 PILOT? ARE YOU A BALPA MEMBER?"
Then a few options like:
a.) Yes I am a BALPA member
b.) No I am not a BALPA member, but would consider joining
c.) No don't believe in Unions
d.) Member of another Pilot Union
Main reason for this, it would seem that Jet2 Pilots are too scared of starting such a thread on their company website which is not anonymous. in fear of backlashes from "da management".....
I know there will be a few spoils as it were, but if they can gauge out of the 300ish pilots who are BALPA members, then, just maybe someone will have the bottle to stand up and be counted!
There seems to be lots of guys unhappy with the degradation of some terms and conditions (let alone some of the few perks still left) at Jet2, but ALWAYS the attitude of "we are SORRY for asking", or "not wanting to upset the management". Do you think for one minute when a decision to charge staff for luggage when travelling staff travel "da management" even consider if they are upsetting their staff.....No I don't think so.
STAND UP AND BE COUNTED, IT IS THE ONLY WAY MANAGEMENT WILL BARGAIN WITH YOU. THE CC ARE DOING THEIR BEST, BUT THEY WILL NEVER HAVE AS MUCH CLOUT AS BALPA!
See thread above and what Monarch Pilots have recently achieved with BALPA.
In the mean time, JOIN BALPA!
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I completely agree that we need BALPA, but I do not understand what everyone seems to be afraid of? What can management do to us if we all sign up and get union representation? Fire us? No, because we'll have BALPA on our side and then they won't have anyone to fly their planes and they'll go bust in about a week. Make life difficult for us in some way? Probably nothing more than they already do from day to day, so let's just get it sorted for once.
BALPA would be good for us (Pilots) and for the company and if management can't see that then tough. We want the company to do well so we get paid so we are not going to scr*w the thing up by demanding unreasonable terms and conditions, but merely Ts&Cs that we deserve and that are not degraded every year.
Imagine if we get a stable roster, annual increments to reward us for our loyalty, medical insurance, etc, etc... It might actually become a CAREER airline rather than an airline that is fun to work at for a few years and then you move on.
I am very grateful for everything the Crew Council do and the time they giver up to do it, but they have no power to action anything and it only seems like Management will action what they want.
I think we all know and trust the guys on the Crew Council and they have all our email addresses, so perhaps the best thing they could do is to contact everyone find out who is already in BALPA and who is willing to join up and start a real drive to get us some representation?
BALPA would be good for us (Pilots) and for the company and if management can't see that then tough. We want the company to do well so we get paid so we are not going to scr*w the thing up by demanding unreasonable terms and conditions, but merely Ts&Cs that we deserve and that are not degraded every year.
Imagine if we get a stable roster, annual increments to reward us for our loyalty, medical insurance, etc, etc... It might actually become a CAREER airline rather than an airline that is fun to work at for a few years and then you move on.
I am very grateful for everything the Crew Council do and the time they giver up to do it, but they have no power to action anything and it only seems like Management will action what they want.
I think we all know and trust the guys on the Crew Council and they have all our email addresses, so perhaps the best thing they could do is to contact everyone find out who is already in BALPA and who is willing to join up and start a real drive to get us some representation?