Aer Lingus - Direct Entry Pilots
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: balbriggan, ireland
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I suspect they cannot all be wrong. Details on Aer Lingus Union deal and the suggested strike on next Thursday are from Irish newspapers here:-
http://www.sbpost.ie/breakingnews/br...x&n=3987917&x=
http://www.unison.ie/business/storie...=80&si=1645536
Aer Lingus flies off course with unrealistic pay claims
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...252084,00.html
http://www.sbpost.ie/breakingnews/br...x&n=3987917&x=
http://www.unison.ie/business/storie...=80&si=1645536
Aer Lingus flies off course with unrealistic pay claims
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...252084,00.html
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Europe
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thebrother - you have changed your message - I merely referred to the multitude of incorrect "facts" to which you made reference. You have now changed the subject to union-bashing. You even had this to say about your own pension:
.... eh... if you are an existing pensioner how does the new deal apply to you and where does the extra pension come from? Also, did you not previously claim to be a civil servant ... so, where exactly are you coming from (apart from the anti-union and "no pensions for existing employees" stance)?
Now just remind me .... what is it that is printed at the bottom of each pprune page ...
As someone who used to work for Aer Lingus and is a happy pensioner I think the new pay deal and extra pension for me is great
Now just remind me .... what is it that is printed at the bottom of each pprune page ...
As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent.
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Don't really want to get into the whole argument about the union/pension stuff. However am very interested in hearing why the A330 rating is or would ever be useless? With the shortage of pilots at the moment the 330 rating alone will get you a job on just about any Airbus type, so how is it useless? Obviously a statement from someone who spent their career behind a desk and never did more than look out the office window at a 330 on the ramp!
Join Date: Jul 2004
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thebrother said something above that is rather intriguing
Apart from the issue as to whether or not thebrother's facts are correct, it is interesting to see such a comment about Aer Lingus. He not only claims to know precise pilot figures, but he can tell us in advance that the normally compliant Aer Lingus is going to "do a Ryanair" and out-manoeuvre the IAA in some way. All rather interesting from a "former Aer Lingus employee" ... who would presumably be aware that Aer Lingus was, until only a few weeks ago, claiming a substantial pilot surplus! Curious or not?
but they hope to bend or ignore IAA on this problem.
Join Date: Sep 2005
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It's a proven fact of life, that people looking in from the outside, generally haven't a clue as to what is actually happening inside. thebrother just happens to be another one of these people. He may have have been a former employee of Aer Lingus, but he certainly hasn't a clue about the Flight Ops side of the company.
Even before the whole issue of Privatisation raised it's head again this year, the company was heading for problems due to its insistence of a supposed pilot surplus. There is a major shortage of pilots, hence the belated attempt to entice the cadets back. A few have been working for Ryanair, Cityjet and Aer Arran, but most have been working for others. Some have even resigned from BA to return home. Not surprising, when you look at the conditions elsewhere. We might be working upto the flight time limitations nowadays, but at least we have a decent salary, the best pension in the business and one base. Command at Ryanair might sound great, but as those in the industry know - this comes at a price!
I'd love to know how thebrother thinks were going to be 'binning' our seniority agreement! This is the cornerstone of our working life. It affects our pay, working conditions etc.. Flight Ops priority is to crew up the A330, taking into account the new aircraft arrivals. These will be crewed in seniority. Any new recruits cadets or otherwise will end up on the A320/1. Period!
As regards wandering around Dublin with a funny hat and a worthless A330 rating - don't make me laugh. Apart from the fact the the A330 is one of the best ratings anyway, being able to be CCQ in a short time makes it even more attractive. There are loads of jobs out there for A330 type rated guys now. Not that many EI guys would be bothered going elsewhere though - non of us could afford the drop in pay or working conditions. And don't even mention the pension side of things. Thank god we have IALPA and not BALPA looking after our pension.
Finally, I'd love to know how they are going to 'bend or ignore the IAA on this issue'. Whilst the IAA might have a less than perfect reputation. They aren't complete idiots! Unlike some people making anonymous contributions on this forum!
Even before the whole issue of Privatisation raised it's head again this year, the company was heading for problems due to its insistence of a supposed pilot surplus. There is a major shortage of pilots, hence the belated attempt to entice the cadets back. A few have been working for Ryanair, Cityjet and Aer Arran, but most have been working for others. Some have even resigned from BA to return home. Not surprising, when you look at the conditions elsewhere. We might be working upto the flight time limitations nowadays, but at least we have a decent salary, the best pension in the business and one base. Command at Ryanair might sound great, but as those in the industry know - this comes at a price!
I'd love to know how thebrother thinks were going to be 'binning' our seniority agreement! This is the cornerstone of our working life. It affects our pay, working conditions etc.. Flight Ops priority is to crew up the A330, taking into account the new aircraft arrivals. These will be crewed in seniority. Any new recruits cadets or otherwise will end up on the A320/1. Period!
As regards wandering around Dublin with a funny hat and a worthless A330 rating - don't make me laugh. Apart from the fact the the A330 is one of the best ratings anyway, being able to be CCQ in a short time makes it even more attractive. There are loads of jobs out there for A330 type rated guys now. Not that many EI guys would be bothered going elsewhere though - non of us could afford the drop in pay or working conditions. And don't even mention the pension side of things. Thank god we have IALPA and not BALPA looking after our pension.
Finally, I'd love to know how they are going to 'bend or ignore the IAA on this issue'. Whilst the IAA might have a less than perfect reputation. They aren't complete idiots! Unlike some people making anonymous contributions on this forum!
Join Date: May 2005
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Please can anybody give me some information about the T+Cs at EI? Salary, Roster, days off, staff travel etc.
Would really love to find out a little bit more.
Many thanks
dlav
Would really love to find out a little bit more.
Many thanks
dlav
Join Date: Apr 2001
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EI currentl require about50 additional pilots to operate 2007 schedule. approx 36 ex cadets returning so that leaves a hole of about 14 pilots all of whom will join as 320 copilots on the bottom of the seniority list (thebrother is full of s*!:e). As to whether these will be contract(allowed by agreements) or direct entrys is anybodys guess.
Rosters are published 4 weeks in advance and copilots on the 320 are working close to 850 hours per year. Leave equates to almost 7 weeks for a new joiner. 8/9 days off every 28. Performance pay/overtime paid per hour over 520 per year - just in time for Christmas too! Not sure of starting salary - approx 50K euro I think plus company pension contributions.
With the rapid expansion planned, the first new joiners can expect the 330 (or its replacement) in about 3 years.
Rosters are published 4 weeks in advance and copilots on the 320 are working close to 850 hours per year. Leave equates to almost 7 weeks for a new joiner. 8/9 days off every 28. Performance pay/overtime paid per hour over 520 per year - just in time for Christmas too! Not sure of starting salary - approx 50K euro I think plus company pension contributions.
With the rapid expansion planned, the first new joiners can expect the 330 (or its replacement) in about 3 years.
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Thank you St Patrick, I have a few more questions aswell if somebody could take the time to answer.
What is the set up with the A330? ie - will you be on that fleet permenantly or is it a case of one long haul trip/month say, and the rest of the month on the 320? (a similar set up to most uk charter outfits and soon BMI)
Whats the atmosphere like at EI? Good place to be? Happy flying?
Management approachable?
Once again, thank you
dlav
What is the set up with the A330? ie - will you be on that fleet permenantly or is it a case of one long haul trip/month say, and the rest of the month on the 320? (a similar set up to most uk charter outfits and soon BMI)
Whats the atmosphere like at EI? Good place to be? Happy flying?
Management approachable?
Once again, thank you
dlav
Join Date: Sep 2005
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dlav,
Unlike most UK charter airlines, there is no mixed flying within Aer Lingus. I doubt this will change for the foreseable future. This also tends to suit most people - some prefer Europe and other prefer drinking state-side (& now the desert!).
The A330 is crewed purely on seniority. There is a big difference between the lifestyle on Europe and the A330. Europe is considerably busier, and hence most crews are maxing out on the hours. The A330 now is operating to Malaga and Nice in addition to the US and Dubai. It seems like A330 crews are approx 750 hrs per year give or take!
The atmosphere at EI is like most companies at the moment, in a state of transition. If the privatisation finally goes ahead this autumn, then big changes will occur over the next few years. According to the CEO, long haul will be expanded dramitically, which should make for some interesting night stops. Europe will also see some dramatic expansion.
Being a relatively small operator, you have the advantage of knowing virtually all of the crews. Unlike the likes of BA etc, your a name and not a number.
Flight Ops managment are very approachable, and training side of things is excellent. Nobody is trying to catch you out here. If your upto par with the standards and get on with your job, then life is easy. As regards the management from the HOB, then thats a different story and a thread on its own.
Its not paradise here, but as other who have left EI - it certainly isn't easier or better on the other side of the fence.
Unlike most UK charter airlines, there is no mixed flying within Aer Lingus. I doubt this will change for the foreseable future. This also tends to suit most people - some prefer Europe and other prefer drinking state-side (& now the desert!).
The A330 is crewed purely on seniority. There is a big difference between the lifestyle on Europe and the A330. Europe is considerably busier, and hence most crews are maxing out on the hours. The A330 now is operating to Malaga and Nice in addition to the US and Dubai. It seems like A330 crews are approx 750 hrs per year give or take!
The atmosphere at EI is like most companies at the moment, in a state of transition. If the privatisation finally goes ahead this autumn, then big changes will occur over the next few years. According to the CEO, long haul will be expanded dramitically, which should make for some interesting night stops. Europe will also see some dramatic expansion.
Being a relatively small operator, you have the advantage of knowing virtually all of the crews. Unlike the likes of BA etc, your a name and not a number.
Flight Ops managment are very approachable, and training side of things is excellent. Nobody is trying to catch you out here. If your upto par with the standards and get on with your job, then life is easy. As regards the management from the HOB, then thats a different story and a thread on its own.
Its not paradise here, but as other who have left EI - it certainly isn't easier or better on the other side of the fence.
Join Date: Apr 2001
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The jobs you saw for A320 based in Dublin are probably with Eirjet. If and it is a big if, EI use contract pilots they will probably use Parc as they used to own them and have used their services in the past, by the way EI would only be looking for contract co-pilots, they never have employed contract Captains or taken direct entry Captains. As regards being a non-national, that is not a problem as long as you have "the right to live and work in the EU". We have French, Dutch, American, Canadian, Kiwi, Finnish, Scots as well as loads from the UK ( sorrry if I left anyone out!) flying with us.
I`d suggest that you fire in an up to date CV to the personnel department, Address should be on the website. Best of luck!!
I`d suggest that you fire in an up to date CV to the personnel department, Address should be on the website. Best of luck!!
Join Date: May 2005
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thebrother,
I am going to stick my neck out here and say you are disengenuinous (forgive my spelling). Your friends son seems to be far wiser than his parent.
Thats why I think you talk bollo*.
If your friends son is an EI cadet (flying with Ryanair) he is probably in Dublin, he would be due his command, true. What would also be true is that he is being held back for the past 2 yrs. and not given his command as Dublin is frozen. He would also not have recieved a pay rise for a few years. He would have his sector pay severely cut. He would have his medical payment taken away, loss of liscence, he would have had to pay for his 737-800 type rating. He would be randomly been subjected to abusive threats from management.
All in all he would have been out of pocket by about €45k for the past 2 years. True. Add it all up, don't forget the type rating.
It seems to me like the kid has far more sense than daddy.
Getting back to my first point.
You see, I don't think this friend 'Daddy' exists at all.
You seem to me like a RYR management type spinning the usual bullsh1t.
I am going to stick my neck out here and say you are disengenuinous (forgive my spelling). Your friends son seems to be far wiser than his parent.
Thats why I think you talk bollo*.
If your friends son is an EI cadet (flying with Ryanair) he is probably in Dublin, he would be due his command, true. What would also be true is that he is being held back for the past 2 yrs. and not given his command as Dublin is frozen. He would also not have recieved a pay rise for a few years. He would have his sector pay severely cut. He would have his medical payment taken away, loss of liscence, he would have had to pay for his 737-800 type rating. He would be randomly been subjected to abusive threats from management.
All in all he would have been out of pocket by about €45k for the past 2 years. True. Add it all up, don't forget the type rating.
It seems to me like the kid has far more sense than daddy.
Getting back to my first point.
You see, I don't think this friend 'Daddy' exists at all.
You seem to me like a RYR management type spinning the usual bullsh1t.
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Dlav, How long is a piece of string?! hard to say. I am guessing that if the planned expansion goes ahead(and yesterdays dail vote were certainly a step in that direction), You are probably looking at 5 years if you are one of the first to join.
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As regards time to command? How long is a piece of string?
This has varied dramatically over the years, ranging from approx 5-6yrs right upto approx 17yrs. Whilst there was a period of heavy recruitment several years ago, including a mix of cadets and DEP's - there has been none since 2001. The company needs pilots yesterday, and the recalled cadets are just the start. The planned expansion of long-haul and the continued growth of routes on europe will obviously require more pilots.
All the A330's will have proper rest area's (existing ones to be retro-fiited). This in itself implies heavy crews to new long haul destinations. Heavy means more pilots. Therefore time to command will reduce.
But at the end of the day, who actually cares about time to command? As an FO, I actually earn more than captains elsewhere, including those with a harp on the tail! I have better working conditions and a pension. Unlike, the likes a Ryan, Easy etc - Aer Lingus is a career airline (if there is such a thing nowadays?) I have plenty of friends elsewhere, some who even opted to join these airlines, and have since moved on.
To some, command is the be all! Once the novelty of flying a shiny jet 900hrs per year wears off, the most important thing in life becomes lifestyle, followed by perhaps money of course. You'd be surprised at how many senior FO's on the A330 have turned down command on the A320. The increase in pay from a senior FO to a junior Captain isn't that great, whilst the difference in lifestyle is huge.
Bottom line is if your after the left-seat and four stripes within a couple of years, head elsewhere. That said though time to command within Aer Lingus will reduce significently over the next few years.
This has varied dramatically over the years, ranging from approx 5-6yrs right upto approx 17yrs. Whilst there was a period of heavy recruitment several years ago, including a mix of cadets and DEP's - there has been none since 2001. The company needs pilots yesterday, and the recalled cadets are just the start. The planned expansion of long-haul and the continued growth of routes on europe will obviously require more pilots.
All the A330's will have proper rest area's (existing ones to be retro-fiited). This in itself implies heavy crews to new long haul destinations. Heavy means more pilots. Therefore time to command will reduce.
But at the end of the day, who actually cares about time to command? As an FO, I actually earn more than captains elsewhere, including those with a harp on the tail! I have better working conditions and a pension. Unlike, the likes a Ryan, Easy etc - Aer Lingus is a career airline (if there is such a thing nowadays?) I have plenty of friends elsewhere, some who even opted to join these airlines, and have since moved on.
To some, command is the be all! Once the novelty of flying a shiny jet 900hrs per year wears off, the most important thing in life becomes lifestyle, followed by perhaps money of course. You'd be surprised at how many senior FO's on the A330 have turned down command on the A320. The increase in pay from a senior FO to a junior Captain isn't that great, whilst the difference in lifestyle is huge.
Bottom line is if your after the left-seat and four stripes within a couple of years, head elsewhere. That said though time to command within Aer Lingus will reduce significently over the next few years.