Aer Lingus - Direct Entry Pilots
Join Date: Sep 2005
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The question has got to be asked then:
Is there any point in having an open recruitment for the BFS base?
I'm sure there are sufficient "applicants" from DUB to fill all the BFS posts, as has previously been mentioned.
Is there any point in having an open recruitment for the BFS base?
I'm sure there are sufficient "applicants" from DUB to fill all the BFS posts, as has previously been mentioned.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Surrey
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who knows, they had to do it though as at the time they weren't going to use any Dublin people, so needed to at least have people in a shortlist for interviews. If dublin people are used then it will simplify things a lot as they will already be trained. They also have people in the hold pool already selected (so again simplifying things!) ready to fill any FO slots. Whilst you can argue its a little harsh to advertise jobs for belfast and then not use any of the applicants, I think it is EVEN MORE harsh to not give FOs who have been waiting years for their command to be passed over by people outside the company, as well as the 20 people or so in the hold pool who have been waiting for their break only to be passed by other people.......
I guess we'll just see what happens
I guess we'll just see what happens
Join Date: Aug 2007
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IALPA welcomes Aer Lingus recognition
Wednesday, 19 September 2007 13:37
The Irish Airline Pilots Association has said the proposal by Aer Lingus management to recognise the union at its Belfast base is a welcome development.
The association said it is still considering the details of a letter to pilots from the airline.
It also described as welcome the company's willingness to facilitate transfers to Belfast without a requirement to resign, as had previously been the case.
It added, however, that many important issues remain to be resolved.
The proposals aim to break the deadlock over the company's plans to establish a new base in Belfast.
In a letter to pilots, Chief Executive Dermot Mannion said pilots from the Republic may transfer permanently or on temporary secondment, but must accept different terms and conditions while in Belfast.
He was adamant that the airline would not import existing agreements or seniority to the new base, which is due to go into operation on 10 December.
Pilots transferring permanently must move to the lower terms and conditions in Belfast Airport (left). They must also leave the guaranteed pension in the Republic and join a new Defined Contribution scheme in Northern Ireland.
Some pilots may be seconded for up to five years. During that time they will be on Belfast terms and conditions but will revert to Republic terms if they move back. They retain their guaranteed pension rights and service.
First officer salaries will range from £40,000 to £50,000, while captains can earn from £76,000 to £96,520. Promotions to captain positions in Belfast would be on merit not seniority.
The pilots are expected to issue counter proposals after considering this latest document.
Wednesday, 19 September 2007 13:37 The Irish Airline Pilots Association has said the proposal by Aer Lingus management to recognise the union at its Belfast base is a welcome development.
The association said it is still considering the details of a letter to pilots from the airline.
It also described as welcome the company's willingness to facilitate transfers to Belfast without a requirement to resign, as had previously been the case.
It added, however, that many important issues remain to be resolved.
The proposals aim to break the deadlock over the company's plans to establish a new base in Belfast.
In a letter to pilots, Chief Executive Dermot Mannion said pilots from the Republic may transfer permanently or on temporary secondment, but must accept different terms and conditions while in Belfast.
He was adamant that the airline would not import existing agreements or seniority to the new base, which is due to go into operation on 10 December.
Pilots transferring permanently must move to the lower terms and conditions in Belfast Airport (left). They must also leave the guaranteed pension in the Republic and join a new Defined Contribution scheme in Northern Ireland.Some pilots may be seconded for up to five years. During that time they will be on Belfast terms and conditions but will revert to Republic terms if they move back. They retain their guaranteed pension rights and service.
First officer salaries will range from £40,000 to £50,000, while captains can earn from £76,000 to £96,520. Promotions to captain positions in Belfast would be on merit not seniority.
The pilots are expected to issue counter proposals after considering this latest document.
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Anybody been called for Interview yet?
Or are there sufficient already in the Holding pool?
They are leaving it a bit tight if the start date is for December.
Most airlines require at least 3 months notice these days.
BR.
Or are there sufficient already in the Holding pool?
They are leaving it a bit tight if the start date is for December.
Most airlines require at least 3 months notice these days.
BR.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: USA
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DM might be the next MOL if he doesn't stop. I remember a time when EI was one of the most respected carriers here in the states, and Americans dreamed to fly for them.
Now a days thanks to Ryanair, this is a memory.
Is IALPA fighting to keep the bond agreements in place for the NIers so I don't have to shell out another 20,000 euros?
Now a days thanks to Ryanair, this is a memory.
Is IALPA fighting to keep the bond agreements in place for the NIers so I don't have to shell out another 20,000 euros?
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ireland
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EjetS.
Those were the days we paid $550 (400 Euro) to fly DUB/LHR/DUB or DUB/LGW/DUB. A trip of 50mins to 1hr flight time.
To-day the cost with EI is from $95 (68 Euro) incl all taxes etc.
In days gone by it took 3 people to change a 737 flight deck bulb.
To-day it takes one person.
In times gone by everyone who flew EI, BA and other state carriers the general public were paying for overstaffed airlines.
Thanks to the likes of Ryanair this is, more or less, in the past and thanks also to Willie Walsh, EI is a much more efficient airline to-day and not too bloated with excessive staff numbers.
However, everyone knows it still has some 'fat' to get rid off and when this happens EI will be well able to compete with any LCC.
Those were the days we paid $550 (400 Euro) to fly DUB/LHR/DUB or DUB/LGW/DUB. A trip of 50mins to 1hr flight time.
To-day the cost with EI is from $95 (68 Euro) incl all taxes etc.
In days gone by it took 3 people to change a 737 flight deck bulb.
To-day it takes one person.
In times gone by everyone who flew EI, BA and other state carriers the general public were paying for overstaffed airlines.
Thanks to the likes of Ryanair this is, more or less, in the past and thanks also to Willie Walsh, EI is a much more efficient airline to-day and not too bloated with excessive staff numbers.
However, everyone knows it still has some 'fat' to get rid off and when this happens EI will be well able to compete with any LCC.
Join Date: Feb 2006
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From the Aer Lingus Website.
Pilot Pay And Conditions – Information for Candidates
Pay-scales
Point
First Officer Captain
1 £40,000 £76,000
2 £41,200 £78,280
3 £42,400 £80,560
4 £43,600 £82,840
5 £44,800 £85,120
6 £46,000 £87,400
7 £47,200 £89,680
8 £48,400 £91,960
9 £49,600 £94,240
10£50,800 £96,520
Sector Pay
•Sectors divided into bands based on nautical miles
•Same rate of payment for Captains and First Officers
•Average £8,300 per annum
Pension
•Group Personal Pension Plan
•Matched contribution up to 9%
General Terms
Recruitment may be higher up the scale depending on type-hours
Annual Leave
o 28 days (including Public Holidays)
o Increase by 1 day after each of the first 5 years service to max of 33 days
Paid Sick Leave entitlement increases with service to 13 Weeks after 2 years
Medical, Life & Loss of Licence Insurance Provided
Uniform Provided.
Bond for Training Costs
Competitive Promotion
Working Time Limits as per JAR-Ops
More Detailed Terms & Conditions and Working Arrangements will be
provided as the selection process progresses.
BR.
Pilot Pay And Conditions – Information for Candidates
Pay-scales
Point
First Officer Captain
1 £40,000 £76,000
2 £41,200 £78,280
3 £42,400 £80,560
4 £43,600 £82,840
5 £44,800 £85,120
6 £46,000 £87,400
7 £47,200 £89,680
8 £48,400 £91,960
9 £49,600 £94,240
10£50,800 £96,520
Sector Pay
•Sectors divided into bands based on nautical miles
•Same rate of payment for Captains and First Officers
•Average £8,300 per annum
Pension
•Group Personal Pension Plan
•Matched contribution up to 9%
General Terms
Recruitment may be higher up the scale depending on type-hours
Annual Leave
o 28 days (including Public Holidays)
o Increase by 1 day after each of the first 5 years service to max of 33 days
Paid Sick Leave entitlement increases with service to 13 Weeks after 2 years
Medical, Life & Loss of Licence Insurance Provided
Uniform Provided.
Bond for Training Costs
Competitive Promotion
Working Time Limits as per JAR-Ops
More Detailed Terms & Conditions and Working Arrangements will be
provided as the selection process progresses.
BR.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dublin
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Just sure there is NO confusion. The above terms HAVE NOT been agreed with IALPA.
(Oh yes, NO seniority in Belfast is the in the above proposal as well.....just incase you hadn't seen that part yet.)
In fact the above was just "presented" to IALPA as what management want. Another wishlist.
The ban (AFAIK) is still in place. There are NO EI pilots available to check you out.
Welcome onboard? Are you sure?
(Oh yes, NO seniority in Belfast is the in the above proposal as well.....just incase you hadn't seen that part yet.)
In fact the above was just "presented" to IALPA as what management want. Another wishlist.
The ban (AFAIK) is still in place. There are NO EI pilots available to check you out.
Welcome onboard? Are you sure?
Join Date: Aug 2007
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You blokes down in Dublin seem so concerned about what I will earn if I get hired in Belfast. From where I sit at the moment it looks it looks good - would like to know if I will get the same staff travel deal as the Dublin staff.
Join Date: May 2003
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alisha, the fact is you would be taking jobs away from people already in the company. There are loads of FOs who have been waiting years for command to now watch Lingus hire in some random person! Plus there are more then enough people in the hold pool to fill the vacancies, however again Lingus seem to want to ignore that too....
Join Date: Sep 2007
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This is the craic as I see it. Am a bus driver from NI. The missus and family want back to NI. Options...commute and have a cr@p family life (no offence mean't to anyone that does commute). or wait till Easy decide to get their act sorted, or now EI.
All this union stuff is important and although I have thrown my hat in the ring by applying. It doesn't mean I will take the job if the dispute isn't resolved. However, if we hadn't applied in the first place and the union had given the thumbs up, then that would have left us nowhere. Bottom line, everyone wants the best deal. By applying, we are not giving the boys in DUB the finger. We are just expressing our interest in BFS as a base, but ideally if done with union consent.
With any luck it will all be sorted out and we could be one big happy, equally paid family!
All this union stuff is important and although I have thrown my hat in the ring by applying. It doesn't mean I will take the job if the dispute isn't resolved. However, if we hadn't applied in the first place and the union had given the thumbs up, then that would have left us nowhere. Bottom line, everyone wants the best deal. By applying, we are not giving the boys in DUB the finger. We are just expressing our interest in BFS as a base, but ideally if done with union consent.
With any luck it will all be sorted out and we could be one big happy, equally paid family!
Join Date: Aug 2007
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big happy, equally paid family
Step back, take a look at the big picture...what is it that management are wanting to do to you Belfast boys? Think they want a happy family with the dub boys? Hell no.
They want you to be the EI whipping boys. No seniority, poor conditions, no union, less pay.....and when your sent to fly into dublin taking flights away from that base, who'll have the ability to say no?
What happens when the warsaw boys do it to you?
Stay strong and stick together, 1 seniority list, 1 type of aerlingus pilot.
Then we're family.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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You're right, it's not all about the money.
You will find that, out of the numbers that have applied, myself included. Not many will actually accept a position if offered under the current T & C's. The only advantage EI have for me, and probably any other typed bus drivers is the base location.
Pay..Average.
Allowances.. below par.
Hours...JAR Ops ( that means maxed out)
Pension.. a disgrace!
The only guys out there that would go for the deal, are going to be flybe skippers who are being shafted harder where they are. And to be honest I can't blame them. It is fine sat here from the LHS with another bus operator, but when a carrot like that is dangled infront of those guys. It's hard to blame them. TC's way better.
Not that i think it's right to danggle that carrot to the poor guys, bet not one turbo-prop skipper gets a job. Harsh but true. just telling it as it is.
Getting back to the point. We are with you guys. The only way to get it sorted though, is for the union and its member to have some backbone and get it sorted. Hit'em where it hurts. And quick, I ain't half getting some grief from the missus who frankly doesn't give a stuff about this. She just wants home!
You will find that, out of the numbers that have applied, myself included. Not many will actually accept a position if offered under the current T & C's. The only advantage EI have for me, and probably any other typed bus drivers is the base location.
Pay..Average.
Allowances.. below par.
Hours...JAR Ops ( that means maxed out)
Pension.. a disgrace!
The only guys out there that would go for the deal, are going to be flybe skippers who are being shafted harder where they are. And to be honest I can't blame them. It is fine sat here from the LHS with another bus operator, but when a carrot like that is dangled infront of those guys. It's hard to blame them. TC's way better.
Not that i think it's right to danggle that carrot to the poor guys, bet not one turbo-prop skipper gets a job. Harsh but true. just telling it as it is.
Getting back to the point. We are with you guys. The only way to get it sorted though, is for the union and its member to have some backbone and get it sorted. Hit'em where it hurts. And quick, I ain't half getting some grief from the missus who frankly doesn't give a stuff about this. She just wants home!
Join Date: Aug 2007
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The only way to get it sorted though, is for the union and its member to have some backbone and get it sorted. Hit'em where it hurts.
http://www.independent.ie/national-n...e-1058326.html
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/bre.../breaking2.htm
Sound familiar? To be told that we "need to do something" when I've already put my job on the line in trying to defend pilots I don't yet know is hard to swallow.
However I'm big enough to be able to take the long term view of all this and realise that most of the guys applying for these jobs will never appreciate what was done on behalf of them until it's probably too late.
The short sightedness of pilots never ceases to amaze me. Ironic considering what we actually put into practice when we take to the air (if we are proper professionals).
As for you wife sir. If you are unable to control that small problem, it's going to get a hell of a lot tougher if you come back.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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alisha said:
OH BRAVO!
So at that stage you didn't know what salary you would be on.
You didn't know ANY working conditions.
There was strong rumours of NO seniority list.
There was likely to be a poor pension.
You were going to be breaking a recruitment ban.
You knew there would be no job security...
And the only f%$king thing going through your mind was, can I get some cheapo tickets to visit my mistress in Rome?
Pathetic.
You blokes down in Dublin seem so concerned about what I will earn if I get hired in Belfast. From where I sit at the moment it looks it looks good - would like to know if I will get the same staff travel deal as the Dublin staff.
So at that stage you didn't know what salary you would be on.
You didn't know ANY working conditions.
There was strong rumours of NO seniority list.
There was likely to be a poor pension.
You were going to be breaking a recruitment ban.
You knew there would be no job security...
And the only f%$king thing going through your mind was, can I get some cheapo tickets to visit my mistress in Rome?
Pathetic.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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P2C - you obviously have no regard for women, wives , families. In fact you cant even spot one. But your very concerned about protecting what you boys in dublin have - dressed up in how much your going to do for us!