FlyBe to acquire BA Connect (Crew thread - no spotters)
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flybe don't need to instantly start flying all the routes, they can simply cherry-pick the ones they want and build up slowly.
With the numbers of people leaving BACON, flybe may struggle to operate many of the BA regional routes come April. I accept, eliminating it's competition will still be a pretty useful development on it's own!
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Tandem
I do not believe there is such a thing as a route licence anymore - at least within the UK. The problem JF will have is getting the airport operating slots. If he buys BACON he will have effectively bought the slots. If he dosen't then there is competition for who gets them. The thing is he needs to buy BACON and put crewed a/c on the warm routes to retain the slots and customers. BACON have a good proportion of the peak slots at man & bhx.
I do not believe there is such a thing as a route licence anymore - at least within the UK. The problem JF will have is getting the airport operating slots. If he buys BACON he will have effectively bought the slots. If he dosen't then there is competition for who gets them. The thing is he needs to buy BACON and put crewed a/c on the warm routes to retain the slots and customers. BACON have a good proportion of the peak slots at man & bhx.
Thread Starter
I think you are right Thumper, its the peak slots into the major European cities that are of value. If they are left dormant for too long, they are lost forever. I woldn't be surprised if son of Bacon somehow managed to hold back some of these for later.
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biddedout
I think its the pilot experience requirement which is the priority. This cannot be obtained by force because it tends to think for itself! It can only be persuaded. There is no doubt that flybe can have an average of 8-10 years experience in the LHS. It will just take them about 15 years of good T'&C's to get it - unless they persuade that experience to migrate and stay put.
The routes are secondary but still very important.
Regards
Thumper
I think its the pilot experience requirement which is the priority. This cannot be obtained by force because it tends to think for itself! It can only be persuaded. There is no doubt that flybe can have an average of 8-10 years experience in the LHS. It will just take them about 15 years of good T'&C's to get it - unless they persuade that experience to migrate and stay put.
The routes are secondary but still very important.
Regards
Thumper
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So, to summarise;
Apart from the slots, the routes, the experienced crews, the pension deficit payments and the trainers,..... what have the Romans ever done for us?
Apart from the slots, the routes, the experienced crews, the pension deficit payments and the trainers,..... what have the Romans ever done for us?
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The Jersey Government has just announced that it has decided to object to the merger and report it to the competition commission. The main sticking point is the Gatwick route. Under the agreement BA can have no competition against Flybe and that means no BA route between JER and LGW. Flybe would then be the sole operator of the route which is not in the States interest. The plot thickens!!
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This is all getting out of hand. I'm in Flybe and I'd welcome the merger/take-over (call it what you will), but I can fully appreciate the concerns that our (future?) chums in BACON have. After the lack/minimum info coming out, if I was in their shoes I'd be off somewhere else "like a rat up a rhododendron bush". Very sad - it could have all been handled so much better - with a bit of thought. However, I don't think there was much thought directed to the potential problems of merging the 2 workforces.
I don't know where it's going to end, but what ever happens I wish you guys in BA Connect all the best. I hope if we meet in a bar somewhere in the future we can have a beer together without trying to beat the living s£$% out of each other. I've seen that in a former life and its isn't nice and in the main it's completely unnecessary.
I don't know where it's going to end, but what ever happens I wish you guys in BA Connect all the best. I hope if we meet in a bar somewhere in the future we can have a beer together without trying to beat the living s£$% out of each other. I've seen that in a former life and its isn't nice and in the main it's completely unnecessary.
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Politicians and Airlines
Do Jersey States know what they are doing when in comes to aviation and airline routes?
Over the years they have maid a number of errors to do with aviation, is this going to be another one, they could end up with a lot of egg on there face due to not understand the full picture??
Mainline is one unit
Bacon is a slice of the other.
Jersey are trying to get a heathrow route back well there must be some politicians with big dreams at night.
Over the years they have maid a number of errors to do with aviation, is this going to be another one, they could end up with a lot of egg on there face due to not understand the full picture??
Mainline is one unit
Bacon is a slice of the other.
Jersey are trying to get a heathrow route back well there must be some politicians with big dreams at night.
There is nothing about this on the Jersey Competition Regulatory Authority website. Nor is there anything on Channel Island news bulletins.
Hudson Bay can you please reveal the source of your information?
Also I seem to remember it being announced originally that Flybe & BA would continue to compete on the JER LGW route.
Hudson Bay can you please reveal the source of your information?
Also I seem to remember it being announced originally that Flybe & BA would continue to compete on the JER LGW route.
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I hope if we meet in a bar somewhere in the future we can have a beer together without trying to beat the living s£$% out of each other.
It's the mgmt and potential loss of T's&C's that I think is grating with most of us.
I'll buy you a beer in the spirit of 'entente'
MB
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I agree, as I've said before, the vast majority of BACON pilots have no gripe with anyone at the sharp end in FlyBe. We all do the same job be it on a Q400, a 145, a 146 or a 195. It is rediculous in this day and age that there is still the vast salary difference between the jet and the TP especially when, revenue wise in a company like FlyBe, they are earning similar £/mile/seat revenue for the company. The reason for the (completely illegal by the way) square bond is that FlyBe know how unhappy their new recruits are going to be very quickly. That's like confessing "We are crap we will treat you like S**t !"
The other load of rubbish is that giving the crews stable rosters is inefficient and costs the company money! What costs companies money is crewing fire fighting. The most efficient and cheapest way to run an airline is crew it properly, roster it efficiently and "FLY THE PLAN !". Ok that is not always possible people do go sick, but, you should have adequate stand by cover. If sickness is excessive then your problem isn't sickness ! I remember when BACX crewing were essentially operating CWL and BRS as one crew base. It was not unusual to have BRS crews flying from CWL and CWL crews flying from BRS all as changes and fleets of taxis shuttling between the two.
The reason most BACON pilots want out is that they don't want to go back to that and from the outside that is how it looks. If you want to live somewhere specific like IOM, SOU, etc.. you will put up with a lot to stay at home, but, if you live in the midlands or Manchester there are just so many more possibilities. If you are going to be messed about at least the financial compensation will be worth it !
BACON pilots don't have anything against FlyBe it's just that all FlyBe are offering is Less Money for More Work for Less Life and no career progression for any current Captain. The future may not be bright but at least it will be more comfortable moaning from the RHS of a 319 !
If FlyBe want more to stay they are going to have to start seriously looking at how they are approaching, not just us but their current workforce as well. At the moment it is a pilot's market. My advice is find where you want to be in five years and get there now before it all changes. If FlyBe management are treating the workforce badly now, wait until things change - and they will !
Good Luck to all !
The other load of rubbish is that giving the crews stable rosters is inefficient and costs the company money! What costs companies money is crewing fire fighting. The most efficient and cheapest way to run an airline is crew it properly, roster it efficiently and "FLY THE PLAN !". Ok that is not always possible people do go sick, but, you should have adequate stand by cover. If sickness is excessive then your problem isn't sickness ! I remember when BACX crewing were essentially operating CWL and BRS as one crew base. It was not unusual to have BRS crews flying from CWL and CWL crews flying from BRS all as changes and fleets of taxis shuttling between the two.
The reason most BACON pilots want out is that they don't want to go back to that and from the outside that is how it looks. If you want to live somewhere specific like IOM, SOU, etc.. you will put up with a lot to stay at home, but, if you live in the midlands or Manchester there are just so many more possibilities. If you are going to be messed about at least the financial compensation will be worth it !
BACON pilots don't have anything against FlyBe it's just that all FlyBe are offering is Less Money for More Work for Less Life and no career progression for any current Captain. The future may not be bright but at least it will be more comfortable moaning from the RHS of a 319 !
If FlyBe want more to stay they are going to have to start seriously looking at how they are approaching, not just us but their current workforce as well. At the moment it is a pilot's market. My advice is find where you want to be in five years and get there now before it all changes. If FlyBe management are treating the workforce badly now, wait until things change - and they will !
Good Luck to all !
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I'm sorry I just don't buy that
I would imagine the agreement was BA would not compete with Flybe on a BAcon route after the sale - LGW/JER is far too high yield (remind me please of any other domestic service that still runs with club!) for BA to give away. And likewise with Flybe, I can't see Jim French handing over his LGW passengers on an established route (oh yeah, thats what he's buying BAcon for isn't - established routes)
If and only if BA were to give Flybe their JER/LGW slots as part of the package or vice versa Flybe give BA would the Jersey governemt have a reason to go to the monopolies and mergers commission and raise an objection.
They both keep the route, there's still competition
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I dont buy it either.
When BA sold GO to its managers it was clear from day 1 that GO would compete with BA (CX as it then was).
The question of a "no competition clause on established cross boarder routes" was then raised. The answer was that legally no such clause would be allowed by Regulators and was unenforceable in any event.
And so it was.............and thus GO then EASY flourished as BA (CX) declined.
So to suggest that such a clause would stand up here is at fours with the above.
When BA sold GO to its managers it was clear from day 1 that GO would compete with BA (CX as it then was).
The question of a "no competition clause on established cross boarder routes" was then raised. The answer was that legally no such clause would be allowed by Regulators and was unenforceable in any event.
And so it was.............and thus GO then EASY flourished as BA (CX) declined.
So to suggest that such a clause would stand up here is at fours with the above.