FlyBe to acquire BA Connect (Crew thread - no spotters)
Guest
Posts: n/a
Good idea....I'll throw a quid in for starters....
Seriously, tomorrow, the BACON CC will be spending a few days in Exeter with the other union groups and hopefully will be able to thrash out some kind of deal with their counterparts. From all I hear, JF's timetable is impossibly tight, and unrealistic, but all sides are doing their utmost to sift through the info and get to the table.
Wish them all well, and fingers crossed that something palatable to us all may emerge. Just don't hold your breath too long.
Seriously, tomorrow, the BACON CC will be spending a few days in Exeter with the other union groups and hopefully will be able to thrash out some kind of deal with their counterparts. From all I hear, JF's timetable is impossibly tight, and unrealistic, but all sides are doing their utmost to sift through the info and get to the table.
Wish them all well, and fingers crossed that something palatable to us all may emerge. Just don't hold your breath too long.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Manchester
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thats an interesting thought Hudson.
May I just say that I rather suspect that the sheer sums of money involved (which are not JF's) might act as a moderating influence on any innate tendency to chuck proverbials out of the pram!! This after all is a man who wishes to show the city and the investing public that their money is safe in his hands!!
On the BACON buy out front, interesting thought, but the scale of the operation would make that very difficult in terms of attracting the venture capital needed to not only take over the operation but also invest in the new equipment which is so desperately needed.
The principle and overriding reason that BACON failed to make a profit was because it was based on an eighties business model and ham strung by archaic BA costs. All the company infrastructures, systems, operations and AOC are there just waiting for the right direction and investment.
Although much hot air has been blasted around this forum about our Ts and Cs the reality is that these are a small part of the overall picture and the reality is that given the bad mangement we have and lack of investment I dare to suggest that we are actualy not half a bad operation.
As JF knows there is no shortage of people willing to chuck money at this industry, none more so than the aircraft manufacturers who I assume have substantialy capitalised Flybe's growth projections. We are where Flybe was a few years ago and six months in this industry is like twelve years in any other. Huge profits and massive losses go with the territory in this industry and there always seem to be those who are prepared to gamble on it.
All in all Id say that some sort of staff buyout could work but only given very strong leadership from a lead investor and a totaly new management structure.
May I just say that I rather suspect that the sheer sums of money involved (which are not JF's) might act as a moderating influence on any innate tendency to chuck proverbials out of the pram!! This after all is a man who wishes to show the city and the investing public that their money is safe in his hands!!
On the BACON buy out front, interesting thought, but the scale of the operation would make that very difficult in terms of attracting the venture capital needed to not only take over the operation but also invest in the new equipment which is so desperately needed.
The principle and overriding reason that BACON failed to make a profit was because it was based on an eighties business model and ham strung by archaic BA costs. All the company infrastructures, systems, operations and AOC are there just waiting for the right direction and investment.
Although much hot air has been blasted around this forum about our Ts and Cs the reality is that these are a small part of the overall picture and the reality is that given the bad mangement we have and lack of investment I dare to suggest that we are actualy not half a bad operation.
As JF knows there is no shortage of people willing to chuck money at this industry, none more so than the aircraft manufacturers who I assume have substantialy capitalised Flybe's growth projections. We are where Flybe was a few years ago and six months in this industry is like twelve years in any other. Huge profits and massive losses go with the territory in this industry and there always seem to be those who are prepared to gamble on it.
All in all Id say that some sort of staff buyout could work but only given very strong leadership from a lead investor and a totaly new management structure.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Middle Earth
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seniority again
Several pages ago, a flybe poster said this:
"If you do want to join, then please think how YOU would feel if the situations were reversed. Please be honest when you pose this question.
Think about whether, in all honesty, you think a seniority list will REALLY make much difference anyway, particularly given total numbers of hulls and likely basings"
So far as BRAL/Brymon merger goes, we were all in that position old chap. sensible mature discussions between the CC's & their members produced a solutiuon everyone was reasonable happy with. Would you prefer to dump on BACON pilots than have that?
As for "what use is a sentority list anyhow". Why are you so insistent you should be on top then?
You may like to consider that BRAL pilots only got BALPA recognition because Brymon already had it. The same scene applies here too. You should try to look at the advantages of joint action instead of lobbying for supremacy.
Supremacy is one thing nobody but management will get choosing that route. Get a life & some maturity.
Also the post from Noiffs above sums it up well. If you think that WW could just bin BACON & walk away how could he do that? It's not insolvent, so can't go bust. The payouts would be Ginormous. So forget that little fantasy.
Flybe -pilots & management alike - will have to negotiate a deal. That's what the law & trade unions are about, see.
"If you do want to join, then please think how YOU would feel if the situations were reversed. Please be honest when you pose this question.
Think about whether, in all honesty, you think a seniority list will REALLY make much difference anyway, particularly given total numbers of hulls and likely basings"
So far as BRAL/Brymon merger goes, we were all in that position old chap. sensible mature discussions between the CC's & their members produced a solutiuon everyone was reasonable happy with. Would you prefer to dump on BACON pilots than have that?
As for "what use is a sentority list anyhow". Why are you so insistent you should be on top then?
You may like to consider that BRAL pilots only got BALPA recognition because Brymon already had it. The same scene applies here too. You should try to look at the advantages of joint action instead of lobbying for supremacy.
Supremacy is one thing nobody but management will get choosing that route. Get a life & some maturity.
Also the post from Noiffs above sums it up well. If you think that WW could just bin BACON & walk away how could he do that? It's not insolvent, so can't go bust. The payouts would be Ginormous. So forget that little fantasy.
Flybe -pilots & management alike - will have to negotiate a deal. That's what the law & trade unions are about, see.
Last edited by Xploy Ted; 11th Dec 2006 at 18:08. Reason: addition
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 530
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anotherflapoperator -
No change there then - the same can be used to describe our overall schedule at Flybe. The only way we can arrive on time nowadays is to leave 10 - 15 minutes ahead of the scheduled departure time! 
JF's timetable is impossibly tight, and unrealistic
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: East Midlands Airport (EMA)
Posts: 906
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At least flybe have now set up a Q&A page for both BA Connect and flybe crew through the website http://www.nextgenerationairline.com. It seems that a lack of communication is the big problem in all of this, in what would otherwise seem like a good deal from a commercial standpoint.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Congratulations to P Hutchings on becoming cheif Pilot of the new airline,BA Cityflyer and his brother-in-law C Phelan on his post as,Chief Pilot designate.Well done, glad you can both sleep at night now in the run up to christmas knowing that your jobs are safe.
Did anyone see the positions advertised?
Did anyone see the positions advertised?
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Rock
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The names in the frame have been published (Bacon Intranet) and all will be glad to see that most of the old upper team have secured a place for now either with BACF or the 'transition' team; which has as its GM our dear friend - S Witts. If any one was looking for some fresh blood to guide us from this dark place then abandon all hope for now.................
Somehow this is no surprise
Somehow this is no surprise
Last edited by Island Jockey; 12th Dec 2006 at 15:53. Reason: 'typo'
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: In every hotel ever built
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There has been some debate, and indeed repudiation, by some FlyBE personel about this being a takeover and NOT a merger.
May I bring to their attention that FlyBE management have lodged their intention with ‘The Office of Fair Trading’ to MERGE FleBE and BA Connect.
http://www.oft.gov.uk/Business/Merge...ions/index.htm
And no before you ask, I am not one of the Bacon guys to be going to FlyBE.
May I bring to their attention that FlyBE management have lodged their intention with ‘The Office of Fair Trading’ to MERGE FleBE and BA Connect.
http://www.oft.gov.uk/Business/Merge...ions/index.htm
And no before you ask, I am not one of the Bacon guys to be going to FlyBE.
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: BHX
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jaq
Whilst the link is what it is - we have (hopefully) left the squabbling stage well behind now. Who cares what it is -merger, takeover or aquisition - lets get on with it and the sooner the better. The new company will be an excellent airline with good prospects for all of its united workforce.
Whilst the link is what it is - we have (hopefully) left the squabbling stage well behind now. Who cares what it is -merger, takeover or aquisition - lets get on with it and the sooner the better. The new company will be an excellent airline with good prospects for all of its united workforce.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: South London
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jaq ... thats funny, the link you posted leads to an OFT page which states:
Parties: Anticipated acquisition by Flybe Group Limited of the BA Connect business - issued 11/12/2006
Affected sector: Airline transport
Case officer: Chris Bowden 020 7211 8916
Email: [email protected]
Deadline for comments: 27/12/2006
Where exactly have the Flybe management told the OFT its a merger?
And no I am not arguing is it a merger or a take-over, it is what it is, lets stop arguing over a word.
As for Fred Elliot. If he is on the Flybe CC, its shame he isn't as vocal on the Flybe staff forum website, it would be nice to hear the opinions of a CC member address to his actual members. Oh well, as said before hopefully Fred is currently thinking long and hard. Resignation?
Parties: Anticipated acquisition by Flybe Group Limited of the BA Connect business - issued 11/12/2006
Affected sector: Airline transport
Case officer: Chris Bowden 020 7211 8916
Email: [email protected]
Deadline for comments: 27/12/2006
Where exactly have the Flybe management told the OFT its a merger?
And no I am not arguing is it a merger or a take-over, it is what it is, lets stop arguing over a word.
As for Fred Elliot. If he is on the Flybe CC, its shame he isn't as vocal on the Flybe staff forum website, it would be nice to hear the opinions of a CC member address to his actual members. Oh well, as said before hopefully Fred is currently thinking long and hard. Resignation?
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: BHX
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AC
I said "Whilst the link is what it is - we have (hopefully) left the squabbling stage well behind now. Who cares what it is -merger, takeover or aquisition - lets get on with it and the sooner the better."
If you look at the link it is under the heading of OFT Mergers.
As previously stated:
Whilst the link is what it is - we have (hopefully) left the squabbling stage well behind now. Who cares what it is -merger, takeover or aquisition - lets get on with it and the sooner the better.
I believe Fred Elliot has probably gone a bit quiet for a reason - its unlikely he will be as vocal on pprune now, unless he has a change of persona! - He is probably busy negotiating a nice new scheduling agreement as we speak.
good old fred
I said "Whilst the link is what it is - we have (hopefully) left the squabbling stage well behind now. Who cares what it is -merger, takeover or aquisition - lets get on with it and the sooner the better."
If you look at the link it is under the heading of OFT Mergers.
As previously stated:
Whilst the link is what it is - we have (hopefully) left the squabbling stage well behind now. Who cares what it is -merger, takeover or aquisition - lets get on with it and the sooner the better.
I believe Fred Elliot has probably gone a bit quiet for a reason - its unlikely he will be as vocal on pprune now, unless he has a change of persona! - He is probably busy negotiating a nice new scheduling agreement as we speak.
good old fred
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Nova
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Carnage Matey
It may not be appropriate to be discussing the 'new' EDI RJ operation here, since as we all know it is not included in the package presented to Flybe.
However, there is an alternative to that operation breaching the scope agreement. This is another deal that is not yet done!
It may not be appropriate to be discussing the 'new' EDI RJ operation here, since as we all know it is not included in the package presented to Flybe.
However, there is an alternative to that operation breaching the scope agreement. This is another deal that is not yet done!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Southampton
Age: 56
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To all my BA Connect friends,I have been at Flybe for 6 weeks now and its the best move I could of made.Dont leave to spite Connect,if you want the regional thing then this is it.
The 400 is a monster,a lot closer to the 145 to fly and a long way from the 300.Seen some pretty stuck up posts from a few Connect pilots ,Flybe pilots I can assure you we are not like this in the flesh!
As for Fred ,well I was on the BRAL CC and we used to dabble a bit on prune along with our then managment, a truce was called and it all went in house.Dont take the moral high ground just because you identify posters.
Hope to see you all soon.
The 400 is a monster,a lot closer to the 145 to fly and a long way from the 300.Seen some pretty stuck up posts from a few Connect pilots ,Flybe pilots I can assure you we are not like this in the flesh!
As for Fred ,well I was on the BRAL CC and we used to dabble a bit on prune along with our then managment, a truce was called and it all went in house.Dont take the moral high ground just because you identify posters.
Hope to see you all soon.
