British KLM pilots to ballot for stike action
If what was said is true. That is a flagrant breach not only of european law but of basic human rights.
Knowing many ex Air UK pilots & their calibre in the Channel Islands I am frankly disgusted
Knowing many ex Air UK pilots & their calibre in the Channel Islands I am frankly disgusted
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BALPA squandered all the bargaining chips a long time ago and also managed to lose a legal action that should have been a straightforward win. After that KLM management realised who had the bigger teeth out of the VNV and BALPA and have treated all the UK pilots accordingly ever since. As much as we all hate to admit it, if we were KLM we'd have probably done the same. All that can be done now is for those of you who remain to try to prevent the total degradation of your position (if it hasn't happened already): or leave like most have done. Frankly there just aren't enough of you left to do much else, unless BALPA has woken up that is and is prepared to get tough and not just talk it...
I know a lot of the UK guys would like 'revenge', but the greatest form of revenge is to just be happy. Unless you are close to retirement I can't imagine many can be truly happy in KLC knowing you will always be second class citizens.
Finally remember how useful BALPA have been in both the BUZZ and KLMuk situations and maybe think very carefully about wasting so much money each month in your next job. Especially when the IPA is out there for a lot less money...
I hope all works out for you guys who've stuck it out. God knows you deserve it...
I know a lot of the UK guys would like 'revenge', but the greatest form of revenge is to just be happy. Unless you are close to retirement I can't imagine many can be truly happy in KLC knowing you will always be second class citizens.
Finally remember how useful BALPA have been in both the BUZZ and KLMuk situations and maybe think very carefully about wasting so much money each month in your next job. Especially when the IPA is out there for a lot less money...
I hope all works out for you guys who've stuck it out. God knows you deserve it...
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Discrimination is a Dutch cultural practise.
Have you ever heard the term 'Double Dutch' ? Untill you've lived in Holland (as an expat) you won't realy appreciate the term. A situation develops, you try to get a reasoned logical answer for it, it never happens, all you get is a lot of words in Nederlandse. When you finaly translate it, it makes no sense whatsoever = Double Dutch.
Discrimination is practiced by the Dutch on the Dutch !
There was a group of 10 or so students of the KLM flight accademy who all passed the course. They were waiting for KLM recruitment which was pretty slow at the time. KLC was however recruiting and they all aplied and KLC management (then 100% KLM pilots) recruited what they thought was the best of the group for the 5 positions being offered.
About 9 months or so later the remaining 5 were recruited into KLM. So all students got a job eventually. Sounds like a happy ending doesn't it ? Not so !
The 5 who were recruited FIRST - into KLC - had to wait 6 years before they could transfer to KLM. OK, so be it, staff stability etc etc. BUT on transfer KLC to KLM, they would loose half their seniority. So 6 years service = 3 years seniority = 2 years and 3 months BEHIND their colleagues who were recruited into KLM AFTER them.
I wrote several letters to the VNV over this. They didn't answer one. That's another Dutch trait. If they don't like facing the situation they just ignore it, hoping it will go away.
So its a double whammy, They disriminate (even amongst their own) and they ignore you when you complain about it.
Discrimination is practiced by the Dutch on the Dutch !
There was a group of 10 or so students of the KLM flight accademy who all passed the course. They were waiting for KLM recruitment which was pretty slow at the time. KLC was however recruiting and they all aplied and KLC management (then 100% KLM pilots) recruited what they thought was the best of the group for the 5 positions being offered.
About 9 months or so later the remaining 5 were recruited into KLM. So all students got a job eventually. Sounds like a happy ending doesn't it ? Not so !
The 5 who were recruited FIRST - into KLC - had to wait 6 years before they could transfer to KLM. OK, so be it, staff stability etc etc. BUT on transfer KLC to KLM, they would loose half their seniority. So 6 years service = 3 years seniority = 2 years and 3 months BEHIND their colleagues who were recruited into KLM AFTER them.
I wrote several letters to the VNV over this. They didn't answer one. That's another Dutch trait. If they don't like facing the situation they just ignore it, hoping it will go away.
So its a double whammy, They disriminate (even amongst their own) and they ignore you when you complain about it.
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No 'may apply' about it 'nb', it's modus operandi as far as KLM is concerned.
As to the rest of the Dutch community, you may well have a point, although the 'ignore it and hopefully it will go away' technique seems to be well practiced in my experiences, but the're outside aviation so not relevent to this forum.
As to the rest of the Dutch community, you may well have a point, although the 'ignore it and hopefully it will go away' technique seems to be well practiced in my experiences, but the're outside aviation so not relevent to this forum.
ooiz, you're going a bit too far. KLM FlightAcademy traditionally places crew with KLM, and does not have any official relation to the company.
They did the first guys a favor, and these boys took it; the other ones were luckier afterwards, but had a couple of nailbiting months before that happy event. In good Dutch it's called: De koe in de kont kijken.
And somehow I think this is totally off topic, since most of these boys will have a great career ahead off them whereas the collaegues from the Island have there lives put upside down.
To compare the fate of a couple of these twentysomething year old "broekemannetjes" with a group of senior KLMuk pilots is even insulting in my view.
They did the first guys a favor, and these boys took it; the other ones were luckier afterwards, but had a couple of nailbiting months before that happy event. In good Dutch it's called: De koe in de kont kijken.
And somehow I think this is totally off topic, since most of these boys will have a great career ahead off them whereas the collaegues from the Island have there lives put upside down.
To compare the fate of a couple of these twentysomething year old "broekemannetjes" with a group of senior KLMuk pilots is even insulting in my view.
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Going too far ? . . . " No way josé !"
ray cosmic, If you re-read my post you should realise I am not in any way commenting about what the KLM flight accademy did or did not do. It was only refering to the FACT that those recruited into KLM mainline about 9 months AFTER those recruited into KLM via the regional division KLc were placed over two years AHEAD of their colleagues who were recuited BEFORE them. Get it ? That's discrimination, the same as the UK guys are trying to deal with at the moment ! Whether it was a 'nail biting' time whilst the second group waited has nothing to do with it.
Are you seriously trying to tell me that just because all of them in the group I described now have a good long term career ahead of them in KLM that discrimination at the beginning of that career, or at any other time for that matter, is acceptable ? I hope not, but that's what it comes over like. You didn't give one word of explanation as to why this blatantly discriminatiory practice is acceptable ! Not one word !
I was only using it to empasise the point that discrimination has been practised in VNV/KLM negitiations for a long time. It rears its ugly head again in the treatment of the UK guys (& gals).
The KLc pilots had to run this 'selection proceedure' gauntlet before, so it's just history repeating itself. The earlier KLc guys had to wait 8 years (then reduced to 6) before being able to transfer (& Please also note I am refering to KLc and not to the earlier NLM integration). But first it was the Psycho tests, Sim checks and Interviews. Then if after this they were deemed suitable, they could apply for the next vacancy in KLM but, of course, loose half their seniority in the process.
This is discrimination ! If the KLc Check and Training organisation, set up by seconded KLM pilots to the very same RLD rules and regulations they were subject to. If they couldn't weed out the incompetents or below standard pilots (if there were any), then it's a reflection on KLM not KLc. The one and only purpose of this so called 'selection proceedure' was to minimise the number of pilots transfering from KLc and thus enhance the career prospects of KLM pilots at their expense. Amongst the KLc group were pilots with 10,000 hrs plus in a wide variety of aircraft, F50 to 747's, in world wide operations.
To have these people in the KLM experience base is to enhance to whole body !
LIKEWISE, The UK guys should be welcomed into the KLM fold as what they are; A highly experienced and professional group of pilots. To subject them to the so called 'selection proceedure' is blatant discrimination !
Are you seriously trying to tell me that just because all of them in the group I described now have a good long term career ahead of them in KLM that discrimination at the beginning of that career, or at any other time for that matter, is acceptable ? I hope not, but that's what it comes over like. You didn't give one word of explanation as to why this blatantly discriminatiory practice is acceptable ! Not one word !
I was only using it to empasise the point that discrimination has been practised in VNV/KLM negitiations for a long time. It rears its ugly head again in the treatment of the UK guys (& gals).
The KLc pilots had to run this 'selection proceedure' gauntlet before, so it's just history repeating itself. The earlier KLc guys had to wait 8 years (then reduced to 6) before being able to transfer (& Please also note I am refering to KLc and not to the earlier NLM integration). But first it was the Psycho tests, Sim checks and Interviews. Then if after this they were deemed suitable, they could apply for the next vacancy in KLM but, of course, loose half their seniority in the process.
This is discrimination ! If the KLc Check and Training organisation, set up by seconded KLM pilots to the very same RLD rules and regulations they were subject to. If they couldn't weed out the incompetents or below standard pilots (if there were any), then it's a reflection on KLM not KLc. The one and only purpose of this so called 'selection proceedure' was to minimise the number of pilots transfering from KLc and thus enhance the career prospects of KLM pilots at their expense. Amongst the KLc group were pilots with 10,000 hrs plus in a wide variety of aircraft, F50 to 747's, in world wide operations.
To have these people in the KLM experience base is to enhance to whole body !
LIKEWISE, The UK guys should be welcomed into the KLM fold as what they are; A highly experienced and professional group of pilots. To subject them to the so called 'selection proceedure' is blatant discrimination !
