BA Connect T&Cs
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BA Connect T&Cs
I currently work for a regional UK turboprop company, passed the citiexpress/connect selection recently, hoping for EMB 145 at BHX or MAN and would appreciate info on-
roster pattern( days on/off, sectors etc)?
number of nightstops?
current morale with the threat from WW to make money or else?
opportunity to move to mainline?
any other info
Many Thanks
roster pattern( days on/off, sectors etc)?
number of nightstops?
current morale with the threat from WW to make money or else?
opportunity to move to mainline?
any other info
Many Thanks
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FF
You won't find a better short haul scheduling agreement anywhere.
Period.
The airline seems to be on the 'up' at the moment, though it can give the impression of being 'penny wise, pound stupid', or however that saying goes!
I don't believe it improves your chances of moving to mainline, though if you do get in, you will have the advantage of some SOP similarities. (monitored approaches etc.)
You won't find a better short haul scheduling agreement anywhere.
Period.
The airline seems to be on the 'up' at the moment, though it can give the impression of being 'penny wise, pound stupid', or however that saying goes!
I don't believe it improves your chances of moving to mainline, though if you do get in, you will have the advantage of some SOP similarities. (monitored approaches etc.)
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FF, I can only comment on the 145. Out of MAN the vast majority of the nightstops have dried up and we're left with just a GLA spit. Out of BHX, it's a completely different story. Those boys and girls are maxed out on touring. From memory, they get DUS, FRA, STR and GLA.
Out of MAN, it's mainly 2 sector days with the odd 4 sector day thrown in. It's the other way round out of BHX. Mostly 3-4 sectors with the odd splattering of a 2 sector day for good behavour.
The flying is fun, the crews are friendly and as Tandemrotor says, the sched. agreement is top notch.
Enjoy!
MB
Out of MAN, it's mainly 2 sector days with the odd 4 sector day thrown in. It's the other way round out of BHX. Mostly 3-4 sectors with the odd splattering of a 2 sector day for good behavour.
The flying is fun, the crews are friendly and as Tandemrotor says, the sched. agreement is top notch.
Enjoy!
MB
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The 145 fleet in BHX is still under crewed so that would be your most likely destination. BHX roster is mostly 4 sector day trips or 3/4 sector nightstops or 3 day tours. Example of a normal day trip is BHX-ABZ-BHX-FRA-BHX. A nightstopping duty is normally something like BHX-CDG-BHX-DUS nightstop DUS-BHX-ABZ-BHX. One tour currently being rostered is BHX-STR-BHX-DUS nightstop DUS-BHX-LYS-BHX-DUS nightstop DUS-BHX-LYS-BHX.
Night stopping destinations are DUS, FRA, STR and GLA.
The MAN crews have just the split duty in GLA.
Expect to work 5 on 2 off although there is the occasional 6 on 3 off pattern floating around the system. There is the odd STBY day here and there but at the moment you will work them. There is no Airport STBY on the 145 at BHX although I believe there is one at MAN.
You can request up to five days off per month which you will get if it is possible and you can request up to four TRUMP days off per year which you must be given unless there is a very strong reason why not. Initial holiday is 30 days but you are given 4 wrap around days for each leave period so essentially leave is taken as a five day block with four additional days off which you can choose to take before, after or split either side. Basically giving you a week off with both weekends. After five years you get another five days.
Pay is similar to other airlines of this type and there is (at the moment) plenty of opportunities for overtime which can significantly increase your bank balance !
As Tandem said the scheduling agreement is about the best you are going to get anywhere.
The 145 is a nice little jet if a bit cramped and a bit of a handful if the wind blows in the wrong direction. You would enjoy your time on it.
The atmosphere at BHX is pleasant the crews are friendly and there is a bit of social life going on if you know where to look for it. BHX is an easier place to work from than MAN and you can walk from the Car Park !
It isn't all sunshine and light though you will work some long four sector days, at BHX you will sometimes get a month where you rarely see your own bed (OK for some not for others) and there is the lingering uncertainty about what BA intends to do with the company. There is little or no prospect of a command within about 8 years as the company has significantly shrunk in the passed three years. There are a lot of very senior FOs with a lot of experience and seniority so a bit of extra experience over someone else won't enable you to jump the queue. BACON isn't a back door into mainline. If you want to go to big BA then your best bet is trying to join a charter/lc outfit doing two years there then applying. But having said that the grass is no greener anywhere else, it just has bigger planes parked on it. (If that's your bag). I have got friends who have left to join other airlines who now regret their decision although there are also plenty who haven't ! All these factors are leading to the company having a high turn over of Jet FOs at the moment.
Don't let that put you off though. If you come to BHX you will work hard but the opportunity is there to get some valuable experience and have a good time. Most ex-BACON pilots seem to have no trouble getting jobs elsewhere and paying the bond back after a year isn't too taxing if you get a good enough job !
Night stopping destinations are DUS, FRA, STR and GLA.
The MAN crews have just the split duty in GLA.
Expect to work 5 on 2 off although there is the occasional 6 on 3 off pattern floating around the system. There is the odd STBY day here and there but at the moment you will work them. There is no Airport STBY on the 145 at BHX although I believe there is one at MAN.
You can request up to five days off per month which you will get if it is possible and you can request up to four TRUMP days off per year which you must be given unless there is a very strong reason why not. Initial holiday is 30 days but you are given 4 wrap around days for each leave period so essentially leave is taken as a five day block with four additional days off which you can choose to take before, after or split either side. Basically giving you a week off with both weekends. After five years you get another five days.
Pay is similar to other airlines of this type and there is (at the moment) plenty of opportunities for overtime which can significantly increase your bank balance !
As Tandem said the scheduling agreement is about the best you are going to get anywhere.
The 145 is a nice little jet if a bit cramped and a bit of a handful if the wind blows in the wrong direction. You would enjoy your time on it.
The atmosphere at BHX is pleasant the crews are friendly and there is a bit of social life going on if you know where to look for it. BHX is an easier place to work from than MAN and you can walk from the Car Park !
It isn't all sunshine and light though you will work some long four sector days, at BHX you will sometimes get a month where you rarely see your own bed (OK for some not for others) and there is the lingering uncertainty about what BA intends to do with the company. There is little or no prospect of a command within about 8 years as the company has significantly shrunk in the passed three years. There are a lot of very senior FOs with a lot of experience and seniority so a bit of extra experience over someone else won't enable you to jump the queue. BACON isn't a back door into mainline. If you want to go to big BA then your best bet is trying to join a charter/lc outfit doing two years there then applying. But having said that the grass is no greener anywhere else, it just has bigger planes parked on it. (If that's your bag). I have got friends who have left to join other airlines who now regret their decision although there are also plenty who haven't ! All these factors are leading to the company having a high turn over of Jet FOs at the moment.
Don't let that put you off though. If you come to BHX you will work hard but the opportunity is there to get some valuable experience and have a good time. Most ex-BACON pilots seem to have no trouble getting jobs elsewhere and paying the bond back after a year isn't too taxing if you get a good enough job !
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CheekyVisual - you are right in what you say however the whole culture of BACON is flawed and will be it's reason for it's demise in exactly two years.
The unsuited fleet, the two sector days,the scheduling agreement, the BAR culture & the expensive hotac/ touring costs along with the "we are little BA" etc etc are exactly why BACON will never be competitive and is doomed. Word is that most of the assets of the operation are leased to around mid 2008 and not beyond - even the new head office has an end date.
Willie Walsh created the BACON brand to be seen not be a ruthless hatchet man and give it a chance- when the party is over he will simply shrugg his shoulders and say he gave it a chance as he locks the hangar doors.
He and others know It is impossible to turn around a huge loss over recent years into a competitive operation able to compete with FlyBE, Baby and Easyjet.
BACON will go the same way LufthansaCityline are going - sadly the con trails will evaporate and they will vanish into history.
BACON is made up of some really good people out on the line however the way the business has been managed by the clowns in MAN since the merger has certyainly sealed it's fate - had it adopted a "GO" concept and leased a bunch of midlife 737's then the story might have changed.Had BA not flogged GO in the first place then a competitive BA branded low cost could have been a real front runner and blazed a trail into EZY/FR/BE territory. That commercial mistake has sealed the fate of BACON.
Good luck guy's and Gal's!!!!!
The unsuited fleet, the two sector days,the scheduling agreement, the BAR culture & the expensive hotac/ touring costs along with the "we are little BA" etc etc are exactly why BACON will never be competitive and is doomed. Word is that most of the assets of the operation are leased to around mid 2008 and not beyond - even the new head office has an end date.
Willie Walsh created the BACON brand to be seen not be a ruthless hatchet man and give it a chance- when the party is over he will simply shrugg his shoulders and say he gave it a chance as he locks the hangar doors.
He and others know It is impossible to turn around a huge loss over recent years into a competitive operation able to compete with FlyBE, Baby and Easyjet.
BACON will go the same way LufthansaCityline are going - sadly the con trails will evaporate and they will vanish into history.
BACON is made up of some really good people out on the line however the way the business has been managed by the clowns in MAN since the merger has certyainly sealed it's fate - had it adopted a "GO" concept and leased a bunch of midlife 737's then the story might have changed.Had BA not flogged GO in the first place then a competitive BA branded low cost could have been a real front runner and blazed a trail into EZY/FR/BE territory. That commercial mistake has sealed the fate of BACON.
Good luck guy's and Gal's!!!!!
Last edited by Bacon Slicer; 15th May 2006 at 18:02.
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FF - On one hand BACON loads are up well above what was needed to turn the loss around. The management are out to exploit the workforce though (gloating in CRM courses that pilots would not be getting a pay rise...whilst they are issued with a shiney new BMW each).
The only real problem on the horizon is that the majority of crews are seriously
with the WW threat to shut us down (having worked so hard for so long before he arrived to make it work). This means that a huge number of people are now looking to move (we lost almost 100 last year). As airline recruitment builds up over the next 12 months it may well be a similar number lost again but with a lot more Captains leaving. The problem is that profits will be badly hit from the disruption caused as the company try to train up so many new Captains and new F/Os over such a short period.
Bottom line...good experience / routes etc which will enable you to get another job before it all goes pear shaped.
The only real problem on the horizon is that the majority of crews are seriously
with the WW threat to shut us down (having worked so hard for so long before he arrived to make it work). This means that a huge number of people are now looking to move (we lost almost 100 last year). As airline recruitment builds up over the next 12 months it may well be a similar number lost again but with a lot more Captains leaving. The problem is that profits will be badly hit from the disruption caused as the company try to train up so many new Captains and new F/Os over such a short period. Bottom line...good experience / routes etc which will enable you to get another job before it all goes pear shaped.
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And talking of no pay rises ... the latest negotiations 'on the table' at BACON/Balpa are for a 2 year deal, paying c.2.2% for the first year and 3.5% for the second year.
Fair enough you may say, but when the company says the increases will only be paid at the end of the tax year ON CONDITION that the company hits its targets I wonder if more pilots will not just get up and leave.
Therefore if targets are not hit (and they can be set at any level) there is no pay increase or more to the point (taking into account inflation) a pay decrease!
I'm sure the management know what they are doing ....
LTF
Fair enough you may say, but when the company says the increases will only be paid at the end of the tax year ON CONDITION that the company hits its targets I wonder if more pilots will not just get up and leave.
Therefore if targets are not hit (and they can be set at any level) there is no pay increase or more to the point (taking into account inflation) a pay decrease!
I'm sure the management know what they are doing ....
LTF
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Here are two stories to illustrate what I mean about this sad operation:-
1.Not long ago a BACON (ex BRymon PLH skipper) refused to despatch from BHX until he was furnished with clean headset wipes despite having some on his person - a delay was incurred- the pax would have been very supportive of him had they been told this!
2. Only this Saturday lunchtime I heard on London a BACON emb145 climbing out of either MAN or BHX requesting an expiditious climb and routing as I quote " we are low on fuel" - what is going on with this silly outfit??????
2 years from now the BACON fleet will be parked up at IOM and Woodford with engines blanks in and grass growing around the undercarrieges if things do not change very soon!
Does anybody have an alternative view?
1.Not long ago a BACON (ex BRymon PLH skipper) refused to despatch from BHX until he was furnished with clean headset wipes despite having some on his person - a delay was incurred- the pax would have been very supportive of him had they been told this!
2. Only this Saturday lunchtime I heard on London a BACON emb145 climbing out of either MAN or BHX requesting an expiditious climb and routing as I quote " we are low on fuel" - what is going on with this silly outfit??????
2 years from now the BACON fleet will be parked up at IOM and Woodford with engines blanks in and grass growing around the undercarrieges if things do not change very soon!
Does anybody have an alternative view?
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How a bout a thread that actually looks at the positive sides of BACON? fed up reading how bad the company is, if anybody does not like the T&Cs or the company then you know what to do dont let the door hit you on the way out!!! The grass is always greener elsewhere but remember its still grass!
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Thanks for your kind comments Leviathan - however I have been involved in a few commercial operations in my time but this lot took the biscuit!
Never have I seen an operation that flings itself headlong towards the abyss with such energy - Walsh knows exactly what his plans are for Bacon, maybe the name BA Abattior would fit better. lots of good people out on the line, some not so good, but overall the whole airline is subjected to complete muppetry by the silly boy's in MAN HQ.
Never have I seen an operation that flings itself headlong towards the abyss with such energy - Walsh knows exactly what his plans are for Bacon, maybe the name BA Abattior would fit better. lots of good people out on the line, some not so good, but overall the whole airline is subjected to complete muppetry by the silly boy's in MAN HQ.
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One thing to remember if you go and work for BACON is that you will need to immediately adopt the standard "Big bad BA have shafted us" attitude and say it to anyone who is bored enough to listen.
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many thanks for all your good and not so good views of connect.
Looking from outside, incidents like the headset wipe, say something about the company culture.
my only concern is leaving a succesful company for something better to find it shut down in 2 years by WW if not profitable.
Once again, thanks for your comments.
Looking from outside, incidents like the headset wipe, say something about the company culture.
my only concern is leaving a succesful company for something better to find it shut down in 2 years by WW if not profitable.
Once again, thanks for your comments.
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Good points at BACON,
1 If I say the plane is TEC then thats it, no BS from managment.
2 If I am 5 mins late on pushback because I am doing the right thing then no come back and no BS from managment
3 The company has a proper flight safety dept and SESMA helping me to be my best.
4 The company train me over that required by the CAA so when it all goes wrong I have a better chance of doing the right thing.
5 Great FOs and CC(always get a few odd ones but thats what you get in aviation)
6 Fantastic shed agreement(thanks BALPA),I get most weekends off via bid,I get 5 days off a year for birthdays etc).
7.I get 5 weeks holiday a year
8 If I work a day off(my choice no forced draft) i earn what a flying instructor makes in a month.
9 Free uniform,sims and training ,medicals etc
10 Very few night stops, I am enjoying seeing my children grow
11 Decent business pax who know how to conduct themselves on an aeroplane
12 BA staff travel
13 Free crew food
14 2 bids a year to change fleet, base etc
15 No more than 750 hours flying a year.
I could just as well write a list of things I dont like here,we have had a difficult few years with intergration issues but we seem to be through that now and we will do really well or go Pop...who knows
1 If I say the plane is TEC then thats it, no BS from managment.
2 If I am 5 mins late on pushback because I am doing the right thing then no come back and no BS from managment
3 The company has a proper flight safety dept and SESMA helping me to be my best.
4 The company train me over that required by the CAA so when it all goes wrong I have a better chance of doing the right thing.
5 Great FOs and CC(always get a few odd ones but thats what you get in aviation)
6 Fantastic shed agreement(thanks BALPA),I get most weekends off via bid,I get 5 days off a year for birthdays etc).
7.I get 5 weeks holiday a year
8 If I work a day off(my choice no forced draft) i earn what a flying instructor makes in a month.
9 Free uniform,sims and training ,medicals etc
10 Very few night stops, I am enjoying seeing my children grow
11 Decent business pax who know how to conduct themselves on an aeroplane
12 BA staff travel
13 Free crew food
14 2 bids a year to change fleet, base etc
15 No more than 750 hours flying a year.
I could just as well write a list of things I dont like here,we have had a difficult few years with intergration issues but we seem to be through that now and we will do really well or go Pop...who knows