Revised Pay Offer to easyJet Pilots - April 2006
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: ...
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by qwertyuiop
NSF,
Didn't you strongly support the previous offer aswell?
Didn't you strongly support the previous offer aswell?
But you could have found this out by yourself!
But why are you bashing the people who think this is a reasonable deal?
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Blighty
Posts: 568
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think what you guys need to realise is that although the pay offer is not breathtaking, you need to consider where it all started, EZY were giving BPFA (Best Part of F*&$ All) and thru the CC a little more was on offer.
The issue with most EZY guys and the ones that left in recent times was more to do with lifestyle than anything else, I when I was at EZY would have quite happily taken no payrise for a decent lifestyle, the current rostering is crippling to say the least.
EZY needs to focus on becoming a career airline which it clearly isnt at the moment. It needs a decent pension, private healthcare, positioning pay but first it needs to sort the rostering out. I cant see how anyone could work for a full career without burning out.
The whole industry is watching you guys closely so dont let it slip away you currently have the management by the couilles...
Good luck
The issue with most EZY guys and the ones that left in recent times was more to do with lifestyle than anything else, I when I was at EZY would have quite happily taken no payrise for a decent lifestyle, the current rostering is crippling to say the least.
EZY needs to focus on becoming a career airline which it clearly isnt at the moment. It needs a decent pension, private healthcare, positioning pay but first it needs to sort the rostering out. I cant see how anyone could work for a full career without burning out.
The whole industry is watching you guys closely so dont let it slip away you currently have the management by the couilles...
Good luck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: 'An Airfield Somewhere in England'
Posts: 1,094
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
qwertyuiop - as has been stated I thought the last one was OK until I checked the figures and saw that it was not fair to all. I personally would have done well out of it but others would not so I voted against it. In the best Pprune traditions, people will inevitably lambast those that disagree with them. The bottom line for me is that this is a good deal that is the best in the industry this year. Many of you posting here have completely unrealistic expectations of what could be sensibly achieved. The danger of furthering this dispute is that the management dig in and tough it out - we could end up losing much of what we have gained.
It is unfashionable in circles such as this forum to talk of the importance of maintaining a vibrant and successful company. I am unashamedly out to make easyJet work and not to make it fail. Anyone reading my previoius posts will that I am radically opposed to the management greed and ineptitude that has characterised our company in the past. I am nonetheless keen to see easyJet do well and in my judgement a strike would be disastrous for the company, its passengers and its staff. A strike over pay at the current time, particularly with only limited support, would be industrial suicide. Given the choices facing us, I stand by my view that this is a good deal and a 'Yes' vote is the only wise option. If that makes me a fool then so be it.
It is unfashionable in circles such as this forum to talk of the importance of maintaining a vibrant and successful company. I am unashamedly out to make easyJet work and not to make it fail. Anyone reading my previoius posts will that I am radically opposed to the management greed and ineptitude that has characterised our company in the past. I am nonetheless keen to see easyJet do well and in my judgement a strike would be disastrous for the company, its passengers and its staff. A strike over pay at the current time, particularly with only limited support, would be industrial suicide. Given the choices facing us, I stand by my view that this is a good deal and a 'Yes' vote is the only wise option. If that makes me a fool then so be it.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flaps, the only people to lose at easyJet are those who slave away the best working years of their life and expect to have more than a s..t sandwich at the end of it. That would be all of us, in case you hadn't noticed. Or at least those without a final salary pension from elsewhere propping them up.
The last deal would have put more into everyone's pension than the one on current offer and taken the possibility of losing the bonus for a non profit year. The company, unfortunately dressed it up in the usual fashion with a bunch of clauses designed to make things easier for them in the future and sneak a little bit back on the sector pay. (Every penny counts when you need the cash for contract staff, wet leased charters, positioning taxis, hotels and crazy recruiting schemes overseas!) Instead of trying to sort out the glitches in what was basically a soundly structured deal they chose to take their bat and ball and not play anymore and offer the current deal. Which once again is a rejig of the same cash pot, maybe a little more than what was originally touted, but still far short of the stated aims of the CC. I can understand why just over half the voting population will accept this. I will accept the majority decision (as if there were any other choice). I am just tired of being told what constitutes a 'great deal' and how scared people are of fighting for a better deal because the oil price is going up, blahdy, blahdy, blah. The industry has always gone up and down like a yo-yo. You need to get the best deal that you can when you are in a position to do so. The company has been over the last few years, and most thought that now was our turn to get a little back. It is apparent now that we don't really have the b..ls for the fight that would be needed to sort out a lot of the problems that we face. I personally don't hold out any hope for the so called 'lifestyle' negotiations. You can't negotiate with the likes of some of our current management, they are too far removed from the reality of 12/4 and will not give anything away without getting more back for it. When it comes down to it people still won't be prepared to really fight for it anyway. The oil situation will still be there, mortgages won't have gone away. We are a barking dog on a chain, noisy and angry looking, but still on a chain. If it has taken this long to sort out a pay deal how long do you think it will take to sort out 'lifestyle' in a company with knackered crew, not enough of them and no real hope of getting people to come, let alone keep the ones they have. In the mean time those of us with 20 or 30 years left in the industry (or less depending on the kero supply) will continue to vote with our feet and find a real career airline elsewhere.
No real surprises with any of this. EJ is a company that you come to, to get what is required for a better job, and then you move on. The people who stay do so for reasons usually tied up with family (not that you get to see them) and location. They would probably like to leave but it suits them not to and they will continue to bark and put up with what is thrown inside the reach of the chain. Not knocking them for it, as i can understand it totally, just that it is not for me. If i can get off the orange chain i will.
The last deal would have put more into everyone's pension than the one on current offer and taken the possibility of losing the bonus for a non profit year. The company, unfortunately dressed it up in the usual fashion with a bunch of clauses designed to make things easier for them in the future and sneak a little bit back on the sector pay. (Every penny counts when you need the cash for contract staff, wet leased charters, positioning taxis, hotels and crazy recruiting schemes overseas!) Instead of trying to sort out the glitches in what was basically a soundly structured deal they chose to take their bat and ball and not play anymore and offer the current deal. Which once again is a rejig of the same cash pot, maybe a little more than what was originally touted, but still far short of the stated aims of the CC. I can understand why just over half the voting population will accept this. I will accept the majority decision (as if there were any other choice). I am just tired of being told what constitutes a 'great deal' and how scared people are of fighting for a better deal because the oil price is going up, blahdy, blahdy, blah. The industry has always gone up and down like a yo-yo. You need to get the best deal that you can when you are in a position to do so. The company has been over the last few years, and most thought that now was our turn to get a little back. It is apparent now that we don't really have the b..ls for the fight that would be needed to sort out a lot of the problems that we face. I personally don't hold out any hope for the so called 'lifestyle' negotiations. You can't negotiate with the likes of some of our current management, they are too far removed from the reality of 12/4 and will not give anything away without getting more back for it. When it comes down to it people still won't be prepared to really fight for it anyway. The oil situation will still be there, mortgages won't have gone away. We are a barking dog on a chain, noisy and angry looking, but still on a chain. If it has taken this long to sort out a pay deal how long do you think it will take to sort out 'lifestyle' in a company with knackered crew, not enough of them and no real hope of getting people to come, let alone keep the ones they have. In the mean time those of us with 20 or 30 years left in the industry (or less depending on the kero supply) will continue to vote with our feet and find a real career airline elsewhere.
No real surprises with any of this. EJ is a company that you come to, to get what is required for a better job, and then you move on. The people who stay do so for reasons usually tied up with family (not that you get to see them) and location. They would probably like to leave but it suits them not to and they will continue to bark and put up with what is thrown inside the reach of the chain. Not knocking them for it, as i can understand it totally, just that it is not for me. If i can get off the orange chain i will.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So, to be fair, nobody is actually losing out on this pay offer, just certain bits and pieces when compared with the offer that was rejected by 86% of the membership (including me, by the way!).
The loyalty bonus 'profit clause' is currently the existing rule, and always has been, so no change there. I agree it would have been much better to have it in the basic pay as part of the previous offer, but that was rejected.
It would indeed be marvellous to cherry pick the best bits of all proposals but sadly that is seldom/never the case in reality.
What is on offer is 6% on top of your current pay (basic, sector pay and bonus), back-dated to Oct 05, plus another 4% on top of all that in Oct 06.
Further contribution to pension remains a personal issue which is a great shame but, until a change of culture occurs at the top end of the company, it's difficult to see what can be done other than chipping away at the conscience. The best remaining option has to be to increase the pay as much as possible to make the company contribtion worth more in terms of cash rather than percentage.
Sure it's not perfect, or even wonderful, but I personally believe it's worth a 'yes'.
The loyalty bonus 'profit clause' is currently the existing rule, and always has been, so no change there. I agree it would have been much better to have it in the basic pay as part of the previous offer, but that was rejected.
It would indeed be marvellous to cherry pick the best bits of all proposals but sadly that is seldom/never the case in reality.
What is on offer is 6% on top of your current pay (basic, sector pay and bonus), back-dated to Oct 05, plus another 4% on top of all that in Oct 06.
Further contribution to pension remains a personal issue which is a great shame but, until a change of culture occurs at the top end of the company, it's difficult to see what can be done other than chipping away at the conscience. The best remaining option has to be to increase the pay as much as possible to make the company contribtion worth more in terms of cash rather than percentage.
Sure it's not perfect, or even wonderful, but I personally believe it's worth a 'yes'.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you have no representation - you have no influence and things simply get imposed.
If you have half representation - you get to start applying some influence and have an affect on all sorts of issues. That influence is, however, limited.
With strong representation you can have a direct affect (as Balpa has done with part time conditions, pay offer from 0% in Oct up to 6% now, FREA more than doubled, and at last the start of some sense on command upgrades, DECs and base transfer policies etc).
None of the above would have happened without formal representation unless you happen to think the half-assed money-grabbing management would have offered it out of the goodness of their own hearts perhaps!!!
What you will never have, even with 100% membership, is any union running the company and simply dictating terms. I cannot think of any airline where this happens - not even the biggest. Maybe it would be a good idea though!!?!
If you have half representation - you get to start applying some influence and have an affect on all sorts of issues. That influence is, however, limited.
With strong representation you can have a direct affect (as Balpa has done with part time conditions, pay offer from 0% in Oct up to 6% now, FREA more than doubled, and at last the start of some sense on command upgrades, DECs and base transfer policies etc).
None of the above would have happened without formal representation unless you happen to think the half-assed money-grabbing management would have offered it out of the goodness of their own hearts perhaps!!!
What you will never have, even with 100% membership, is any union running the company and simply dictating terms. I cannot think of any airline where this happens - not even the biggest. Maybe it would be a good idea though!!?!
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: peoples republic of EU
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by FlapsOne
Further contribution to pension remains a personal issue which is a great shame but, until a change of culture occurs at the top end of the company, it's difficult to see what can be done other than chipping away at the conscience.
I agree that our improved membership levels are reaping some rewards but given that the circumstances for negotiation are as good as they are going to be for the forseeable future we havn't exactly been presented with a golden egg have we? ''Building a Career Airline'' with a 7 % pension? Hmmm. Perhaps we should change that to ''Building the BA and Virgin Holding pool''
As for FREA, I was under the impression that was more to do with the efforts on one man in the Charter sector. Did he not take this on himself before BALPA Jumped on the wagon?
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flaps, everyone is losing out as far as pensions go. The previous deal had a higher salary therefore more cash went in to your pension. The current deal you can choose to top up your pension, but it will still not = the pension contribution from the last, and part of your 'payrise' disappears.
Yeah, i can understand the whole representation thing, thats why i have been in BALPA since i joined ej. I am disappointed that we couldn't refine the last offer, (i voted no as well) but it is their bat and ball and they chose to change brands. I will vote no for this deal as well because i would be prepared to walk out and bring them back to the table and try and get this sorted. I don't plan on staying but would be prepared to give it a go just because of the crap deal i got when i joined, and if it could be sorted it might be worth staying. Doesn't look like the 80 odd % that voted no for the last deal are prepared to do so, but such is life. Still reckon Comanche was management, they know they are getting off the hook easy with us, maybe the cabin crew will stick it to them a bit.
I can read and can understand what is being offered. I wonder about what the CC do with these offers for the week or so they have them before we see them. They didn't seem to understand the last one and no one bothered to proof read this one as not all the pay scales were correct. Really makes the little people on the non standard (read crap) payscales feel like they are being well looked after when they have to keep reminding people what they are actually (not) getting.
Reading back through this makes me realise how a written format doesn't always convey an accurate message. I am not bitter about the current negotiations nor my deal on joining. I also appreciate the work of the people on the cc as i am not prepared to put my time into it, when they are. My family gets little enough of my time as it is. EJ is what i expected it to be and they have done exactly what they said they would for me. I am grateful to have a reasonably well paid job, with good training, maintenance and equipment and i endeavour to give good service and be a safe operator in return. I think with a little effort from both sides it could actually be the kind of company to work for that we keep getting told it supposedly is. Enough said i am retiring back to the sidelines.
Yeah, i can understand the whole representation thing, thats why i have been in BALPA since i joined ej. I am disappointed that we couldn't refine the last offer, (i voted no as well) but it is their bat and ball and they chose to change brands. I will vote no for this deal as well because i would be prepared to walk out and bring them back to the table and try and get this sorted. I don't plan on staying but would be prepared to give it a go just because of the crap deal i got when i joined, and if it could be sorted it might be worth staying. Doesn't look like the 80 odd % that voted no for the last deal are prepared to do so, but such is life. Still reckon Comanche was management, they know they are getting off the hook easy with us, maybe the cabin crew will stick it to them a bit.
I can read and can understand what is being offered. I wonder about what the CC do with these offers for the week or so they have them before we see them. They didn't seem to understand the last one and no one bothered to proof read this one as not all the pay scales were correct. Really makes the little people on the non standard (read crap) payscales feel like they are being well looked after when they have to keep reminding people what they are actually (not) getting.
Reading back through this makes me realise how a written format doesn't always convey an accurate message. I am not bitter about the current negotiations nor my deal on joining. I also appreciate the work of the people on the cc as i am not prepared to put my time into it, when they are. My family gets little enough of my time as it is. EJ is what i expected it to be and they have done exactly what they said they would for me. I am grateful to have a reasonably well paid job, with good training, maintenance and equipment and i endeavour to give good service and be a safe operator in return. I think with a little effort from both sides it could actually be the kind of company to work for that we keep getting told it supposedly is. Enough said i am retiring back to the sidelines.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Orangetree
No-one is giving up - that would be pointless. Yes, pensions were high on the list of targets for improvement but just because it didn't work this time doesn't mean permanent defeat. There are more battles to fight and mnay more occasions for those battles.
You are quite wrong in your assumption that the FREA improvement was soley down to one man in the charter sector. It was a Balpa (General Secretary in fact) fought and won case, as the individual would indeed tell you.
Bloggs2
I genuinely agree with much of your sentiment but must take issue with one thing. The previous 'offer' proposed what many of the amateur analysts on the Balpa BB calculated as circa 2% increase to pensions contributions based on the increase basic salary. The 'pay rise' in addition was billed as 3.5%.
The current offer suggests 2% extra to pension (although not compulsory) with an extra 4% pay increase.
I know it's small, but it does seem better to me.
Anyway, the votes will soon be counted and the majority wins.
No-one is giving up - that would be pointless. Yes, pensions were high on the list of targets for improvement but just because it didn't work this time doesn't mean permanent defeat. There are more battles to fight and mnay more occasions for those battles.
You are quite wrong in your assumption that the FREA improvement was soley down to one man in the charter sector. It was a Balpa (General Secretary in fact) fought and won case, as the individual would indeed tell you.
Bloggs2
I genuinely agree with much of your sentiment but must take issue with one thing. The previous 'offer' proposed what many of the amateur analysts on the Balpa BB calculated as circa 2% increase to pensions contributions based on the increase basic salary. The 'pay rise' in addition was billed as 3.5%.
The current offer suggests 2% extra to pension (although not compulsory) with an extra 4% pay increase.
I know it's small, but it does seem better to me.
Anyway, the votes will soon be counted and the majority wins.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: 'An Airfield Somewhere in England'
Posts: 1,094
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The result of the ballot is now known - it is a significant 'Yes' vote. The vote was a 76% 'Yes' vote and a 24% 'No'. Interestingly 24% of eligible pilots did not vote. In effect it means that approximately 58% of BALPA members pilots have voted 'Yes' - the rest either voted 'No' or did not vote at all. Depending on your interpretation of the 24% voters who did not participate, you can either say they abstained or were not sufficiently interested to cast their vote. Whatever the reason, the end result is a substantial 'Yes' vote and we can now move onto other issues.
I personally feel this is a victory for common sense and has shown the power of responsible union representation. A 6% pay offer backdated to last October followed by a further 4% this October is the best deal any airline has had this year and will be the benchmark which other airlines will be judged by. I hope we can now move on to addressing the more pressing 'lifestyle' issues that will make the company a 'great place to work'.
I personally feel this is a victory for common sense and has shown the power of responsible union representation. A 6% pay offer backdated to last October followed by a further 4% this October is the best deal any airline has had this year and will be the benchmark which other airlines will be judged by. I hope we can now move on to addressing the more pressing 'lifestyle' issues that will make the company a 'great place to work'.
Last edited by Norman Stanley Fletcher; 18th May 2006 at 00:16.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: peoples republic of EU
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well its a done deal now. Hardly a groundbreaker but they had all better like it because that's as good as it's going to get. As for the large percentage of people who didn't vote...shame on you lot. Whether you like the deal or not, people put a lot of effort into negotiations. It should be common courtesy to post your pre-paid envelope!
Now onto lifestyle issues. I wonder will the company smell any coffee on that one or are we destined to lose 40 pilots per quarter until we run out completely?
Now onto lifestyle issues. I wonder will the company smell any coffee on that one or are we destined to lose 40 pilots per quarter until we run out completely?
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: North of London
Posts: 370
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quite disturbing to think so many couldn't be bothered to tick a box and post it for the sake of a payrise!!!! Takes 5 minutes, yet most of them spend 100 times that each week complaining!!!!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with the above, very sad to see a large number of pilots didn't tick the box. I think it's mainly down to the fact that a lot of people just don’t care any more and are currently looking for new jobs.
The 6% now and 4% in Oct looks good on paper (and in monthly pay packet), but our 7% Pension company contribution remains dismal.
One thing is for a sure, easyJet pilots will retire tired and broke!
BALPA have made a huge effort and thank you guys, without the CC we would have walked away with less than what we now have.
Let's hope rostering is now sorted so summer 2007 can be...eerrr better than what I feel 2006 is going to be!
The 6% now and 4% in Oct looks good on paper (and in monthly pay packet), but our 7% Pension company contribution remains dismal.
One thing is for a sure, easyJet pilots will retire tired and broke!
BALPA have made a huge effort and thank you guys, without the CC we would have walked away with less than what we now have.
Let's hope rostering is now sorted so summer 2007 can be...eerrr better than what I feel 2006 is going to be!
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: North of London
Posts: 370
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
easyprison is right about two things (at least two!!); pilots are looking elsewhere, and anyone staying at easyJet will retire tired and broke.
Sad isn't it, to see many flights being cancelled at present, due lack of crew. Lifestyle and rostering have been significant issues for so long, yet in the midst of all this they decided to reduce crewing ratios even further and guess what, they are undercrewed!!!
Unfortunately, the crewing ratios will deplete even further as more pilots leave, less pilots join and those already stretched beyond a reasonable limit put their hands up and say: "No more!!"
I have been going on about this for 4 years, at least. Since they won't listen to staff who clearly know better (it only takes common sense) then they are slowly driving this airline to extinction.
The only thing worse than an airline with no passengers, is one with no pilots!!!
Sad isn't it, to see many flights being cancelled at present, due lack of crew. Lifestyle and rostering have been significant issues for so long, yet in the midst of all this they decided to reduce crewing ratios even further and guess what, they are undercrewed!!!
Unfortunately, the crewing ratios will deplete even further as more pilots leave, less pilots join and those already stretched beyond a reasonable limit put their hands up and say: "No more!!"
I have been going on about this for 4 years, at least. Since they won't listen to staff who clearly know better (it only takes common sense) then they are slowly driving this airline to extinction.
The only thing worse than an airline with no passengers, is one with no pilots!!!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I left over 3 years ago and nothing significantly has changed. I am surprised that C Klink has not finally voted with his feet. Easyjet could be great but it is not and sadly under current mis-management will never be.
