Who are the lowest paid pilots?
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Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan
Maude Charlie/AFA.
Dash 8 FO basic is about 24k pa, before tax. And they want to reduce that for new joiners. Unless you're getting jet pass over pay, which I suspect you're not as a "new FO". Plus about 3k pa duty pay...before tax! I suspect actual take home is about 1800/1900...unless you're doing more hours than I am...which I doubt!
Dash 8 FO basic is about 24k pa, before tax. And they want to reduce that for new joiners. Unless you're getting jet pass over pay, which I suspect you're not as a "new FO". Plus about 3k pa duty pay...before tax! I suspect actual take home is about 1800/1900...unless you're doing more hours than I am...which I doubt!
All in all, a very pleasant situation. You'll spot me easy enough - I'm the one with the big, satisfied grin on my ugly mug.
I have heard that they are planning to reduce the starting pay for future newbies, and changing the bonding arrangements which I think is all a bit of a pity, but given the massive numbers of applicants it is still a buyers' market at Flybe.
I could make this as a taxidriver, and then i would even be in the same compartment as the pretty girls 
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Low Pay?
Try this Air Asia (Malaysia)
A320 Captain
Total after tax including flying allowances etc etc
US$3950
(Take home pay)
Constantly doing 90+hrs a month
Pilot does Loadsheet
2 - 8 sector days
20 minutes turnaround
A320 Captain
Total after tax including flying allowances etc etc
US$3950
(Take home pay)
Constantly doing 90+hrs a month
Pilot does Loadsheet
2 - 8 sector days
20 minutes turnaround
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Would anyone think i'm mad trying to get a job flying when i'm on £1100/week net as a contract aircraft fitter in toulouse?????,just thought i'd ask as i soooooo want to get my first job.
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lets keep it all in perspective
now, sit down, take a deep breath, and i do honestly mean this with the greatest respect......
aside from the training issues where people have had to self fund their licences(bonds an so on ) - (which i understand is the majority) i have to ask the question.
why do you think that you are entitled to a high wage, and why do you berate all those 'undermining the industry by accepting lower contracts.'
In my humble opinion, I do not think that pilots should be paid the huge sums of money that they historically earned. Even on some of the lower figures quoted, it is still a generous sum of money. I get the impression that some posters on here have hugely inflated ego's and are full of their own self importance.
Market forces should determine salaries, and i personally feel that aviation is an industry where the 'drivers' seem to complain more than most about their terms and conditions. Lets be honest, its not the most unpleasant job in the world is it? Think of the poor soul that has to clean out the night club toilets on sunday morning, or perhaps the chap that sticks labels onto cardboard boxes all day.
I think those complaining should take a look at themselves, and ask the question "What is it about my job that allows me to expect an uber-salary?" Depending on how honest you are with yourselves there may be some surprises.
This post contains my actual thoughts, these are not posted just to spark reaction and subsequent flaming. I'm just fed up with the constant moans about how poor you all are.
regards
TFC (yellow pages firmly inserted down trousers and hard hat fitted.....)
aside from the training issues where people have had to self fund their licences(bonds an so on ) - (which i understand is the majority) i have to ask the question.
why do you think that you are entitled to a high wage, and why do you berate all those 'undermining the industry by accepting lower contracts.'
In my humble opinion, I do not think that pilots should be paid the huge sums of money that they historically earned. Even on some of the lower figures quoted, it is still a generous sum of money. I get the impression that some posters on here have hugely inflated ego's and are full of their own self importance.
Market forces should determine salaries, and i personally feel that aviation is an industry where the 'drivers' seem to complain more than most about their terms and conditions. Lets be honest, its not the most unpleasant job in the world is it? Think of the poor soul that has to clean out the night club toilets on sunday morning, or perhaps the chap that sticks labels onto cardboard boxes all day.
I think those complaining should take a look at themselves, and ask the question "What is it about my job that allows me to expect an uber-salary?" Depending on how honest you are with yourselves there may be some surprises.
This post contains my actual thoughts, these are not posted just to spark reaction and subsequent flaming. I'm just fed up with the constant moans about how poor you all are.
regards
TFC (yellow pages firmly inserted down trousers and hard hat fitted.....)
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the flying cop,
Could it be the fact that you can have 100's of peoples lives in your hands?
Wake up to what you are worth!
OSOP
"What is it about my job that allows me to expect an uber-salary?"
Wake up to what you are worth!
OSOP
Off Track
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OSOP -
The same is true of the Engineers who keep your shiny toys in the air, or also the ATC staff who keep you all from flying into each other.
It's a sad fact that we all think we are worth more !
Just that some don't moan about it so much.
ILS
The same is true of the Engineers who keep your shiny toys in the air, or also the ATC staff who keep you all from flying into each other.
It's a sad fact that we all think we are worth more !
Just that some don't moan about it so much.
ILS
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I would think that the money I get paid for flying is not for the "actual" flying but the knowledge that I carry and that I can use incase something goes wrong or not according to plan... it could be weather related and so on...
It's like the piano tuner story. He charged 50€ to tune a piano in 2 min, the client asked why should I pay you 50€ for 2 min of work? He answered, you pay me not because I tuned some strings, you me because I know which string to tune...
It's like the piano tuner story. He charged 50€ to tune a piano in 2 min, the client asked why should I pay you 50€ for 2 min of work? He answered, you pay me not because I tuned some strings, you me because I know which string to tune...
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Calm down guys and gals .......
eggtimer, that was just ONE example!
ILS repeater, with all due respect, if you think you are worth more. Do something about it! Dont moan that pilots try and do something about it! I have given a reason why pilots should get an "uber slary". Give us a reason why engineers should... IMHO a good engineer stops me from having a bad day (and I have only ever come across a few bad ones), that should be rewarded appropriately however its not in my hands!
There are some really touchy people on here!
Freighter Airliner or Pax Airliner..... Whatever the deal, the people who operate and fix these machines are both highly technically qualified and must also possess skills that you dont just buy off the back of a Weetabix packet.
As such you deserve a wage that matches your qualifications and abilities.
There is that saying that is sometimes mentioned.......
Pilots dont earn their money flying from A - B. They earn their money when the s**t hits the fan. Like it or not, the buck stops with the pilot, not ATC, not the engineer, not management, THE PILOT. They are the ones who might not get to go home at the end of the day! Lets not forget that!!
eggtimer, that was just ONE example!
ILS repeater, with all due respect, if you think you are worth more. Do something about it! Dont moan that pilots try and do something about it! I have given a reason why pilots should get an "uber slary". Give us a reason why engineers should... IMHO a good engineer stops me from having a bad day (and I have only ever come across a few bad ones), that should be rewarded appropriately however its not in my hands!
There are some really touchy people on here!
Freighter Airliner or Pax Airliner..... Whatever the deal, the people who operate and fix these machines are both highly technically qualified and must also possess skills that you dont just buy off the back of a Weetabix packet.
As such you deserve a wage that matches your qualifications and abilities.
There is that saying that is sometimes mentioned.......
Pilots dont earn their money flying from A - B. They earn their money when the s**t hits the fan. Like it or not, the buck stops with the pilot, not ATC, not the engineer, not management, THE PILOT. They are the ones who might not get to go home at the end of the day! Lets not forget that!!
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Whats the matter with some of you..???
Although I may still be on the training ladder and have little experience of the industry I do think theres a few here who dont realise how lucky they are.
Ive had various jobs in the past, ie: parcel delivery driver, labourer, Own retail business, blah blah blah and know how hard it is to take home 2k a month. 16hr days, getting your hands dirty, outdoors all through winter, working for little or no thanks etc etc etc..
When qualified I'll happily work for 25k take home and 40hrs a month so if any of you lot fancy a change you can have my transit van and knock
out 120drops a day 5am-6pm 6 days a week and take home £1600 p/m.
Cheer up chaps, you have a great job that 95% of the population admire and respect!!
DPT
Although I may still be on the training ladder and have little experience of the industry I do think theres a few here who dont realise how lucky they are.
Ive had various jobs in the past, ie: parcel delivery driver, labourer, Own retail business, blah blah blah and know how hard it is to take home 2k a month. 16hr days, getting your hands dirty, outdoors all through winter, working for little or no thanks etc etc etc..
When qualified I'll happily work for 25k take home and 40hrs a month so if any of you lot fancy a change you can have my transit van and knock
out 120drops a day 5am-6pm 6 days a week and take home £1600 p/m.
Cheer up chaps, you have a great job that 95% of the population admire and respect!!
DPT
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Originally Posted by On speed on profile
Calm down guys and gals .......
Pilots dont earn their money flying from A - B. They earn their money when the s**t hits the fan. Like it or not, the buck stops with the pilot, not ATC, not the engineer, not management, THE PILOT. They are the ones who might not get to go home at the end of the day! Lets not forget that!!
Pilots dont earn their money flying from A - B. They earn their money when the s**t hits the fan. Like it or not, the buck stops with the pilot, not ATC, not the engineer, not management, THE PILOT. They are the ones who might not get to go home at the end of the day! Lets not forget that!!
Pilots earn there salary before they leave home for their trip sequence and continue to earn their salary up to the point they go off duty, whether a one day or five day trip away from base. Crewmembers have an unwritten responsibility to themselves as well as their fellow crewmembers as well as their passengers when on a trip.
Not only are pilots aviators, but managers too. Along with the flight attendants pilots are ambassadors of their carriers. We have to be prepared for the unexpected, not just air emergencies, but operational problems that pop up almost on a daily basis regarding ground handling, passenger problems, diversions to name a few.
After you have been employed with a carrier, I want you to tell this forum that you honestly feel you are over paid for the position. Better yet deduct your perceived over pay from your gross paycheck and make a contribution to your favorite charity.
Not being an engineer, or air traffic controller, I'm sure they feel the same about the value of their labors too.
Last edited by captjns; 9th May 2006 at 11:47.
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captjns, mate, you have read waaaaayyyyy too much into my post and from what I can work out (and i struggled a bit, sorry, im just a pilot), you seem to think that my position is pilots get paid too much!!
My original post was in answer to the flying cop's post...
"I think those complaining should take a look at themselves, and ask the question "What is it about my job that allows me to expect an uber-salary?"
We deserve to collect a decent (above average) wage because of everything you state in your 3rd paragraph and the fact that we are doing a SAFETY CRITICAL JOB. When you quoted me, you left out this part.....
As such you deserve a wage that matches your qualifications and abilities. I should have added responsibilities to that as well.
Pilots, who also have to be managers and planners and who do a safety critical job and who normally hold not only theirs but others lives in their own hands on a day to day basis deserve the recognition that this responsibility brings.
How was your point different to mine?
My original post was in answer to the flying cop's post...
"I think those complaining should take a look at themselves, and ask the question "What is it about my job that allows me to expect an uber-salary?"
We deserve to collect a decent (above average) wage because of everything you state in your 3rd paragraph and the fact that we are doing a SAFETY CRITICAL JOB. When you quoted me, you left out this part.....
As such you deserve a wage that matches your qualifications and abilities. I should have added responsibilities to that as well.
Pilots, who also have to be managers and planners and who do a safety critical job and who normally hold not only theirs but others lives in their own hands on a day to day basis deserve the recognition that this responsibility brings.
How was your point different to mine?
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the flying cop, and others of the same opinion;
What do you do? How much are you paid for it? Is it fair? How much do you think you should be paid for it?
How much do you think a pilot should be paid for his job? Scenario: LCC, RHS, 300 hours, LTN,STN or LGW base.
Once you answer me, I'll tell you how much I get paid. And then you can answer my third & fourth question but for me.
Screwballs
What do you do? How much are you paid for it? Is it fair? How much do you think you should be paid for it?
How much do you think a pilot should be paid for his job? Scenario: LCC, RHS, 300 hours, LTN,STN or LGW base.
Once you answer me, I'll tell you how much I get paid. And then you can answer my third & fourth question but for me.
Screwballs
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captjns, no worries.
Too many people here are willing to sell themselves short. Flying a modern airliner or even a light aircraft is a job that has very serious ramifications when done incorrectly. Some of you here need to hold higher opinoins of your self worth!
OSOP
Too many people here are willing to sell themselves short. Flying a modern airliner or even a light aircraft is a job that has very serious ramifications when done incorrectly. Some of you here need to hold higher opinoins of your self worth!
OSOP
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How about this....
...I am a mere PPL holder, but my day job is being a teacher. I've been doing it now for 12 years and am at the top of the salary tree for a classroom based teacher.
Some of you mention that pilots should be paid becasue of the responsibility they have. So let's look at my job.
Obviously, on a day to day business, I'm responsible for 30 kids in my classroom. But being a senior teacher, I'm also responsible for my whole year group. 120 kids. On trips, where I am party leader, in charge of up to 130 people for up to 3 days (on residential courses), I also have a job with real responsibility. You've all read about kids who've been swept away, broken bones etc. If this happens, guess whose neck is on the block?
Some of you mention the hours you work. Let's look at mine.
I get to school 8am, leave 4-5pm. Get home 5.30, mark books, plan leesons till 7, have something to eat, work till 9. That's every week day. I have Saturday off, then work all day Sunday. This works out to be around 70 hours a week. And before you ask, holidays are taken up by training days, report writing, planning for next term etc. It's only in the 6 week summer holidays that I get a real break However, I do concede that I'm at home every night, have a fixed daily setup, and have real job security. This counts for a lot.
And my monthly salary (net) £1760. And unless I want to become a deputy or head, that is the maximum I can achieve.
Except I think it's fine. So when I hear about some of you complaining about earning less than 2 grand, I feel my blood boil. Yes, you deserve a decent salary (whatever that might be?) and I agree, you are responsible for a multi-million pound aircraft, but like someone else has mentioned, you have one of the best jobs in the world. And how many of you - hands on heart - can say you work a 70 hour week? Not many I presume! And remember, most of you will get a hefty salary after a few years of being an airline pilot.
Maybe I'm wrong though...
Regards
Flock1
...I am a mere PPL holder, but my day job is being a teacher. I've been doing it now for 12 years and am at the top of the salary tree for a classroom based teacher.
Some of you mention that pilots should be paid becasue of the responsibility they have. So let's look at my job.
Obviously, on a day to day business, I'm responsible for 30 kids in my classroom. But being a senior teacher, I'm also responsible for my whole year group. 120 kids. On trips, where I am party leader, in charge of up to 130 people for up to 3 days (on residential courses), I also have a job with real responsibility. You've all read about kids who've been swept away, broken bones etc. If this happens, guess whose neck is on the block?
Some of you mention the hours you work. Let's look at mine.
I get to school 8am, leave 4-5pm. Get home 5.30, mark books, plan leesons till 7, have something to eat, work till 9. That's every week day. I have Saturday off, then work all day Sunday. This works out to be around 70 hours a week. And before you ask, holidays are taken up by training days, report writing, planning for next term etc. It's only in the 6 week summer holidays that I get a real break However, I do concede that I'm at home every night, have a fixed daily setup, and have real job security. This counts for a lot.
And my monthly salary (net) £1760. And unless I want to become a deputy or head, that is the maximum I can achieve.
Except I think it's fine. So when I hear about some of you complaining about earning less than 2 grand, I feel my blood boil. Yes, you deserve a decent salary (whatever that might be?) and I agree, you are responsible for a multi-million pound aircraft, but like someone else has mentioned, you have one of the best jobs in the world. And how many of you - hands on heart - can say you work a 70 hour week? Not many I presume! And remember, most of you will get a hefty salary after a few years of being an airline pilot.
Maybe I'm wrong though...
Regards
Flock1