Jet2 Sector Pay?
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I realise not everyone is getting a great deal!(most aren't in fact) And also realise that a lot of staff will be let go and made redundant. Despite all the hard work they have put in over the years! 
(which I'm sorry to hear)
On the other hand, when cabin/flight crew are made to move base what kind of compensation do they receive?
Anyway, sorry to roam off topic.
(which I'm sorry to hear)On the other hand, when cabin/flight crew are made to move base what kind of compensation do they receive?
Anyway, sorry to roam off topic.
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Originally Posted by silverhawk
So ME109 and MANBLK both feel there will be repercusions from above for anyone who voices any disageement with issues that directly affect our personal circumstances.
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Ladies and Gentlemen
I am pleased to hear that optomism is in the air. As I have said earlier, keep your powder dry.
Today's problems will be resolved. Tomorrow's are unseen.
Keep your eye on the ball. Don't expect the same response from BOH/LBA next time unless we are serious.
Guys, you all must realise that the only reason they have listened this time is due to the level of dissatisfaction displayed.
I am pleased to hear that optomism is in the air. As I have said earlier, keep your powder dry.
Today's problems will be resolved. Tomorrow's are unseen.
Keep your eye on the ball. Don't expect the same response from BOH/LBA next time unless we are serious.
Guys, you all must realise that the only reason they have listened this time is due to the level of dissatisfaction displayed.
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The number of experienced staff moving to LBA is going to be very low, if management realised this then maybe they would be more supportive. The "package" is unfortunately not good enough for people and families to relocate (unless you are a manager or a single person looking for a rabbit hutch to live in a dodgy area!)
I personally pity the crew who will be left with very inexperienced staff trying to run the airline or staff who they have had to employ from the ticket desk or even cabin crew. This together with the crews new sector pay there will be a lot of frustrated people.
I personally pity the crew who will be left with very inexperienced staff trying to run the airline or staff who they have had to employ from the ticket desk or even cabin crew. This together with the crews new sector pay there will be a lot of frustrated people.
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Before the sector pay letter came out, I hoped that the management would have forseen the disruption that moving BOH to LBA will cause, the grieve that we are all expecting as the expierence of opp's and crewing goes; and the probable increase in work with new routes and more four sector days for the year. The rough times ahead could have been smoothed with a respectable offer.
I'm already in Balpa but hear too many comments of its ineffectiveness and wonder if its worth the money, certainly will be if the majority join.
Sounds like we need silverhawk as the union rep... But how many of us are already in one? And I'm sure they would greet us all with open arms until they had our subscription, then show if their worth it or not...
I'm already in Balpa but hear too many comments of its ineffectiveness and wonder if its worth the money, certainly will be if the majority join.
Sounds like we need silverhawk as the union rep... But how many of us are already in one? And I'm sure they would greet us all with open arms until they had our subscription, then show if their worth it or not...
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This thread is an eye opener of the naivety that appears to prevail in Jet2... Sorry to say but you lot are about to be done over by your boss who is oh so way ahead of any of you....
A mate of mine told me the experience level in Jet2 was fairly low, now I can see it, have any of you got any previous experience of the kind of skulldugery airline managements excel in...??? Doubt it.
Now, where to begin...
Dewpoint:
'Ease the pain', are you going to pay the F/O's who are being royaly done over?? No, didn't think so...
clearfortheoption
Are you and Dewpoint joined at the hip? How can F/O's straight from Flight School have 'bad experiences'..?
Pilothouse
...then witters on about rosters and lifestyle make up for it all.... they are not mutually exclusive you know! (Management stooge alert here...
)
Silverhawk
Silverhawk, mate, I like the cut of your jib... but please... get a grip!
Management ARE the enemy, you better wise up quick matey... Coz sure as sh!t they view you lot as public enemy number 1... And they are not about to get all touchy feely with you either...
All one way though...
Choose ANY union OTHER than Balpa and you are wasting your time, trust me... 
MANBLK
They will be giving him a big pat on the back more like...
When will you get it through your little heads that Balpa are but a tool at your disposal, and damn good tool, but a tool none the less, they do what you ask them to do, and Balpa is you, through a Company Council.
Completely irrelevant to whats being discussed here.
Dry behind your ears son...
Having said all that (phew), there does seem to be some cohesion amongst many Jet2 crew, but for your own well being and longevity, please wisen up guys. Management are the enemy, pure and simple, to think anything else is suicide. Sure, be nice, be polite, but in the dark smoke filled rooms, be militiant. Be very very careful of quasi management types 'being on your side'... Types who spout that type of drivel usually cannot lie straight in bed...
Someone mentioned that your boss will never recognise a union, well he has no choice in the matter, he seems to model himself on MOL, so maybe he needs some of what MOL's about to get...
I have to say that many posters to this thread seem to have a 'rose tinted spectacles' view of modern airline management, probably because as I said
earlier your company is full of low houred people (& ex mil yes men), but no one else is going to protect your T&C's!
To sum up, get organised, get Balpa involved, and get respect.
A mate of mine told me the experience level in Jet2 was fairly low, now I can see it, have any of you got any previous experience of the kind of skulldugery airline managements excel in...??? Doubt it.Now, where to begin...
Dewpoint:
will join anything but balpa, an absolute waste of money. just remember tho' chaps, at times like this, as skippers, we are in a perfect position to "ease the pain" a little.
clearfortheoption
Hi guys and girls,I have spoken to some FOs who are willing to join a union,however many wouldn't touch Balpa due to bad experiences in the past
Pilothouse
Yes, our T's and C's are, on paper, worse than dreadful. BUT:
)Silverhawk
The management are not the enemy. They are not stupid.It is in their interests for the staff to be retained, however one of their goals is to retain the staff as cheaply as possible.
Management ARE the enemy, you better wise up quick matey... Coz sure as sh!t they view you lot as public enemy number 1... And they are not about to get all touchy feely with you either...
There is always a place for common sense and the voice of reason.
Choose the right tool for the job. In our case, being a fairly small outfit, the correct tool in my opinion, is the T&G.
MANBLK
The meeting seems to have come about through the sheer volume of complaint that has reached Bournemouth. In fact, I suspect that a group of pilot managers have got together and told the originator of the letters to sort out the mess that he has created.
I've nothing against a union, but this is a far better response than you would ever get if a union were involved. In my experience, BALPA would have (eventually) met with management behind closed doors and some sort of deal would have been struck which would have completely shafted some minority of the workforce in favour of another minority.
I'm on for the T&G, particularly as they can represent cabin crew too.
I've had a chat with a member of pilot management about pay and dual basing and received a warm response, and I'm sure there will be no repercussions in this case.
Having said all that (phew), there does seem to be some cohesion amongst many Jet2 crew, but for your own well being and longevity, please wisen up guys. Management are the enemy, pure and simple, to think anything else is suicide. Sure, be nice, be polite, but in the dark smoke filled rooms, be militiant. Be very very careful of quasi management types 'being on your side'... Types who spout that type of drivel usually cannot lie straight in bed...
Someone mentioned that your boss will never recognise a union, well he has no choice in the matter, he seems to model himself on MOL, so maybe he needs some of what MOL's about to get...
I have to say that many posters to this thread seem to have a 'rose tinted spectacles' view of modern airline management, probably because as I said
earlier your company is full of low houred people (& ex mil yes men), but no one else is going to protect your T&C's!
To sum up, get organised, get Balpa involved, and get respect.
Last edited by Seer; 4th Apr 2006 at 22:16.
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Come and work for us and spread the gospel, seer.
We have seen:
F27 pilots sold down the river after months of assurances.
Airbus pilots about to be made redundant whilst the company recruits 757 pilots. The BALPA Head of Legal Service BALPA intervened; Airbus pilots were then retrained on the Airbus
Manchester pilots informed by letter they are about to be dual based Manchester/Blackpool. All a ‘mistake’ we are told, after much protest.
But still no one gets it. Most here are on the first job, or first job in Civilian Street as you have noted. They’re just naïve.
The ‘pay rise’ every one is carping on about is disappointing for some, we had been told for some time we would receive sector pay, I think people were expecting Easy/Ryan/BMI Baby type levels of sector pay. But we don’t work anything like as hard as those companies, though I recognise some bases and pilots work harder than others, particularly trainers. My view is we’re not badly paid for what we do, though that may change as the company grows. It is hard on the FO’s though; most are broke after paying for their own type rating.
But all this when the industry is suffering from a shortage of experienced, type rated pilots. What’s it going to be like when & if the industry experiences a downturn?
We have seen:
F27 pilots sold down the river after months of assurances.
Airbus pilots about to be made redundant whilst the company recruits 757 pilots. The BALPA Head of Legal Service BALPA intervened; Airbus pilots were then retrained on the Airbus
Manchester pilots informed by letter they are about to be dual based Manchester/Blackpool. All a ‘mistake’ we are told, after much protest.
But still no one gets it. Most here are on the first job, or first job in Civilian Street as you have noted. They’re just naïve.
The ‘pay rise’ every one is carping on about is disappointing for some, we had been told for some time we would receive sector pay, I think people were expecting Easy/Ryan/BMI Baby type levels of sector pay. But we don’t work anything like as hard as those companies, though I recognise some bases and pilots work harder than others, particularly trainers. My view is we’re not badly paid for what we do, though that may change as the company grows. It is hard on the FO’s though; most are broke after paying for their own type rating.
But all this when the industry is suffering from a shortage of experienced, type rated pilots. What’s it going to be like when & if the industry experiences a downturn?
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SEER,
If you do indeed work for Jet2, then I suggest that you are in the wrong place. With attitudes like yours, a favourable relationship between management and crew will NEVER HAPPEN. Please don't wreck it for the rest of us before we've heard what Friday brings.
BALPA? I've been totally shafted by them. They have their good points but never again.
If you do indeed work for Jet2, then I suggest that you are in the wrong place. With attitudes like yours, a favourable relationship between management and crew will NEVER HAPPEN. Please don't wreck it for the rest of us before we've heard what Friday brings.
BALPA? I've been totally shafted by them. They have their good points but never again.
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Sorry to hear that your 'enlightened' management is still treating you all like yesterday's garbage. Your work situation seems to have deteriorated quite significantly since we were all arguing on the 'Jet2 757 Fleet' thread about the pros & cons of life with Jet2, & I got well & truly castigated for saying what I thought: Jet2 management are total tripe. 
Some people are missing from this current thread though. I notice that the following, who were overly excited in their support of appalling management, are conspicuous by their abscence. Where are Trip Switch, Jet2, Pilothouse (I know, he's still living in a Jet2 wonderland as Seer has pointed out), Pol1wx, Nearly Man, Haughtney1 (why, when you work at Monarch, did you get so uptight about Jet2?), & Bam Thwok (I see that I'm now Aileron am I, Get a grip). The one I really feel for is Shuperstar Loadie. I think that you are a very loyal guy (totally misplaced) who now, possibly, has to search for digs in Leeds. We're poles apart, SL, but I hope that your loyalty will be rewarded.
PM & ID prey on you for the following reasons. 1) They are bullies & it's in them: it's their style. 2) You have far too many new FOs who are just grateful of a job & will put up with more than most until they have the hours to leave and/or have paid off their debt. 3) Too many Captains are crap & because deep down they know this they are under confident of passing a conversion course with another carrier therefore they remain seated with Jet2. 4) Your management pilots are, again, weak: they will not stand up to PM for fear of losing something. 5) FOs are not regarded with the respect that they deserve for being qualified & type rated airline pilots (see above for the manager Vs supervisor role that prevails in Jet2). It helps to divide & conquer a workforce.
If you have reasons, other than the above, for wanting to stay with the nastiest airline in Europe then captains support FOs, FOs support captains, all support the cabin crew & you'll have a cohesive unit that may be able to force PM to give you at least half of what every other airline pilot in the UK can expect. For those of you with talent, & there are some, especially FOs, my advice remains the same: leave.
My beef was always with the dictatorial management at Channex, never most of the workforce. I genuinely wish you the best of luck, especialy the BOH staff who are being totally shafted. As for the flying staff, well look on the bright side, at least the paltry offer of secor pay will be supplemented by the increase in duty pay that you're all now going to receive with the eusuing delays in France!
Some people are missing from this current thread though. I notice that the following, who were overly excited in their support of appalling management, are conspicuous by their abscence. Where are Trip Switch, Jet2, Pilothouse (I know, he's still living in a Jet2 wonderland as Seer has pointed out), Pol1wx, Nearly Man, Haughtney1 (why, when you work at Monarch, did you get so uptight about Jet2?), & Bam Thwok (I see that I'm now Aileron am I, Get a grip). The one I really feel for is Shuperstar Loadie. I think that you are a very loyal guy (totally misplaced) who now, possibly, has to search for digs in Leeds. We're poles apart, SL, but I hope that your loyalty will be rewarded.
PM & ID prey on you for the following reasons. 1) They are bullies & it's in them: it's their style. 2) You have far too many new FOs who are just grateful of a job & will put up with more than most until they have the hours to leave and/or have paid off their debt. 3) Too many Captains are crap & because deep down they know this they are under confident of passing a conversion course with another carrier therefore they remain seated with Jet2. 4) Your management pilots are, again, weak: they will not stand up to PM for fear of losing something. 5) FOs are not regarded with the respect that they deserve for being qualified & type rated airline pilots (see above for the manager Vs supervisor role that prevails in Jet2). It helps to divide & conquer a workforce.
If you have reasons, other than the above, for wanting to stay with the nastiest airline in Europe then captains support FOs, FOs support captains, all support the cabin crew & you'll have a cohesive unit that may be able to force PM to give you at least half of what every other airline pilot in the UK can expect. For those of you with talent, & there are some, especially FOs, my advice remains the same: leave.
My beef was always with the dictatorial management at Channex, never most of the workforce. I genuinely wish you the best of luck, especialy the BOH staff who are being totally shafted. As for the flying staff, well look on the bright side, at least the paltry offer of secor pay will be supplemented by the increase in duty pay that you're all now going to receive with the eusuing delays in France!
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Originally Posted by Pulp Fiction
Some people are missing from this current thread though. Where are Trip Switch, Jet2, Pilothouse, Pol1wx, Nearly Man, Haughtney1, & Bam Thwok.
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The naivet being shown on this thread is astonishing. For whatever reason, inexperience or stupidity, the suggestions being expressed here about getting recognition by the TGWU or being represented jointly with cabin crew are a sure sign that you are all going to be shafted for a long time to come and deservedly so with these attitudes.
Show me one single UK airline where anyone other than BALPA have managed to get decent representation. Also, show me any single UK airline where pilots AND cabin crew are represented jointly and everyone is happy. I'm sure that you'll come up with a veritable list of success stories... NOT!
The only way you pilots are going to get any leverage over your pay and conditions is if you have a substantial majority of members in the only union that has successfully represented pilots and that's BALPA. Only the companies that have a high BALPA membership, over 70%, have any clout in their negotiations. The misguided innocence of some on here who fail to realise, as has been mentioned, that BALPA are just a tool and it is how you use that tool through your elected Company Council that will determine how well you get on with your negotiations.
Also, to offer the management some sort of representative employee council made up of both pilots and cabin crew is a non starter. How on earth you can get any leverage when the majority of your members will have nowhere near the skills, responsibilities or salary levels that you have or aspire to. Management at Jet2 must be in agony over the pain in their sides from laughing so much.
Talk about prime candidates for divide and conquer. No serious airline experienced union, if any. Suggestions that you be jointly represented with cabin crew who have nowhere near the same responsibilities, levels of training or salary requirements. You are separate in terms of status in the company, although they'd just love you to fall into the trap of associating yourselves as easily trained cabin crew instead of middle management level professionals.
Watch this space as Jet2 pilots dig themselves into a hole through inexperience and naivety. Revisit this thread in a year or so and see exactly the same problems they are having now repeat themselves. Anyone remember a few years ago when there were moves amongst the Ryanair pilots to unionise? They failed to sort themselves out because of exactly the same reasons being bandied about in this thread and look where they are today. Shafted and trying desperately to extricate themselves from the mess they're in with their own terms and conditions.
If you want to give yourselves any chance of proper representation then it has to be a solid backing for BALPA and don't fall into the trap of being jointly represented with the cabin crew or any other workers. No disrespect to them but they have their own unions with the necessary skills to back them up if they manage to organise themselves. Anything else is a wasted effort.
Show me one single UK airline where anyone other than BALPA have managed to get decent representation. Also, show me any single UK airline where pilots AND cabin crew are represented jointly and everyone is happy. I'm sure that you'll come up with a veritable list of success stories... NOT!
The only way you pilots are going to get any leverage over your pay and conditions is if you have a substantial majority of members in the only union that has successfully represented pilots and that's BALPA. Only the companies that have a high BALPA membership, over 70%, have any clout in their negotiations. The misguided innocence of some on here who fail to realise, as has been mentioned, that BALPA are just a tool and it is how you use that tool through your elected Company Council that will determine how well you get on with your negotiations.
Also, to offer the management some sort of representative employee council made up of both pilots and cabin crew is a non starter. How on earth you can get any leverage when the majority of your members will have nowhere near the skills, responsibilities or salary levels that you have or aspire to. Management at Jet2 must be in agony over the pain in their sides from laughing so much.
Talk about prime candidates for divide and conquer. No serious airline experienced union, if any. Suggestions that you be jointly represented with cabin crew who have nowhere near the same responsibilities, levels of training or salary requirements. You are separate in terms of status in the company, although they'd just love you to fall into the trap of associating yourselves as easily trained cabin crew instead of middle management level professionals.
Watch this space as Jet2 pilots dig themselves into a hole through inexperience and naivety. Revisit this thread in a year or so and see exactly the same problems they are having now repeat themselves. Anyone remember a few years ago when there were moves amongst the Ryanair pilots to unionise? They failed to sort themselves out because of exactly the same reasons being bandied about in this thread and look where they are today. Shafted and trying desperately to extricate themselves from the mess they're in with their own terms and conditions.
If you want to give yourselves any chance of proper representation then it has to be a solid backing for BALPA and don't fall into the trap of being jointly represented with the cabin crew or any other workers. No disrespect to them but they have their own unions with the necessary skills to back them up if they manage to organise themselves. Anything else is a wasted effort.
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Hmm, I wonder where X-Centric is too
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Balpa is in-effective and expensive. Give yourselves a 1% pay cut to join. Teaming up with cabin crew in the same union can only strengthen our position as a united workforce. Every tried operating a passenger service without cabin crew?
I have been a member of Balpa. They are weak and not interested in a fight with management. I will join another union but never Balpa.
We need to have something in place so we don't get shafted again next year.
I have been a member of Balpa. They are weak and not interested in a fight with management. I will join another union but never Balpa.
We need to have something in place so we don't get shafted again next year.
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Pulp
Glad to hear from you. I agree with much of what you say about the management. Many of us are still here because we have our own good reasons for doing so. That is why I'm still here, not because I can't get a better paid job elsewhere.
I sure hope we are revisiting this thread in a year's time. Hopefully by then all sides will have learnt some valuable lessons because every day's a day at school.
I sure hope we are revisiting this thread in a year's time. Hopefully by then all sides will have learnt some valuable lessons because every day's a day at school.
Off Track
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OK so management are evil... they shaft the ground staff..... and then they shaft the flight crews..... but why make 'no job' a director !!!???? Whats goin on here ?
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I guess flight and cabin crew need some 'directing' on how to wear their high vis jackets, while the ground staff...... well, who knows! As long as everyone is SAFE.
Thought they were trying to cut down on the number of chiefs????
Safe flying everyone
Thought they were trying to cut down on the number of chiefs????
Safe flying everyone
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Oh Dear Pulp Fiction / X-Centric. Here we go again.
As always, you've got some cheek......
Thankfully for us you now work for Ryanair (and deserve each other) so what's this thread got to do with you ?
On a previous thread, you called all your ex colleagues "scum", amoebas", and "crap" to quote just a few of your childish, chip on the shoulder remarks.
Grow up.
P.S. Say hello to your buddies at NASA. We all had a good laugh at that.
As always, you've got some cheek......
Haughtney1 (why, when you work at Monarch, did you get so uptight about Jet2?),
For those of you with talent, & there are some
Grow up.
P.S. Say hello to your buddies at NASA. We all had a good laugh at that.
Last edited by Homer Simpson; 5th Apr 2006 at 15:28.
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Originally Posted by Seer
Pilothouse
...then witters on about rosters and lifestyle make up for it all.... they are not mutually exclusive you know!
...then witters on about rosters and lifestyle make up for it all.... they are not mutually exclusive you know!
The question was, why would anyone want to work for Jet2? I answered it the way I see it and it's my choice that I'm here.
Yes, we could indeed have all the good things AND good pay, excellent t's and c's and brilliant management. As you say, they are not mutually exclusive - but we would be virtually the first airline to achieve it.
One thing I like at Jet2 is that there is far less whingeing on the shopfloor than at anywhere else I've worked. Obviously I haven't come across you yet. Your whole life seems like one big battlefield.