TIME TO STOP PAYING
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Copy of my post about SSTR's which is relevant to this discussion.
I thought I would post my experiences of SSTR's. I appreciate that I made a silly move - please appreciate that I am posting this to give a first hand account of the potential problems. It is embarrassing to admit to be so foolish, but in doing so hopefully I can prevent others making the same mistake.
Having considered a SSTR I decided I would not proceed unless some work was attached to it. I understand the arguements of queue jumping and buying a job - but from my own earned income I had the choice to pay for a rating. No rich parents, just my own sweat and effort.
I was assessed for a position with an expanding low fares airline and offered a job flying a nice shiny jet, subject to funding and passing my self funded type rating. To rub salt in the wound they then also bond you for two years on a non-decreasing basis to cover your additional 'training costs'.
I had some reservations about the lack of paperwork, but was told by the course provider that this was normal for this airline, but they had always delivered and to trust them. The provider was not linked to the airline.
I parted with my money and joined the course, only to be told on joining that the start date had been slightly delayed. During the course no further paperwork was provided -except an email confirming we would be offered jobs upon completion of the course.
After passing the LST we notified the employer and rolled straight into the base training. License issue was done immediately.
Then silience from the employer. The key guy was not available, no comments or commitments could be made.
To cut a long story short after chasing we received an offer two whole months after completing the course, and the start date was set for a month after that. To top it all off, for the 'further training' such as wet drills CRM etc we have to pay our own transport and hotel. The terms of the initial offer were also slightly amended.
Some may say that as we elected to 'prostitute' ourselves by spending the money, we got what we deserved. However I feel that this is slowly the direction that SSTR's are going to go. The job market for pilots is picking up, and it makes good commercial sense for airlines to not pay for training. With people thinking they will wait to see if they can get a 'proper' job the training providers/airlines have to be slightly more creative in how they pull the punters in. Offering a job and using that to get people committed is one approach they can use.
The same airline a couple of weeks ago got a friend in for interview. The Head Office was some distance away and he required travel, hotel etc for the interview. He passed the interview and was told they wereinterested in him, but not til next year as they were fully crewed. The question is why waste people time and money? My experience of them is that they hold no value for their employers, and the respect and feeling of belonging that should go with the job is lost - this devalues the opportunity to the point where I wish I had not bothered, and do not want anything to do with them as an employee.
I think the moral is buyer beware, and that any company asking you to part with money to join them is going to treat you badly. By offering and actually paying you devalue yourself in their eyes, and give them the opportunity to hold you to ransom, mess you around and give you no respect.
The market is changing, and other opportunities came my way through the period of training and afterwards. From speaking to friends who have gone along the normal route (airline paid for rating with bond), their experience has been much better. They feel more involved in the company, more in the structure and better cared for. After spending so much training, it is a shame to go to your first job resenting your employer, it taks the edge and excitement of what should be such a fine point in yor career.
Any ramble over!
Toadie
I thought I would post my experiences of SSTR's. I appreciate that I made a silly move - please appreciate that I am posting this to give a first hand account of the potential problems. It is embarrassing to admit to be so foolish, but in doing so hopefully I can prevent others making the same mistake.
Having considered a SSTR I decided I would not proceed unless some work was attached to it. I understand the arguements of queue jumping and buying a job - but from my own earned income I had the choice to pay for a rating. No rich parents, just my own sweat and effort.
I was assessed for a position with an expanding low fares airline and offered a job flying a nice shiny jet, subject to funding and passing my self funded type rating. To rub salt in the wound they then also bond you for two years on a non-decreasing basis to cover your additional 'training costs'.
I had some reservations about the lack of paperwork, but was told by the course provider that this was normal for this airline, but they had always delivered and to trust them. The provider was not linked to the airline.
I parted with my money and joined the course, only to be told on joining that the start date had been slightly delayed. During the course no further paperwork was provided -except an email confirming we would be offered jobs upon completion of the course.
After passing the LST we notified the employer and rolled straight into the base training. License issue was done immediately.
Then silience from the employer. The key guy was not available, no comments or commitments could be made.
To cut a long story short after chasing we received an offer two whole months after completing the course, and the start date was set for a month after that. To top it all off, for the 'further training' such as wet drills CRM etc we have to pay our own transport and hotel. The terms of the initial offer were also slightly amended.
Some may say that as we elected to 'prostitute' ourselves by spending the money, we got what we deserved. However I feel that this is slowly the direction that SSTR's are going to go. The job market for pilots is picking up, and it makes good commercial sense for airlines to not pay for training. With people thinking they will wait to see if they can get a 'proper' job the training providers/airlines have to be slightly more creative in how they pull the punters in. Offering a job and using that to get people committed is one approach they can use.
The same airline a couple of weeks ago got a friend in for interview. The Head Office was some distance away and he required travel, hotel etc for the interview. He passed the interview and was told they wereinterested in him, but not til next year as they were fully crewed. The question is why waste people time and money? My experience of them is that they hold no value for their employers, and the respect and feeling of belonging that should go with the job is lost - this devalues the opportunity to the point where I wish I had not bothered, and do not want anything to do with them as an employee.
I think the moral is buyer beware, and that any company asking you to part with money to join them is going to treat you badly. By offering and actually paying you devalue yourself in their eyes, and give them the opportunity to hold you to ransom, mess you around and give you no respect.
The market is changing, and other opportunities came my way through the period of training and afterwards. From speaking to friends who have gone along the normal route (airline paid for rating with bond), their experience has been much better. They feel more involved in the company, more in the structure and better cared for. After spending so much training, it is a shame to go to your first job resenting your employer, it taks the edge and excitement of what should be such a fine point in yor career.
Any ramble over!
Toadie
Join Date: May 2004
Location: north
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Originally Posted by Founder
I dont know about other countries but in Sweden if you do training or attend education in order to get a job or keep a job you can specify the sum of costs on your tax bill and a big percentage of that sum will be withdrawn from your tax the following year. You can also devide that sum during several years to get a lower tax.
By buying a type-rating you'll actullay get a lower tax than you would otherwise...
By buying a type-rating you'll actullay get a lower tax than you would otherwise...
Regards,
Ingo1
Join Date: May 2004
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Originally Posted by Founder
No, you just have to have assurance of employment...
What kind of assurance would you need?
If you take a typerating without an assurance and you get a job after, let's say 10 months, would it still be ok to get the tax reduction???
Are we talking typeratings only or a full CPL education?
Regards,
Ingo1
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: EU
Age: 43
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Originally Posted by Ingo1
Ok, that is not the answer I got when I called the tax authorities up a couple of years ago. But that is good news If you are right
What kind of assurance would you need?
If you take a typerating without an assurance and you get a job after, let's say 10 months, would it still be ok to get the tax reduction???
Are we talking typeratings only or a full CPL education?
Regards,
Ingo1
What kind of assurance would you need?
If you take a typerating without an assurance and you get a job after, let's say 10 months, would it still be ok to get the tax reduction???
Are we talking typeratings only or a full CPL education?
Regards,
Ingo1
Kind Regards
Tim
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: EU
Age: 43
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Originally Posted by Ingo1
Thank for straightening things out for me. It can be useful in the future.
It is not easy to get such a promise in writing though...
Regards,
Ingo1
It is not easy to get such a promise in writing though...
Regards,
Ingo1
Good luck in the future
Kind Regards
Tim
