TIME TO STOP PAYING
 

The predicted pilot shortage now seems to be nearer reality than at any time for a good few years.Do we think that as a profession we should refuse to apply to join airlines who insist on training costs being paid by the new recruits up front.Is it time to accept bonding as the only acceptable contribution of candidate towards type rating or training.Surely acting together at a time of demand rather than surplus would address this unacceptable situation which has continued far too long.

bermuda,

A nice thought but with one serious flaw. There is no "we". Pilots are not some happy band of brothers, not all members of some secretive sect, not members of one single association. We are individuals who make individual choices based on our own positions and circumstances.

The problem with anyone turning down a job they would otherwise take is that they know it is not "we" turning it down, it is just "me", and there is someone else in line who will probably grab it with open arms.

Collective barganing only works when you have a collective.

Thats true,but trying to achieve a concensus can't be a bad idea.

If there is a pilot shortage and you are seeking work, chances are you'll find more than one offer. Take the one where you don't have to pay for your type rating - and tell the others why you turned them down.
The message will eventually get though.

If you only have one job offer, you're new, or desperate - take it and pay up.
Thats how the world works.

You'll Never beat the Rich Kids.:}

"Is it time to accept bonding as the only acceptable contribution of candidate towards type rating or training.":{

Funny thing that statement. Not to many years ago I remember us b1tching about training bonds on PPRUNE when they where the norm and we all felt that surely if the company needs you, it must have training built into it's cost base and the way to stop someone else poaching your recently trained pilots was to have great T&C's and trust me it is not all about money.

Don't get me wrong ,bonding is better than paying but still not correct
If that is the way our collective viewpoint has been changed then the beancounters are slowly winning and our profession is doomed.

Do these self same beancounters have to pay or sign a bond to complete there articles to become a CA, I think not. They may work on reduced wages until fully qulified but they don't pay or sign a bond that needs repaying (another way of paying for your rating) if they leave before a certain time.:bored:

Pilot shortage
 

Ther is no pilots shortage yet because the salary and working conditions did not improve YET
SIA, Emirates,Vietnam Airlines, as well as many other Airlines are not offering a better package even if thry are looking for pilots

I would aslo have to ask, is there a pilot shortage? I don't see the requirements dropping much in the past year. Still the minimum is 500 hrs ore more on the type. So the only way to get is to spend 25000 euro for a type-rating and the another 25000 to by the flight time somewhere... =(

The shortage refers to experienced and type-rated pilots.

Ask Ryanair. They are now trawling back through applicants who turned them down or were turned down six months ago. Similar applies to BA etc.

Make sure you're sitting where you want to be when the music stops.

Well said silverhawk,

Indeed I only see a shortage of Captains, or TYPE rated pilots and hours on type. There are plenty of pilots in the market place, but they lack the rating and hours on type.

As mentioned earlier, you cant beat the rich kids, but there are companies out there willing to bond you. BA Connect and Flybe etc.

Chin up and keep going

Mr W

So if a pilot comes with lets say an A320 rating but without hours is he/she more attractive than one without?

Founder, to answer your question: The type rating is useless without hours on type.
I have self funded my A320 rating and I have been seeking, sending my CV, calling Chief pilots all around the world for over a year. Their first question was: ''Are you type rated, then how many hours on type do you have?'' I said I have no hours on type but I am willing to work for free until I reach 500 hours, they replied: ''Please send us your application stating that you are willing to work for free''.
I have never been called for an interview, I suppose that the problem was not about the personality but only because they want experience on type. (Even if I also have experience as Flight dispatcher and Flight Attendant).
Finally I decided to pay my 500 hours on type, I have been waiting for few months before joining a line training. Then I have been employed by the airline. My partner during the rating has 4000 hrs TT with 1000 on turbine and his still looking for. He has the same problem: type rated and lots of hours but no experience on type, desparate, willing to pay another 30000$ to get those hours

:yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

And long may you remain unemployed my son!

Working for free!:( What has this world come to?:{

Thanx for the info, even if it's not the type I wanted to hear =) So how do you proceed with paying for line training? Do I just have to make a call to an airline and ask them if they'll train me for a amount of money or what?

I have been offered a full time position by the airline on the A320/321 before reaching 300 hours on type. I do not regret because the pay is great and I now have the job I wanted. Most of my friends are still instructors with 4 times my flight experience on a PA28 and their pay is 4 times less than mine.
I was not pleased to pay my line training, I had no choice. Once you start something and know your goal, you have to go to the end otherwise it's a waist of time, and time is money.
Yes working for free in order to get the experience is bad, but this is the situation nowdays, if you don't like it you're free to stay out of the game. I am just here to share my experience, it doesn't matter to me if you agree or not my decisions...

I value the information you share highly. I've talked to other pilots who are in the same situation. One guy I know got a job at RyanAir in the UK. He took a type-rating at sterling, bought 100 hours and got the job. And just like in your case, his friends are still instructors flying small planes...

Sarcasm?

wow, this thread amazes me! I knew people were desperate/crazy but this is just amazing. One thing all the people who pay for TR's must think about is the people on the bottome of the ladder flying TPs.

I fly a TP and have never paid for a TR. I got my first job with 235hrs and alot of persistence in a ground based job. I chose to start at the bottom and work my way up but what i didnt realise is how much of an affect a 250hr newbie is having when they pay for their own TR.

Look at it this way, I have 1000hr multi crew and now want to move onto a jet but I am one of those people who refuse to pay for a TR but all the people who are paying for TR's and working for free are killing it for the rest of us!Therefore i am now struggling to find a new step on the ladder.

Personally i'd be too ashamed to admit to paying for my TR!

Well I'm not. I need a job to be able to pay off all my loans I've taken to be able to work with the thing I love most. I need a job to survive and I'm not about to work for 5-10 years earning small amounts of money when I can pay for a type-rating and then get 3-4 times the amout of money.

I'm not about to take pitty on or suffer economically becuase of someone else who just for the cause refuses to pay for his/her TR.

Either you get a job and start flying while earning lots of money or you're stuck with loans you'll never be able to repay with a "normal" job.

I'm not ashamed!

Paid for type rating, had job second week of course,through hard work and networking.

Fly the 737 3/5 enjoying it so much and glad I did it. Well aware of risk involved, not a rich kid, I flew sep for two years saved every penny I earned.

I'll be reading these threads in two years time, probably word for word.

There are plenty of TP operators out there willing to give a new guy a chance so its not as if we are depriving you of any job.

Incidently my outfit Charge for the type rating regardless of experience if not type rated, majority of guys who paid before me direct to company( I self typed) were from other companies.

Happy with my choice and wish some of you would stop bitching about those of us who get what we want:(

SJM glad all worked out for you.....just bear in mind many of your fellow pilots ,who are already upto £70,000 out of pocket,might just not be able to afford the cost of a type rating.Nice if you can afford to keep shelling out,but is it really ethical for employers to expect pilots to fund all their flight training ?