GB Pay Negotiations
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GB Pay Negotiations
Greetings campers,
Heard 3rd hand (so dont shoot me down in flames), that the GB balpa reps walked out of this years pay discussions. I heard the company not gonna pay the tracker agreement!!
Is a strike imminent?!?
Anybody heard anythink?!?
Heard 3rd hand (so dont shoot me down in flames), that the GB balpa reps walked out of this years pay discussions. I heard the company not gonna pay the tracker agreement!!
Is a strike imminent?!?
Anybody heard anythink?!?
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I don't know about a walk out, but most pilots are talking about an offer from the company where tracker will be paid in exchange for 900 hours......very subtle.
GB Airways have been able to attract and most importantly retain pilots because of lifestyle. Over the last few years many of these lifestyle issues have been eroded or withdrawn. We have a new management team, with it a new culture and no doubt they see this as their moment to shine. I am sure the board of directors have been briefed to the possible problems and have a contingency plan for the summer.
LAST ONE OUT TURN OFF THE LIGHTS.........
GB Airways have been able to attract and most importantly retain pilots because of lifestyle. Over the last few years many of these lifestyle issues have been eroded or withdrawn. We have a new management team, with it a new culture and no doubt they see this as their moment to shine. I am sure the board of directors have been briefed to the possible problems and have a contingency plan for the summer.
LAST ONE OUT TURN OFF THE LIGHTS.........
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The usual shortsighted airline management...
They obviously haven't woken up to the fact that there is a pilot shortage looming. Now is the time to be offering a package that will retain pilots, not force them to look carefully at the Emirates advert in Flight for B777 DECs requiring only Boeing EFIS command experience.
When the shortage bites, it will go manic very quickly. I can't wait!
When the shortage bites, it will go manic very quickly. I can't wait!
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Not just Emirates: also check out Etihad in the Middle East, India & China in general, as well as the general expansion in the UK.
Jobs for the new guys, opportunities for FOs to fast track & DECs for suitable FOs & captains, not to mention the training opportunities!
However, GBs management have never been the type to pre-empt a situation, preferring to wait until half the work force have resigned before they do anything about it.
Apparently GB have had some 10 resignations in the past couple of weeks, amounting to some 5% of the pilot workforce, with more in the pipeline.
Wake up!
Jobs for the new guys, opportunities for FOs to fast track & DECs for suitable FOs & captains, not to mention the training opportunities!
However, GBs management have never been the type to pre-empt a situation, preferring to wait until half the work force have resigned before they do anything about it.
Apparently GB have had some 10 resignations in the past couple of weeks, amounting to some 5% of the pilot workforce, with more in the pipeline.
Wake up!
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Let's hope so - apparently he has fallen out with several of his trainers & line pilots & has even apparently reprimanded those that have resigned!
Goodwill between pilots & company = 0
What was that about CRM & leadership?
Goodwill between pilots & company = 0
What was that about CRM & leadership?
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GB pilots currently fly 80 hours more per year than the 6 airlines that are tracked by the pay tracker agreement. The company already gets above average value for the average salary that they pay. It's just a case of whether they are prepared to honour the deal signed a few years ago. It appears that the new ops director doesn't come from the same school (school of fair play/fair deals/keep your word/honour existing agreements) as the pilots that fly for the airline.
A strike is not imminent.
The ops director's demise might well be.
A strike is not imminent.
The ops director's demise might well be.
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Originally Posted by fiftyfour
It appears that the new ops director doesn't come from the same school (school of fair play/fair deals/keep your word/honour existing agreements) as the pilots that fly for the airline.
A strike is not imminent.
The ops director's demise might well be.
A strike is not imminent.
The ops director's demise might well be.
Good managers would not want to work at this level of less than
mediocrity.
He is operating at least two levels above that of his competence therefore I would say his future amongst his peer group on the board is assured. (Look at the last buffoon who held on for so long).
You can also guarantee the more conflict he creates with the pilots the greater his cache with the board. He WILL receive their full support he is after all acting for the shareholders. Sadly the only 'stakeholders' who count are the shareholders. We are merely the hired help.
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GB cannot afford to lose pilots. The summer programme is expected to be the busiest yet and the troops are already knackered! Fatigue is going to be a BIG issue in the coming months; it's not just the total flying hours but how they are rostered that's responsible. Until this is resolved then any talk of "increased productivity" is farcical.
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You're right - they can't afford to lose pilots or cabin crew, but I predict that they will lose both, in droves. The ten pilots & the number of cabin crew who have already resigned is just the beginning of a mass exodus of those who have just had enough & who can see that the writing is on the wall.
The company is going to get slaughtered financially & the crews are going to get slaughtered by the scheduling & rostering departments, who will attempt to extract any drops of blood remaining from last years shambles.
As usual, the management will attempt to "tough it out," & even the company owner/chairman has apparently stated that" if that's the way it is going to be, then that is the way it is going to be," so don't hold your breath for any improvements in the short term.
In any case, the pilots are too weak/divided to stand up for themselves & achieve any improvements from the inside.
Only when the aircraft are grounded due to lack of crews & it is costing them money will anything change.
The company is going to get slaughtered financially & the crews are going to get slaughtered by the scheduling & rostering departments, who will attempt to extract any drops of blood remaining from last years shambles.
As usual, the management will attempt to "tough it out," & even the company owner/chairman has apparently stated that" if that's the way it is going to be, then that is the way it is going to be," so don't hold your breath for any improvements in the short term.
In any case, the pilots are too weak/divided to stand up for themselves & achieve any improvements from the inside.
Only when the aircraft are grounded due to lack of crews & it is costing them money will anything change.
Last edited by Miss Inform; 23rd Feb 2006 at 12:32.
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Hard to see a future for the company with a management attitude like that.
If the Chairman has given up I would suggest it is time to dust off the CVs.
If the shareholders don't care, BA don't care and all the ex-BA managers don't care because they have their BA pensions to fall back on why should the crews be expected to prop it all up with longer hours / lower pay?
This is British management at its worst.
Can anybody see a route to survival for GB?
If the Chairman has given up I would suggest it is time to dust off the CVs.
If the shareholders don't care, BA don't care and all the ex-BA managers don't care because they have their BA pensions to fall back on why should the crews be expected to prop it all up with longer hours / lower pay?
This is British management at its worst.
Can anybody see a route to survival for GB?
not many options from what i can see.....
how do operators survive in this increasingly cut throat industry?
Expanding is one way, merging another. Selling up? Probably not.
Expansion has been discussed way too many times here before, (A330 etc) and people with bundles more knowledge than me say it'll NEVER happen, so i'll take that as read.
Merger? hard to see where. Not sure who owns GB's a/c, slots, route licences etc.... and from comments on here i'm not sure anyone else does either. Bmed maybe? BA....? If this airline is on the verge of destruction that i'm lead to believe then who'll take it on if it doesn't have assets like a/c, routes?
LoCo's are slowly pushing further out of europe but i don't think the longer sectors fit the business model do they?
And maybe younger, brighter managers with an exciting and fresh approach to the airline might be good. Of late it seems like a bit of a retirement ground for near sell by date ex-BA managers....
I shall watch with interest (massive interest actually, as i've just joined) to see what happens. In the meantime shall i not file away my CV just in case?
the BPM
how do operators survive in this increasingly cut throat industry?
Expanding is one way, merging another. Selling up? Probably not.
Expansion has been discussed way too many times here before, (A330 etc) and people with bundles more knowledge than me say it'll NEVER happen, so i'll take that as read.
Merger? hard to see where. Not sure who owns GB's a/c, slots, route licences etc.... and from comments on here i'm not sure anyone else does either. Bmed maybe? BA....? If this airline is on the verge of destruction that i'm lead to believe then who'll take it on if it doesn't have assets like a/c, routes?
LoCo's are slowly pushing further out of europe but i don't think the longer sectors fit the business model do they?
And maybe younger, brighter managers with an exciting and fresh approach to the airline might be good. Of late it seems like a bit of a retirement ground for near sell by date ex-BA managers....
I shall watch with interest (massive interest actually, as i've just joined) to see what happens. In the meantime shall i not file away my CV just in case?
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Let's hope so - apparently he has fallen out with several of his trainers & line pilots & has even apparently reprimanded those that have resigned!
Great shame to see the Co. going the way it is - low morale among pilots and cabin crew. lots of moaning etc. I thought at one time I'd be there 'til retirement.
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Originally Posted by Greenfinch
As one of those who have recently resigned, I'd just like to set the record straight on Miss Inform's quote. Whilst some of it may be true, I certainly wasn't reprimanded by the DFO for resigning, in fact he barely said a word to me about it (nice to feel valued - NOT !!!). Still, the Flight Ops Manager (DFO's No.2) was quite magnanamous about it.
Great shame to see the Co. going the way it is - low morale among pilots and cabin crew. lots of moaning etc. I thought at one time I'd be there 'til retirement.
Great shame to see the Co. going the way it is - low morale among pilots and cabin crew. lots of moaning etc. I thought at one time I'd be there 'til retirement.
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Regarding Greenfinch's post: well, maybe he just wasn't aware of your existence! I have certainly heard directly from several of those that have resigned that they have been reprimanded for resigning, that the company were relying on their presence for the success of the summer program, etc!
Low morale? Well, the management are certainly doing their bit to foster doom & gloom with their constant forecast of financial loss due to competition from the locos, fuel costs, poor punctuality record, etc.
The increasingly anti-social schedules combined with an unbelievably unsympathetic rostering system have combined to cause many to question the point of it all. If you think that the lifestyle/fatigue issues raised in that Ryanair program were appalling, I can tell you that it is worse in GB: we have pilots who have joined from Ryanair & believe it or not, we have pilots who have left us to join Ryanair. In every case, they have reported that lifestyle/fatigue issues are far worse in GB, despite the lower number of daily sectors & annual flying hours - "A real step backwards!" As for cabin crew, they are regularly exceeding 900 hours/year, despite a clause in their SLD limiting it to 900 hours.
It's time the truth is known - GB is not the holiday camp that most outsiders seem to think that it is & you should think very carefully before applying to join!
GB have got away with it to date for all the usual reasons, such as crews not knowing the SLD/FTLs, not wanting to kick up a fuss, etc. but that is all changing as crews become more "politically aware"...
Low morale? Well, the management are certainly doing their bit to foster doom & gloom with their constant forecast of financial loss due to competition from the locos, fuel costs, poor punctuality record, etc.
The increasingly anti-social schedules combined with an unbelievably unsympathetic rostering system have combined to cause many to question the point of it all. If you think that the lifestyle/fatigue issues raised in that Ryanair program were appalling, I can tell you that it is worse in GB: we have pilots who have joined from Ryanair & believe it or not, we have pilots who have left us to join Ryanair. In every case, they have reported that lifestyle/fatigue issues are far worse in GB, despite the lower number of daily sectors & annual flying hours - "A real step backwards!" As for cabin crew, they are regularly exceeding 900 hours/year, despite a clause in their SLD limiting it to 900 hours.
It's time the truth is known - GB is not the holiday camp that most outsiders seem to think that it is & you should think very carefully before applying to join!
GB have got away with it to date for all the usual reasons, such as crews not knowing the SLD/FTLs, not wanting to kick up a fuss, etc. but that is all changing as crews become more "politically aware"...
Last edited by Miss Inform; 25th Feb 2006 at 22:52.
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Miss Inform -- Typical member of the GB Moaning Group -- All wingeing but won't leave -- I really do hope you find the perfect job and find that lush green grass -- I do however fear you are deluded with regard to the conditions facing pilots within the UK industry....As for Ryanair being worse than GB -- why not go there and let us know what you think ----Can't wait to hear what you think about there !
BTW I am not the management in disguise but agree that the good old days of 3 day trips - 1 sector days etc etc are well gone as have such trips and perks in most other airlines too......
BTW I am not the management in disguise but agree that the good old days of 3 day trips - 1 sector days etc etc are well gone as have such trips and perks in most other airlines too......
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Originally Posted by Jet A1
Miss Inform -- Typical member of the GB Moaning Group -- All wingeing but won't leave -- I really do hope you find the perfect job and find that lush green grass -- I do however fear you are deluded with regard to the conditions facing pilots within the UK industry....As for Ryanair being worse than GB -- why not go there and let us know what you think ----Can't wait to hear what you think about there !
BTW I am not the management in disguise but agree that the good old days of 3 day trips - 1 sector days etc etc are well gone as have such trips and perks in most other airlines too......
BTW I am not the management in disguise but agree that the good old days of 3 day trips - 1 sector days etc etc are well gone as have such trips and perks in most other airlines too......
JET A1 I don't know how long you have been in GB, but at one point we all took a 10% pay cut and some a 50% paycut to help out and hang on to our jobs. The only group in the airline to do so. Are these the 'good old days' you are refering to? If so a return is easy to arrange and as you are not a whinger why not volunteer for a 50% pay cut and 900 hours to help out? The deterioration in your lifestyle and the effect on your familly is clearly acceptable to you, isn't it.
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Originally Posted by Major Cleve Saville
Life is cr@p everywhere, so that's alright then. The 'good old days have gone' : not for management they haven't, have you noticed a deterioration in their tems and conditions? Is their lifestyle significantly different to the one they signed up to? They are quite happy to accept the rewards when times are good but do they share the pain when times are bad? Think how much money the company would save if office staff were productive for 55 hours a week.
Very well said Major.
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beaver eager: thanks for your support for the Major.
Regrettably, the comments about life being cr@p everywhere would seem to be true, given the variety of issues publicised with regard to a variety of airlines in these forums.
Many of us are awaiting the outcome of the easyJet dispute with interest, for example, not to mention the pensions debacle at BA...
However, I do not believe that we should just sit back & accept that this state of affairs is the accepted standard for the industry or accept a further decline in standards. To quote from an article in the current edition of "The Log," "Next they'll be wanting quality of life!"
We are now, I believe, officially "in dispute" with the company following the recent breakdown of the pay talks with our CC. I say "believe," because they (the CC) never seem to actually tell us anything!
Regrettably, the comments about life being cr@p everywhere would seem to be true, given the variety of issues publicised with regard to a variety of airlines in these forums.
Many of us are awaiting the outcome of the easyJet dispute with interest, for example, not to mention the pensions debacle at BA...
However, I do not believe that we should just sit back & accept that this state of affairs is the accepted standard for the industry or accept a further decline in standards. To quote from an article in the current edition of "The Log," "Next they'll be wanting quality of life!"
We are now, I believe, officially "in dispute" with the company following the recent breakdown of the pay talks with our CC. I say "believe," because they (the CC) never seem to actually tell us anything!
Last edited by Miss Inform; 26th Feb 2006 at 13:40.
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Regarding Greenfinch's post: well, maybe he just wasn't aware of your existence!
