BA pilots 'prepared to strike'?
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 85
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You may be right that pilots won't suddenly leave. However Pilots may not join the bottom quite so quickly and transfers across from other airlines may well dry up. In addition morale will be shot to pieces and it won't be pleaseant to work for BA if the pension is nicked.
This Golden egg thing is rubbish - yes I am proud to work for BA and I am very lucky. However at the end of the day we are a company like anyone else. The arrogance that we are somehow the best is not true in many respects (although it is true in some).
The "Golden egg" will be somewhat tarnished if the pension goes, so see my first point.
This Golden egg thing is rubbish - yes I am proud to work for BA and I am very lucky. However at the end of the day we are a company like anyone else. The arrogance that we are somehow the best is not true in many respects (although it is true in some).
The "Golden egg" will be somewhat tarnished if the pension goes, so see my first point.
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 516
Likes: 0
From: uk
Ornithopter
People will always join BA. What you do not realise (already being on the inside) is that you are well rewarded by industry standards.
There are many many airlines who work damn close to your 850 hours a year and get nowhere near the pay you lot do. Not to mention the healthcare, travel perks etc etc.
There will never be a shortage of applicants to BA. Admittedly, you may not attract people from First Choice, Thomas Cook, Monarch etc etc any more, but you will ALWAYS attract people from other smaller airlines.
And what's more, these people don't care about your final salary pensions.
Sad but true.
In the meantime, I wish you well in your negotiations with management.
People will always join BA. What you do not realise (already being on the inside) is that you are well rewarded by industry standards.
There are many many airlines who work damn close to your 850 hours a year and get nowhere near the pay you lot do. Not to mention the healthcare, travel perks etc etc.
There will never be a shortage of applicants to BA. Admittedly, you may not attract people from First Choice, Thomas Cook, Monarch etc etc any more, but you will ALWAYS attract people from other smaller airlines.
And what's more, these people don't care about your final salary pensions.
Sad but true.
In the meantime, I wish you well in your negotiations with management.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,934
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From: The Twilight Zone near 30W
stan,
The point is not that 20% of us will go to airlines offering "ridiculously large and unsustainable" pensions. I disagree that NAPS FSS is unsustainable anyway, however as you say, there aren't really any other companies offering a similar package.
If the NAPS Final Salary pension goes from BA, very few of us will be prepared to put up with the cr*p that is BA's LHR operation for a deal which will have become equivalent to what we can get elsewhere.
Where will you go? To all the other airlines that offer ridiculously large and unsustainable pensions?
I think you will find that NOT A SINGLE AIRLINE in the UK offers a final salary scheme for new joiners from day one anymore.
I think you will find that NOT A SINGLE AIRLINE in the UK offers a final salary scheme for new joiners from day one anymore.
If the NAPS Final Salary pension goes from BA, very few of us will be prepared to put up with the cr*p that is BA's LHR operation for a deal which will have become equivalent to what we can get elsewhere.
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,135
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From: Camp X-Ray
Stansdead
If all these pilots are queuing up to join BA then why have they had to drop the experience requirements from a type rating on 744,777 or 320 to just 400 hours on any large aircraft? Why are they calling up people who were rejected last year and asking them to have another go. Why are they having to place the 200hr SSPs at LGW because DEPs are refusing to join if they go there? Why are the ex-bmi guys in A position that they can insist on long haul or they won't join?
I think you overestimate the number of experienced pilots who are willing to give up jobs and potential commands in regional based airlines to move or commute to the LHR area and spend 10+ years in the right hand seat. The lions share of the DEP intake has come from bmi and My Travel, people who were already based in the South East. Once that supply is exhausted then what next?
If all these pilots are queuing up to join BA then why have they had to drop the experience requirements from a type rating on 744,777 or 320 to just 400 hours on any large aircraft? Why are they calling up people who were rejected last year and asking them to have another go. Why are they having to place the 200hr SSPs at LGW because DEPs are refusing to join if they go there? Why are the ex-bmi guys in A position that they can insist on long haul or they won't join?
I think you overestimate the number of experienced pilots who are willing to give up jobs and potential commands in regional based airlines to move or commute to the LHR area and spend 10+ years in the right hand seat. The lions share of the DEP intake has come from bmi and My Travel, people who were already based in the South East. Once that supply is exhausted then what next?
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 731
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From: Strood, Kent
You'd still have to think twice. Several Captains at LGW have gone back RHS to get some work/life balance back despite the pay cut of circa £15k p.a. Until recently I never considered such a move, but I think about it more and more seriously on a daily basis now. The only thing holding me back at the moment it the fear of a career average pension scheme, which would make it important to stay LHS despite the crappy lifestyle at LGW.
I don't think that DE LH Captains would happen in BA like it is happening in EK.
I don't think that DE LH Captains would happen in BA like it is happening in EK.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: u.k.
BA strike
Ola L&G
stop moaning,
you all voted for Rob Hall's new "wonderfull world" in 2003 even though old gits like myself said no- for christs sake even C.G. was telling you to say yes. You have got what you voted for "CRAP" and Rob Hall became a nonflying manager. Sort BALPA out before it really screws you!!!
stop moaning,
you all voted for Rob Hall's new "wonderfull world" in 2003 even though old gits like myself said no- for christs sake even C.G. was telling you to say yes. You have got what you voted for "CRAP" and Rob Hall became a nonflying manager. Sort BALPA out before it really screws you!!!
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: Seoul
BA CC attitudes
xnigelinrealwold has hit the proverbial nail square on the head.
BA CC BALPA, with the odd exception, is full of self interested, self promoting ar*e holes, who with their luddite attitudes and desire to preserve their own golden egg, are shafting the rest of the pilot workforce. Just look at the new pension scheme.
New pay deal . . . look who benefited most from that? New SH Captains?
Ts & Cs have been erroded to such an extent that we are no longer an industry leader, as we once were. Who's to blame? BASSA? Just look what a strong union has done for the other side of the flight deck door.
For those of you in the CC who swan about the place as psudo managers, please do the community the best service you can and just disappear.
Rant over - I feel slightly less frustrated.
edited due typically poor spelling
BA CC BALPA, with the odd exception, is full of self interested, self promoting ar*e holes, who with their luddite attitudes and desire to preserve their own golden egg, are shafting the rest of the pilot workforce. Just look at the new pension scheme.
New pay deal . . . look who benefited most from that? New SH Captains?
Ts & Cs have been erroded to such an extent that we are no longer an industry leader, as we once were. Who's to blame? BASSA? Just look what a strong union has done for the other side of the flight deck door.
For those of you in the CC who swan about the place as psudo managers, please do the community the best service you can and just disappear.
Rant over - I feel slightly less frustrated.
edited due typically poor spelling
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 783
Likes: 0
From: The Deep South (Sussex)
It's rather a strange suggestion, that the BALPA reps should voluntarily quit their posts because you don't agree with them.
They were obviously voted into their positions by the majority of company pilots (that bothered to vote) and can be voted out in the same way.
But let me guess...you don't believe in voting-just sniping from the sidelines?
They were obviously voted into their positions by the majority of company pilots (that bothered to vote) and can be voted out in the same way.
But let me guess...you don't believe in voting-just sniping from the sidelines?
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,135
Likes: 0
From: Camp X-Ray
BASSA? Just look what a strong union has done for the other side of the flight deck door.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: Northern England, United Kingdom
Mini - mums.
You might be right about a small number of the reps, but rather than voting them out, why aren't you standing yourself.
Have you ever served as a rep or do you intend putting yourself forward as a staff rep? If not, please try and be more constructive and rather than complaining on here, at least put some time into supporting and helping those reps that you do trust.
You might be right about a small number of the reps, but rather than voting them out, why aren't you standing yourself.
Have you ever served as a rep or do you intend putting yourself forward as a staff rep? If not, please try and be more constructive and rather than complaining on here, at least put some time into supporting and helping those reps that you do trust.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: Twilight Zone
Originally Posted by Le Pen
Hi all,
Whats the latest?????
Are we still gonna have a pension at the end of the day??
Love
LP
Whats the latest?????
Are we still gonna have a pension at the end of the day??
Love
LP
Let the fun begin. Not
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
From: uk
Originally Posted by Fly747
What next? DECs ala EK! That's the only way I'd join.
thanks for that, was getting a bit depressed about the state of my pension, t&c's etc etc etc and then u gave me the image of you sitting at 'york int' with a a name like 'fly 747' waiting for a dec.
cheers mate, i'm feeling better already.
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
From: over the hill
What a load of total cr@p so-called professional aviation has become. The sheer bitterness of the "you dont live in the real world" squad has to be seen to be believed - just read it here for a full flavour.
The facts are simple. BA pilots signed a contract with NAPS and Bidline as the bedrock of it. If I wanted an early command and to come home at night more often than not at work I would have joined a charter company on a shorthaul fleet. If BA remove either of these two bedrock items then I and the rest of us will strike until BA ceases to exist. Sure, after that come on down and "nick our jobs" - coz you'll fly for food, or coz you hate us, or coz its a bigger plane, and you still hate us, or WHAT-ever. I for one dont give a flying you know what anymore. BA is a chaotic shambles led by liars and cheats (Hi R@b) who would sell their Grandmother for a dime. Take my damn "job" and enjoy it. There are other things to do in life than swim in the cesspool of self-righteousness you lot dish up. What do you think we should do - ASK BA for a pay cut?
You are so riven by hatred you cant see that, like it or not, the BA contract sets a benchmark for the UK industry to negotiate to. Yeah, that's right, keep doing your own management's jobs for them by lambasting our T's and C's - think that's going to improve yours? DO YOU? C'MON, dumbasses, DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT? Ah, who cares what you think! '!!!! the lot of yer', as O'Roiiley would say. What a stupid industry this has become. Roll on sanity and the chance to do something else, soon I suspect, but by God before then I and the rest of us who were recruited on a contract will see BA dead in the dust.
The facts are simple. BA pilots signed a contract with NAPS and Bidline as the bedrock of it. If I wanted an early command and to come home at night more often than not at work I would have joined a charter company on a shorthaul fleet. If BA remove either of these two bedrock items then I and the rest of us will strike until BA ceases to exist. Sure, after that come on down and "nick our jobs" - coz you'll fly for food, or coz you hate us, or coz its a bigger plane, and you still hate us, or WHAT-ever. I for one dont give a flying you know what anymore. BA is a chaotic shambles led by liars and cheats (Hi R@b) who would sell their Grandmother for a dime. Take my damn "job" and enjoy it. There are other things to do in life than swim in the cesspool of self-righteousness you lot dish up. What do you think we should do - ASK BA for a pay cut?
You are so riven by hatred you cant see that, like it or not, the BA contract sets a benchmark for the UK industry to negotiate to. Yeah, that's right, keep doing your own management's jobs for them by lambasting our T's and C's - think that's going to improve yours? DO YOU? C'MON, dumbasses, DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT? Ah, who cares what you think! '!!!! the lot of yer', as O'Roiiley would say. What a stupid industry this has become. Roll on sanity and the chance to do something else, soon I suspect, but by God before then I and the rest of us who were recruited on a contract will see BA dead in the dust.
Last edited by ShortfinalFred; 28th February 2006 at 18:23.
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
From: over the hill
d246? And you are? A professional whinger from the sidelines? A person of snide observations and no spine? Its not "professional" to defend your contract is it it not? I guess that makes most of the UK's dentists "unprofessional" for refusing their proposed new contracts? Ah, I forget, they are "real" professionals are they? And flying an airliner full of real live people is analagous to driving the number 42 bus down the Clapham High Road isn't it? Hardly worthy of pay, let alone a pension to live on at retirement? We will defend our contracts until BA is broke if needs be - I no longer care what you or anyone else thinks of that straightforward proposition - or whether you think that is "professional" or not. And as for the sc@m who dare call themselves a "leadership team" who stand to personally profit in an obscene way by this act of highstreet robbery - good luck managing the aftermath of the strike - you'll need it.
Last edited by ShortfinalFred; 28th February 2006 at 18:41.
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,011
Likes: 1
From: Hampshire, UK
'Fred, threads like this remind me of the unforgettable 'Let's all take a swing at BA for operating a flight continuation policy' (engine out ex LAX for those that need reminding). In the interests of taking a sledgehammer to BA, or in this case, BA pilots, all logic flies out of the window. All that matters is being able to slip that stiletto in on whatever issue annoys these people. In this case it is jealousy of lifestyle, equipment, career whatever!
I find no logic or reason to argue these things anymore. They are more interested in swinging their particular aggressions than indulging in a 2-way conversation. I actually think it better not to give them a forum now, or reason to come back with the same crap because you have discussed a point. With the impending approach of positive and aggressive action which will get these people up and buzzing like a hornets nest being attacked, I think it is advisable to stick to BALPA and ignore what is being said outside- from experience there is no discussion- it is just trumpet your anti-BA/anti-BA pilot prejudices to as many people as you can!
I find no logic or reason to argue these things anymore. They are more interested in swinging their particular aggressions than indulging in a 2-way conversation. I actually think it better not to give them a forum now, or reason to come back with the same crap because you have discussed a point. With the impending approach of positive and aggressive action which will get these people up and buzzing like a hornets nest being attacked, I think it is advisable to stick to BALPA and ignore what is being said outside- from experience there is no discussion- it is just trumpet your anti-BA/anti-BA pilot prejudices to as many people as you can!
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
From: uk
rainboe,
just wanted to thank you for the bang on job you did protecting our t&c's when u where on watch!
if all u retired aps barons had fought a half decent fight against the loss of status in the company over the last 30 years then maybe the 'youngsters' like myself wouldn't be facing such a difficult fight. every time some hamble gent (almost all of whom i enjoy flying with greatly by the way) moans about lack of status etc etc just b4 telling me how much they have waiting for them when they go i am amazed that they don't see the irony of their position.
you sir deserve every penny of your pension. i grudge you not a cent. just wish you'd fought for the cheese board a bit harder
enjoy.
ps feel free to tell me i shouldn't be posting on this forum, or that my spelling is beneath that expected of a child etc etc
just wanted to thank you for the bang on job you did protecting our t&c's when u where on watch!
if all u retired aps barons had fought a half decent fight against the loss of status in the company over the last 30 years then maybe the 'youngsters' like myself wouldn't be facing such a difficult fight. every time some hamble gent (almost all of whom i enjoy flying with greatly by the way) moans about lack of status etc etc just b4 telling me how much they have waiting for them when they go i am amazed that they don't see the irony of their position.
you sir deserve every penny of your pension. i grudge you not a cent. just wish you'd fought for the cheese board a bit harder
enjoy.
ps feel free to tell me i shouldn't be posting on this forum, or that my spelling is beneath that expected of a child etc etc