BA pilots 'prepared to strike'?
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Out of the loop
BA pension proposal
I do not have a crystal ball on this one, but my best guess is that Amicus will go with the other ground staff unions so as not to seem weak, and reject the deal.
What BALPA does then is think carefully..... I doubt if BA will stay with the current deal if it has to impose one on everbody else......but this new twist is not one that I had thought would happen. So all bets are off as they say.
What BALPA does then is think carefully..... I doubt if BA will stay with the current deal if it has to impose one on everbody else......but this new twist is not one that I had thought would happen. So all bets are off as they say.
Thread Starter
PPRuNe Person
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: see roster
Whoops. BALPA is recommending the deal for very good reasons. Having led the whole process BALPA feels that we now have the best deal. If the members vote to accept, then BALPAs position is 'protected'.
Joined: May 2003
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From: london
Wot then?........... the other unions get more cash shoved in their pensions and 20 free hotmail tickets for them and their family, a familiar story?? All because the pilots did not have the balls to take it to a strike?
WWW may be correct BALPA have done enough to buy out those with 10-15 years to go and 10-15 years in the scheme, for me the RPI cap will move 95% to more like 75% by the time I retire, and thats being optimistic.
As a BALPA rep has stated elsewhere........ don't worry cos you won't be getting much more than RPI pay rises. Glad to see BALPA setting their sights high for future pay increases, at the moment its gotta be a NO from me, however as I have previously said BALPA/BA have done enough to satisfy many of the members.
WWW may be correct BALPA have done enough to buy out those with 10-15 years to go and 10-15 years in the scheme, for me the RPI cap will move 95% to more like 75% by the time I retire, and thats being optimistic.
As a BALPA rep has stated elsewhere........ don't worry cos you won't be getting much more than RPI pay rises. Glad to see BALPA setting their sights high for future pay increases, at the moment its gotta be a NO from me, however as I have previously said BALPA/BA have done enough to satisfy many of the members.
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: UK
[QUOTE=WhoopWhoop Whoops;3066546]I note the recent rejection of the NAPS deal by the GMB.
It seems very likely that the T&G will go the same way, judging by the BASSA
position.
If AMICUS in view of the other union positions also do a U turn, only BALPA will be in agreement with the BA proposal.
QUOTE]
T&G maybe, but AMICUS? You must be joking! They'll roll over and take it all the way to the hilt as they almost always do.
Just to clear up a bit of confusion.
My earlier post ref; It costing me 17% was based on the earlier proposal not the current one. So I concede, things have improved, just.
And another thing, can someone explain to me how the abatement rate will be affected when/if we ever get a pay rise greater than rpi?
At the moment there is a marked difference in abatement between NAPS1 and NAPS2. If we then factor in differences in pay rises between basic pay and pensionable pay how is the current abatement rate calculation going to work?
I am confused.
It seems very likely that the T&G will go the same way, judging by the BASSA
position.
If AMICUS in view of the other union positions also do a U turn, only BALPA will be in agreement with the BA proposal.
QUOTE]
T&G maybe, but AMICUS? You must be joking! They'll roll over and take it all the way to the hilt as they almost always do.
Just to clear up a bit of confusion.
My earlier post ref; It costing me 17% was based on the earlier proposal not the current one. So I concede, things have improved, just.
And another thing, can someone explain to me how the abatement rate will be affected when/if we ever get a pay rise greater than rpi?
At the moment there is a marked difference in abatement between NAPS1 and NAPS2. If we then factor in differences in pay rises between basic pay and pensionable pay how is the current abatement rate calculation going to work?
I am confused.
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From: london
Correct yacht man. Future pensionable pay will only increase with RPI (allows the company to write off £400 mil) so year in year out if you get greater than RPI payrises your pensionable pay decreases. Do an excel spreadsheet and look at what happens to 100k in 20 years time if you get just .5% above RPI by way of a payrise. Then wonder why BA would not move on this variable in any way shape or form.
In the BALPA phone poll I put this at the top of my priorities, but I guess my fellow pilots did not, like plaque that clogs your arteries this is a silent killer of final salary pension
In the BALPA phone poll I put this at the top of my priorities, but I guess my fellow pilots did not, like plaque that clogs your arteries this is a silent killer of final salary pension
Controversial, moi?
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: UK
TURIN
If you are a pilot the answers to your questions are on the BALPA website.
Da Dog
According to the data BALPA have published historically our pay rises have averaged RPI + 0.2%. To reduce 95% to 75% at that percentage would take 100 years.
Anybody that believes that a FSS scheme will be in existence in BA (assuming BA survives its continuing suicidal tendency) in 40 years let alone 100 is......well we can dream.
If you are a pilot the answers to your questions are on the BALPA website.
Da Dog
According to the data BALPA have published historically our pay rises have averaged RPI + 0.2%. To reduce 95% to 75% at that percentage would take 100 years.
Anybody that believes that a FSS scheme will be in existence in BA (assuming BA survives its continuing suicidal tendency) in 40 years let alone 100 is......well we can dream.
Joined: Jun 2000
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From: last time I looked I was still here.
This thread started 12 months ago. Surely this must be a record for Prune. So, what is going on, and what is going to happen? A 'threat to strike' for over 1 year is an empty threat.
Controversial, moi?
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: UK
The BA pilots are no longer likely to strike, BALPA have recommended acceptance of the proposed changes negotiated with BA. The threat was there, a mutually acceptable solution was found.
It was no empty threat.
Please don't bother yourself with actually reading the past few days postings let us answer your questions to save you the trouble.
It was no empty threat.
Please don't bother yourself with actually reading the past few days postings let us answer your questions to save you the trouble.
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: Planet Earth
Lies, damned lies and statistics...
Working out the cost of the RPI cap is, of course, impossible, since it depends on both future RPI and future pay rises. So to get some idea on how much the RPI cap will bite, I made a couple of assumptions and plugged them into a spreadsheet. Assumption 1 was an RPI of 3% (although the numbers aren't too sensitive to this one); assumption 2 was that pay rises will continue being around the RPI +.2% mark - that's the important part.
Anyway, here's what I found. If your pensionable pay today is 60K, then if the current deal didn't happen, in 25 years your pensionable pay would be just under 128K. With the RPI cap in place. then the 60K would be 122K; except that the increase in pensionable pay means your pensionable pay moves to 71.2K from April, and would then be just under 145K in 25 years.
Of course, you'll have to work an extra five years to get your pension (we're all going for Option 1, aren't we?); but using the transition funds to bump up the pensionable pay looks like it's more than offset the RPI cap. Or at least, that's what ten minutes with a spreadsheet seems to indicate. Who needs financial advisors, anyway?
Working out the cost of the RPI cap is, of course, impossible, since it depends on both future RPI and future pay rises. So to get some idea on how much the RPI cap will bite, I made a couple of assumptions and plugged them into a spreadsheet. Assumption 1 was an RPI of 3% (although the numbers aren't too sensitive to this one); assumption 2 was that pay rises will continue being around the RPI +.2% mark - that's the important part.
Anyway, here's what I found. If your pensionable pay today is 60K, then if the current deal didn't happen, in 25 years your pensionable pay would be just under 128K. With the RPI cap in place. then the 60K would be 122K; except that the increase in pensionable pay means your pensionable pay moves to 71.2K from April, and would then be just under 145K in 25 years.
Of course, you'll have to work an extra five years to get your pension (we're all going for Option 1, aren't we?); but using the transition funds to bump up the pensionable pay looks like it's more than offset the RPI cap. Or at least, that's what ten minutes with a spreadsheet seems to indicate. Who needs financial advisors, anyway?
Mistrust in Management
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: UK
RAT 5
Your comment "A 'threat to strike' for over 1 year is an empty threat".
Not at all in my view. A threat to strike is there to achieve certain ends. If those ends are achieved then the need to strike is then removed.
A bit like the 'cold war' really. If you push us we will drop the bomb. BA Pilots striking is the equivilant for BA management of a nuclear strike - BA management cannot return the bomb because the destruction is complete. (MAD = Mutually assured destruction).
So it seems to me like a high level game of 'brinkmanship' where both sides come to the conclusion that to go further could result in misery for all.
I guess that had it been necessary for the bomb to be dropped then out of the holocaust a new airline would form which would eventually provide employment for most. It does then beg the question of what T & C's would BA2, or whatever, provide.
Regards
Exeng
Not at all in my view. A threat to strike is there to achieve certain ends. If those ends are achieved then the need to strike is then removed.
A bit like the 'cold war' really. If you push us we will drop the bomb. BA Pilots striking is the equivilant for BA management of a nuclear strike - BA management cannot return the bomb because the destruction is complete. (MAD = Mutually assured destruction).
So it seems to me like a high level game of 'brinkmanship' where both sides come to the conclusion that to go further could result in misery for all.
I guess that had it been necessary for the bomb to be dropped then out of the holocaust a new airline would form which would eventually provide employment for most. It does then beg the question of what T & C's would BA2, or whatever, provide.
Regards
Exeng
Last edited by exeng; 13th January 2007 at 22:38.
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: UK
I get the feeling that BALPA are more happy with the deal than other unions, think I may have worked out why.
Am I right in understanding that pilots have some deal at present that gives them 80% of total pay is used for pensionable purposes, as allowances/shift/flying pay is the other 20%.
Am I right that under the new deal, this figure of 80% slides upto 95%, which looks like a pensionable pay rise of 19%.
Am I correct yes or no???????????????????????????
Am I right in understanding that pilots have some deal at present that gives them 80% of total pay is used for pensionable purposes, as allowances/shift/flying pay is the other 20%.
Am I right that under the new deal, this figure of 80% slides upto 95%, which looks like a pensionable pay rise of 19%.
Am I correct yes or no???????????????????????????
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: UK
Oh come on Nigel - you were always going to take the first best offer on the table because:
a) Seniority
b) Seniority
So thats two thirds of the pilots
Followed by an innate belief you are working for a company with a bright future which looks after its pilots despite them missguidingly joining BALPA. Divide and rule and you know what I mean Now, Then and in the Future.
Long haul luvvies enjoy it whilst it lasts. Which it won't. Walsh is in chargw now and he knows every cliche about your job and will exterminate your desire to remain in BA as his Bonus in Yr 19992010 will dictate.
Sorry.
AP
a) Seniority
b) Seniority
So thats two thirds of the pilots
Followed by an innate belief you are working for a company with a bright future which looks after its pilots despite them missguidingly joining BALPA. Divide and rule and you know what I mean Now, Then and in the Future.
Long haul luvvies enjoy it whilst it lasts. Which it won't. Walsh is in chargw now and he knows every cliche about your job and will exterminate your desire to remain in BA as his Bonus in Yr 19992010 will dictate.
Sorry.
AP
Joined: Apr 1999
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From: UK
Am I right in understanding that pilots have some deal at present that gives them 80% of total pay is used for pensionable purposes, as allowances/shift/flying pay is the other 20%.
Am I right that under the new deal, this figure of 80% slides upto 95%, which looks like a pensionable pay rise of 19%.
Am I correct yes or no???????????????????????????
Am I right that under the new deal, this figure of 80% slides upto 95%, which looks like a pensionable pay rise of 19%.
Am I correct yes or no???????????????????????????
Joined: Mar 1999
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From: Zurich
Carnage Mate...
Nah... 
Ask any of the 40 or so OSE's you may see around the patch.... And they'll be pleased to tell you about the TMG poor pensionable pay position. Ohhhh alliteration 
Sorry.
LP
We are the only group in the company that doesn't get 100% of basic as pensionable pay.
Ask any of the 40 or so OSE's you may see around the patch.... And they'll be pleased to tell you about the TMG poor pensionable pay position. Ohhhh alliteration Sorry.
LP
Joined: Feb 2002
Aviation Qualifications: AME
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From: UK
"We are the only group in the company that doesn't get 100% of basic as pensionable pay. "
Apart from the abatement rate of course, yes?
I am not a pilot, therefore could someone explain my earlier question please?
Apart from the abatement rate of course, yes?
I am not a pilot, therefore could someone explain my earlier question please?
Controversial, moi?
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,622
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From: UK
TURIN
I do not know about NAPS 2 but in NAPS 1 pilot's pensionable pay is, at the moment, 80% of the LH Pay Point 24 scale minus a sum equivalent to 1.5 times the current single person's basic State Pension (the reduction for 2006-2007 is £6,552).
The idea of reducing the pensionable pay is that this portion of pay is already pensioned through the Basic State Pension. So there is no need for the employee nor British Airways to pay pension contributions on this portion of pay.
In the proposed deal pilot's pensionable pay will be 95% of the LH PP24 scale minus the above abatement.
I do not know about NAPS 2 but in NAPS 1 pilot's pensionable pay is, at the moment, 80% of the LH Pay Point 24 scale minus a sum equivalent to 1.5 times the current single person's basic State Pension (the reduction for 2006-2007 is £6,552).
The idea of reducing the pensionable pay is that this portion of pay is already pensioned through the Basic State Pension. So there is no need for the employee nor British Airways to pay pension contributions on this portion of pay.
In the proposed deal pilot's pensionable pay will be 95% of the LH PP24 scale minus the above abatement.