99% of easyjet pilots reject pay offer
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Easyjet
Maybe Leo you would advise MOL to recruit unhappy easyjet pilots rather than SAS pilots ! He would have less hassle when it comes to negotiating a wage deal with easyjet pilots. Easyjet pilots are the worst paid pilots in Europe. MOL would save money by recruiting easyjet pilots rather than stubborn SAS pilots.
Easyjet pilots are the worst paid pilots in Europe.
Try Sky Europe, Wizz, Air berlin- Then come closer to home and try Jet2, BMI Baby or Astraeus!!
We aren't the BEST paid pilots is europe (Neither, by the way are Ryanair!!) but we're not the worst either.
Perhaps uninformed members of rival camps pushing there own agenda might consider [I]BOGGIN OFF[I] from this disscustion and returning to their respective burrows?
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Originally Posted by Norman Stanley Fletcher
They are now required to step up to the plate and support their UK colleagues in ensuring a high percentage vote against the deal - I fully expect them to do so.
I sincerely hope you are right and that everyone finaly wakes up!!
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Leo - you are quite correct in your analysis of the first half loss. In the 10 years that easyJet have existed I understand they have never once made a profit over the winter but have always gone on to make an overall profit for each financial year. This year will be no exception, and I confidently predict that we will make a higher profit this year than last year.
As one who loathes unions with a vengeance, you will of course be disappointed and possibly alarmed by the support BALPA has enjoyed from the pilots at easyJet. Is everyone happy with all BALPA has done? Absolutely not! Are BALPA the only in game in town? Undoubtedly! In short, for all BALPA's faults, they still represent the brightest hope for our company and yours. The original offer received by easyJet pilots was a disgrace and we now have something to work with. It is not good enough yet but it is a start. If we are successful I fully expect Ryanair pilots to get with the programme and join BALPA/REPA en-masse. However shocking such a prospect may be to you Leo - that is the future.
Regarding working for easyJet, it is not the best but it is far from the worst. We are in a fight to make easyJet the shorthaul employer of choice. We are far from achieving that goal but we are nevertheless on a journey that will take us a long way down the road to getting there - mass BALPA membership is one of the tools we will use to making it happen.
As one who loathes unions with a vengeance, you will of course be disappointed and possibly alarmed by the support BALPA has enjoyed from the pilots at easyJet. Is everyone happy with all BALPA has done? Absolutely not! Are BALPA the only in game in town? Undoubtedly! In short, for all BALPA's faults, they still represent the brightest hope for our company and yours. The original offer received by easyJet pilots was a disgrace and we now have something to work with. It is not good enough yet but it is a start. If we are successful I fully expect Ryanair pilots to get with the programme and join BALPA/REPA en-masse. However shocking such a prospect may be to you Leo - that is the future.
Regarding working for easyJet, it is not the best but it is far from the worst. We are in a fight to make easyJet the shorthaul employer of choice. We are far from achieving that goal but we are nevertheless on a journey that will take us a long way down the road to getting there - mass BALPA membership is one of the tools we will use to making it happen.
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Originally Posted by CaptainProp
THIS is what I'm afraid they (SXF,ORY,DTM) will not do!! They are too happy about being "saved" to care about anything or anyone!!
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Bleeding Oranges and the Iceman Cometh.
you will of course be disappointed and possibly alarmed by the support BALPA has enjoyed from the pilots at easyJet.
Now then, here's something I rarely do. Professor David Metcalf of the LSE wrote a balanced view of the decline in British Unionisation over the years, entitled Resurgence or Perdition. You're evidently in favour of the former, I observe and advocate the latter. I offer it to you for your review and consideration, Norman. The work can be summarised in the following way. The root of union power comes from a closed shop and thereby, an implicit strike threat. You can't have one without the other, can you Norman, and that's what you're on about. The major fly in that ointment, though, is that there has been a linear decline in union membership in the private sector since the end of the Great Patriotic War (Soviet affectation intentional) and it isn't going to be reversed, no matter how much the Merv Granshaw's of this world would have it otherwise. Add to that the fact that margins, in your airline anyway, are razor thin at the best of times, the slightest change in, say, the price of oil, and your management simply has no alternative but to shave predictable costs, like at the intersection of pay, productivity and rostering, even where they've been cut to the bone already. I feel for you, Norman, I really do, but the real enemy is your business model. It doesn't work and your airline is, and has been for some time, sailing perilously close to the wind. You may care to consider that in the present climate of M&A. You think your squeals are unheard in Reykjavik? When the rabbit starts screaming, the fox comes running.....but not to help.
In short, for all BALPA's faults, they still represent the brightest hope for our company and yours.
At Ryanair, we have 5-3, stable rosters, home every night, and when the new 4-4 rostering system is introduced, there'll be no shortage of people knocking at our door, Norman, you among them I hope. Tell ya what, PM me with your CV and I'll handle your application personally. I'll even guarantee your choice of base so long as its neither Girona or Skavsta and will give you a personal introduction to the Dwarf, Merv's counterpart on this side of the Irish Sea, so that you can see with your own eyes just what kind of clueless troll 800 quid per year buys you in Ireland.
mass BALPA membership is one of the tools we will use to making it happen.
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Originally Posted by Leo Hairy-Camel
No, Norman. Wrong again I'm afraid. Mass BALPA membership will serve only to buy you and your airline a plot here, and in the case of Easyjet, sooner rather than later.
Time will tell, but I´m certain that a well paid unionized workforce can go hand in hand with a profitable company.
Originally Posted by Leo Hairy-Camel
Do you chaps really fly 3 earlies, 2 lates, 2 days off and commence on earlies again?
Our business model is very different to yours, as you well know. Ryanair, like all profitable airlines, operate in a niche market - and we don't. However, we reckon that in our market we're doing ok, and there's plenty of scope to do a lot better. And we reckon our market is a lot larger than yours.
How we, as pilots, choose to spend our £400/£600 of income a year is just that - our choice. If you are so concerned that it is a waste of money, why not come here and campaign against other wastes of money, like say lottery tickets?
I'm very happy for you that you're making a fortune. I sincerely hope that you buck the current trend and stop having very close shaves with the ground, and manage to persuade the world that you're not the bunch of cold calling driveway tarmacers that you are currently portrayed as. It does our reputation no good, you know old chap.
Good luck!
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I sincerely hope that you buck the current trend and stop having very close shaves with the ground, and manage to persuade the world that you're not the bunch of cold calling driveway tarmacers that you are currently portrayed as
Wheres me Daag?
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As an infrequent visitor to this sight can someone please clarify something,
Does Leo=MOL, cos he sure rambles on like him?
And before anyone else mentions the losses, look back every year at this time on PPRUNE and you will see the same disscussions - yawn
Does Leo=MOL, cos he sure rambles on like him?
And before anyone else mentions the losses, look back every year at this time on PPRUNE and you will see the same disscussions - yawn
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Leo - as one who has been a closet admirer of your rhetoric in recent times, I am delighted to find my comments have stirred something within you and honoured to have PPRUNE space devoted to your disection of my comments. Your discussions are so reminiscent of one of your late, great Irish predecessors - William Joyce who was better known as Lord Haw-Haw! You will recall that the cause he backed with such certainty ran into a spot of bother and he himself came to a sad end - such is the way of those who back losers with unswerving loyalty. I always feel that being mates with MOL is a bit like having a cobra for a tie - looks cool and attracts loads of attention, but in the end it will bite you in a big way.
But back to the facts (boring I know but someone has to look at them I suppose). Our roster pattern is 5/2-5/4 and consists of 5 earlies followed by 5 lates which is remarkably similar to your own (5/3-5/3 they tell me). The pattern is undoubtedly contraversial but come back in a year's time and it might all look a bit different. That boring organisation BALPA may just have renegotiated a better deal.
Regarding the business model - you chaps have undoubtedly done well and frankly I cannot really criticize it. Flying from somewhere in the middle of nowhere to somewhere else in the middle of nowhere, call them both somewhere else and then charge the airports for the privelege of having you is a stunning model that has served you well. We have, however, decided to go a bit more 'mainstream' and take on the big boys in their own backyard. In all honesty, I would be a bit happier if we had gone for a combination of your model and ours - but only time will tell if we go down that route.
Regarding the effect of fuel, I can only assume that Ryanair aircraft run on rainwater or something as you do not seem to think that your company is affected by the current fuel prices. Closer examination will show that we are all subject to the same pressures and even your beloved MOL is warning of the intolerable market conditions that will arise if the fuel price continues to soar.
What is absolutely clear is that despite your great sucess as a company, supposed best salaries in the business (I almost thought of applying to you myself recently), you cannot seem to get pilots to fly your aircraft. Sure, there is no shortage of wet-behind-the-ears young lads who will be FOs before getting a proper job with BA or Virgin - but getting captains seems to be a problem. You are going to find it a much bigger problem in times to come.
In the final analysis, Ryanair is the airline equivalent of a pig dressed in a posh suit. You can make it look as great as you want but in the end it is just another pig rolling in the dirt. The very guys you need to make your company successful have seen your mate MOL for what he is and have voted with their feet without ever darkening the door of an interview. The characteristics which got MOL where he is are the ones that will bring him down. His unpleasant, ill-mannered and objectionable demeanour have guaranteed that he will never recruit the very people he needs to keep the show on the road. When the wheel eventually does come off the pram, you will be the guy who, like Lord Haw-Haw before you, put your unbending faith in a complete loser.
But back to the facts (boring I know but someone has to look at them I suppose). Our roster pattern is 5/2-5/4 and consists of 5 earlies followed by 5 lates which is remarkably similar to your own (5/3-5/3 they tell me). The pattern is undoubtedly contraversial but come back in a year's time and it might all look a bit different. That boring organisation BALPA may just have renegotiated a better deal.
Regarding the business model - you chaps have undoubtedly done well and frankly I cannot really criticize it. Flying from somewhere in the middle of nowhere to somewhere else in the middle of nowhere, call them both somewhere else and then charge the airports for the privelege of having you is a stunning model that has served you well. We have, however, decided to go a bit more 'mainstream' and take on the big boys in their own backyard. In all honesty, I would be a bit happier if we had gone for a combination of your model and ours - but only time will tell if we go down that route.
Regarding the effect of fuel, I can only assume that Ryanair aircraft run on rainwater or something as you do not seem to think that your company is affected by the current fuel prices. Closer examination will show that we are all subject to the same pressures and even your beloved MOL is warning of the intolerable market conditions that will arise if the fuel price continues to soar.
What is absolutely clear is that despite your great sucess as a company, supposed best salaries in the business (I almost thought of applying to you myself recently), you cannot seem to get pilots to fly your aircraft. Sure, there is no shortage of wet-behind-the-ears young lads who will be FOs before getting a proper job with BA or Virgin - but getting captains seems to be a problem. You are going to find it a much bigger problem in times to come.
In the final analysis, Ryanair is the airline equivalent of a pig dressed in a posh suit. You can make it look as great as you want but in the end it is just another pig rolling in the dirt. The very guys you need to make your company successful have seen your mate MOL for what he is and have voted with their feet without ever darkening the door of an interview. The characteristics which got MOL where he is are the ones that will bring him down. His unpleasant, ill-mannered and objectionable demeanour have guaranteed that he will never recruit the very people he needs to keep the show on the road. When the wheel eventually does come off the pram, you will be the guy who, like Lord Haw-Haw before you, put your unbending faith in a complete loser.
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Originally Posted by CaptainProp
THIS is what I'm afraid they (SXF,ORY,DTM) will not do!! They are too happy about being "saved" to care about anything or anyone!!
More than 500 sectors/years. a lot of night stop, once a week minimum, lost.
This deal will make a pay loss for Paris secondary based .
Made my day!
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Originally Posted by Sheer rack
You're wrong. According most of the guys in ORY, this deal is unacceptable.
More than 500 sectors/years. a lot of night stop, once a week minimum, lost.
This deal will make a pay loss for Paris secondary based .
More than 500 sectors/years. a lot of night stop, once a week minimum, lost.
This deal will make a pay loss for Paris secondary based .
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"Roll out the barrel", etc.
Me too, Norman. Touché.
Shame, though. I'd cleared my schedule for a Monday interview. Oh well, if ever you change your mind.....
Don't be silly, Norman, we use fuel. Lots of it. Only difference is we've heard of hedging, something you lot evidently view as witchcraft. Oh, and I'm sure that breakdown chappie of yours will tell you how many of your 'loyal customers' we're continuing to poach because we take the view that fuel surcharges are, well, terribly un-British. Bit like the unfortunate Mr. Joyce, when it came to the crunch. Must admit I got a bit excited there for a moment when I saw you flopping the Joyce card on the table. Thought you meant James.....sigh.
All the best, Norman. You write beautifully.
Shame, though. I'd cleared my schedule for a Monday interview. Oh well, if ever you change your mind.....
Regarding the effect of fuel, I can only assume that Ryanair aircraft run on rainwater or something as you do not seem to think that your company is affected by the current fuel prices.
Joyce was taken back to London on a stretcher, where he stood trial for high treason. Nobody denied that he had made the radio broadcasts. The only issue was whether Britain had any jurisdiction. By now, Joyce had become a German citizen. Before that, he had been an American. But the prosecution argued that during the period that Joyce held a valid British passport, he had a reciprocal duty to Great Britain. It's a ridiculous argument today, and it was equally ridiculous then. But the British were determined to rid the world of Lord Haw-Haw, so their courts upheld the legal farce.
And that's how the Limeys hanged a Kraut for treason.
And that's how the Limeys hanged a Kraut for treason.