Delta Pilots Threaten Strike Over Pay Cuts (merged)
And so the very concentrated work of a non-automated, two-pilot crew working, sometimes, five-seven legs per (no rest) 12-hour duty period (soon the company can flex us up to 90+ hours..we signed this agreement), having worked sometimes an entire year with no sick calls = pilots who don't work much and sit at home? How does working 900+ block hours per year, most legs lasting only 30-55 minutes enroute time, equate to only 400? Can a professional pilot be so gullible when hearing vague rumours and reading the media's ignorant distortions, "hook, line and sinker"?
If an employer wants you to be MORE productive, then why do they practically refuse to guarantee you more than 4 hours minimum guarantee in the interim contract? It is THEIR job to make you productive-would you enjoy an extra day off, or even two...thousands of pilots use their days off, in order to commute home and back. Previously, the daily min. was 4:15. Many of hour days are only worth 4.5-5 hours actual block time...flying three or four very short, intense legs. Who created these trip patterns? Our ALPA MEC wants to be more productive on all narrow-body flying: is it productive to work MORE days for the same pay? If we could someday have a contract daily min. guarantee of 5 hours, the company would be forced to make us more productive-but they somehow can't deal with this, having commited themselves so long ago to the wasteful hub and spoke concept -so why are these ideas so difficult for many Pprune members to grasp? Trip and duty "rigs" were created long ago to give middle mgmt. incentive to use crews as productively as possible during each duty period, on each trip. But without at least a few hours minimum credit per day in the contract, why would mgmt "fly" us more than three hours per day? Yet their spokemen/spokesbroads harp about productivity to the media.
Some bitter Pprune contributors make absolutely no sense, whatsoever. Hypoxia is insidious, but so is deep-rooted bitterness and irrational resentment. My brother started his career quite late (mid-30s), flies a small King Air for a very modest salary (two kids to support, who he can rarely visit or be allowed to reach.... by phone...)and is 49; politics and the lack of the type-rating $o far prevent his chance to fly the company's first (Beech)jet. Regarding flying and his lack of opportunity to fly a more exotic or large aircraft, he is a gentleman and has shown no bitterness towards anyone.
Many on Pprune might be inhaling the same type of stuff ( "Amsterdam's finest"? ) from the same type of pipe that was found in a suitcase at Boise (BOI), Idaho years ago by airport security. The MARIJUANA ("weed") pipe allegedly belonged to one of a certain airline's former co-owners.
Histotoxic hypoxia can compound the self-deception and illusions regarding this industry.
If an employer wants you to be MORE productive, then why do they practically refuse to guarantee you more than 4 hours minimum guarantee in the interim contract? It is THEIR job to make you productive-would you enjoy an extra day off, or even two...thousands of pilots use their days off, in order to commute home and back. Previously, the daily min. was 4:15. Many of hour days are only worth 4.5-5 hours actual block time...flying three or four very short, intense legs. Who created these trip patterns? Our ALPA MEC wants to be more productive on all narrow-body flying: is it productive to work MORE days for the same pay? If we could someday have a contract daily min. guarantee of 5 hours, the company would be forced to make us more productive-but they somehow can't deal with this, having commited themselves so long ago to the wasteful hub and spoke concept -so why are these ideas so difficult for many Pprune members to grasp? Trip and duty "rigs" were created long ago to give middle mgmt. incentive to use crews as productively as possible during each duty period, on each trip. But without at least a few hours minimum credit per day in the contract, why would mgmt "fly" us more than three hours per day? Yet their spokemen/spokesbroads harp about productivity to the media.
Some bitter Pprune contributors make absolutely no sense, whatsoever. Hypoxia is insidious, but so is deep-rooted bitterness and irrational resentment. My brother started his career quite late (mid-30s), flies a small King Air for a very modest salary (two kids to support, who he can rarely visit or be allowed to reach.... by phone...)and is 49; politics and the lack of the type-rating $o far prevent his chance to fly the company's first (Beech)jet. Regarding flying and his lack of opportunity to fly a more exotic or large aircraft, he is a gentleman and has shown no bitterness towards anyone.
Many on Pprune might be inhaling the same type of stuff ( "Amsterdam's finest"? ) from the same type of pipe that was found in a suitcase at Boise (BOI), Idaho years ago by airport security. The MARIJUANA ("weed") pipe allegedly belonged to one of a certain airline's former co-owners.
Histotoxic hypoxia can compound the self-deception and illusions regarding this industry.
Last edited by Ignition Override; 27th Dec 2005 at 04:53.
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Rantsalot = not much fun flying a turboprop in the good ol' US of A is it, making the minimum wage. Sure must loathe those unionised jet jockeys you despise so much.
I very much doubt that there any HARD FACTS to back your assertions about low productivity from Delta pilots, and in the few cases that there are they derive from the well-known inefficiencies of hub and spoke operations, where trip integrations produce long duty days with relatively less flying than can be achieved by a point-to-point operation.
What do you fly then, who for, and for how long have you done so? I think we should be told!
I very much doubt that there any HARD FACTS to back your assertions about low productivity from Delta pilots, and in the few cases that there are they derive from the well-known inefficiencies of hub and spoke operations, where trip integrations produce long duty days with relatively less flying than can be achieved by a point-to-point operation.
What do you fly then, who for, and for how long have you done so? I think we should be told!
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Wrong again,
Props are for boats, I fly freash off the factory jet equipment and not for min wage thank you very much. As for loathing the unionised jet jockeys I think not. They may have had max pay and all rest of the union non sense a few years ago, but times have changed and its time for them to get back to work.
I do agree with you that the companys need to do some real work on their scheds and crew pairing as to improve block time per day ect....this will be a challange as old habits are hard to break.
This will also be a bitter pill for the pilots. More days work for less money ??? I think gone are the days of money for not working and having more pilots an the property than needed ect.....
ALPA has some real soul searching to do in order to be a viable union option in the future.
Please pass this on to the english dept for spell check and all the rest.
Cheers,
Props are for boats, I fly freash off the factory jet equipment and not for min wage thank you very much. As for loathing the unionised jet jockeys I think not. They may have had max pay and all rest of the union non sense a few years ago, but times have changed and its time for them to get back to work.
I do agree with you that the companys need to do some real work on their scheds and crew pairing as to improve block time per day ect....this will be a challange as old habits are hard to break.
This will also be a bitter pill for the pilots. More days work for less money ??? I think gone are the days of money for not working and having more pilots an the property than needed ect.....
ALPA has some real soul searching to do in order to be a viable union option in the future.
Please pass this on to the english dept for spell check and all the rest.
Cheers,
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now the airlines have ALPA by the short hair, and I hope they finish them off and rid the world of the gaint leach that ALPA has been for far too long...
Cheers
please pass on to the english dept for spell check ect.....
Cheers
please pass on to the english dept for spell check ect.....
Rantsalot:
Are you just plum out of Christmas spirit, shorts in a knot, or did ALPA steal your first born? I'm not thrilled by them (EAL 1989), but "giant leech" maybe just a little over the top.
GF
PS They did give us duty/trip rigs, keep management honest, sponsored many professionally important programs, do represent the members in safety investigations, etc. Not a great bargainer who looks at the long-term, but needed.
Are you just plum out of Christmas spirit, shorts in a knot, or did ALPA steal your first born? I'm not thrilled by them (EAL 1989), but "giant leech" maybe just a little over the top.
GF
PS They did give us duty/trip rigs, keep management honest, sponsored many professionally important programs, do represent the members in safety investigations, etc. Not a great bargainer who looks at the long-term, but needed.
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Rantsy, can you answer these?
When a passenger buys an airline ticket, just how much of the cost goes to pilots' pay?
And, do you consider this excessive, when compared, for instance, to tips paid to waiters in a restaurant.
When a passenger buys an airline ticket, just how much of the cost goes to pilots' pay?
And, do you consider this excessive, when compared, for instance, to tips paid to waiters in a restaurant.
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Most airlines are banking on the premise that pilots don't have the bottle to go on strike.
If leased aeroplanes are left on expensive parking lots your management will be getting a severe beating from the big shareholders.
You're in a very strong position just so long as the pilots can agree on how to act.
It is certainly true that the rest of the uk airline industry is watching.
Best of luck.
If leased aeroplanes are left on expensive parking lots your management will be getting a severe beating from the big shareholders.
You're in a very strong position just so long as the pilots can agree on how to act.
It is certainly true that the rest of the uk airline industry is watching.
Best of luck.
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I submit that it is YOU that is the LEECH, 'rants'.
YOU are the one enjoying the higher standard of labor conditions that ALPA and other unions have brought to OUR profession...while at the same time, ceaselessly bashing said union for brownie points from your boss. That makes YOU the leech.
Further, I don't believe that you're a professional pilot. You talk a fat line, but you're more like a mgt/boss's son type. If you truly cared about the long term viability of being a professional pilot you'd support the Delta boys all the way- more likely, this is something fun and glamorous for you to do until your trust fund kicks in.
Sure, unions are hardly perfect- but try working for long at an outfit without one. 'The only thing worse than a union is no union'. You'll learn this, with some experience.
The first time you're pressured with being fired, into flying sick, fatigued or a broken plane you'll be crying for a union rep to save your job...unless of course, you fly sick/fatigued/broken airplanes, or you're rich and don't care if you're canned, in which case you aren't worth a fart in the wind as a pilot anyway.
TT
YOU are the one enjoying the higher standard of labor conditions that ALPA and other unions have brought to OUR profession...while at the same time, ceaselessly bashing said union for brownie points from your boss. That makes YOU the leech.
Further, I don't believe that you're a professional pilot. You talk a fat line, but you're more like a mgt/boss's son type. If you truly cared about the long term viability of being a professional pilot you'd support the Delta boys all the way- more likely, this is something fun and glamorous for you to do until your trust fund kicks in.
Sure, unions are hardly perfect- but try working for long at an outfit without one. 'The only thing worse than a union is no union'. You'll learn this, with some experience.
The first time you're pressured with being fired, into flying sick, fatigued or a broken plane you'll be crying for a union rep to save your job...unless of course, you fly sick/fatigued/broken airplanes, or you're rich and don't care if you're canned, in which case you aren't worth a fart in the wind as a pilot anyway.
TT
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I voted no on Delta's TA..... My concern is that last year we took a 32.5% pay cut, now 14% and I fully expect that in 2-3 months to take an additional paycut and lose several of our quality of life workrules. I can't say I blame management. I too would keep coming back for more until I thought I hit the point that the pilots would give no more. Obviously we're not there yet (I am!).
This past TA was my line in the sand.... Now Delta pilots are among the lowest paid in the U.S. industry. What a difference a few years will make.
When I showed up to indoc at Delta, we were told, "welcome to the last job you'll ever have". Well now I'm looking for the next last job I'll ever have!!!!
Frats,
Tomcat
This past TA was my line in the sand.... Now Delta pilots are among the lowest paid in the U.S. industry. What a difference a few years will make.
When I showed up to indoc at Delta, we were told, "welcome to the last job you'll ever have". Well now I'm looking for the next last job I'll ever have!!!!
Frats,
Tomcat
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One more time for the hard of hearing. ALPA pilots make too much money and do not work enough.......The money for nothing days are over and now you must pay the piper for all the years of lazyness and greed. Just think about the good old days when you could sit home and get paid for a full days work. Well those days are over and you are now living the big correction. You will continue to loose money and work harder for it until you produce what you are worth.
I can hear it now its not our fault its managments, the rampers ect.... Well the world is not seeing it your way. Tell that to your kids as you are putting them in public school, selling the boat and downsizing the house. I am sure you will not tell them that it was the greedy pilots that raped the company and laughed about how the new contract was like stealing. I am sure you guys will blame it on anybody but the pilots.
And for PS.. I do not have a trust fund waiting nor am I trying to impress a boss. I fly the line and work for my salary. I fly near the faa max every year and live a great well paid life style. until you guys start flying more than 300 or 400 hours a year, you are going to see your pay getting cut until it is in line with what you produce.
What has me on a rant is what ALPA and lazy pilots have done to the profession and the industry. You guys and ALPA should be ashamed of yourselves but I am sure you are not as the ALPA koolaid flows thru your veins. Its not our fault repeated over and over seems to hide the facts from 99% of the ALPA boys.
Now pardon me while I find a barf bag as I am about to unload my dinner just thinking abut ALPA and the thousands of lazy pilots crying poor mouth and pointing the finger at every one else.
Rant off for now but I am not done with you guys yet
please pass on to the english dept for spell and grammer check...gracias
I can hear it now its not our fault its managments, the rampers ect.... Well the world is not seeing it your way. Tell that to your kids as you are putting them in public school, selling the boat and downsizing the house. I am sure you will not tell them that it was the greedy pilots that raped the company and laughed about how the new contract was like stealing. I am sure you guys will blame it on anybody but the pilots.
And for PS.. I do not have a trust fund waiting nor am I trying to impress a boss. I fly the line and work for my salary. I fly near the faa max every year and live a great well paid life style. until you guys start flying more than 300 or 400 hours a year, you are going to see your pay getting cut until it is in line with what you produce.
What has me on a rant is what ALPA and lazy pilots have done to the profession and the industry. You guys and ALPA should be ashamed of yourselves but I am sure you are not as the ALPA koolaid flows thru your veins. Its not our fault repeated over and over seems to hide the facts from 99% of the ALPA boys.
Now pardon me while I find a barf bag as I am about to unload my dinner just thinking abut ALPA and the thousands of lazy pilots crying poor mouth and pointing the finger at every one else.
Rant off for now but I am not done with you guys yet
please pass on to the english dept for spell and grammer check...gracias
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Re: Delta Pilots Threaten Strike Over Pay Cuts (merged)
Rants you need to get some fresh air. Your posts lack the slightest objectivity and reflect nothing more than an obsession with ALPA. I think anyone reading your stuff would do well to ignore it as the ravings of someone with a serious problem - you should get it sorted out mate, before you do yourself some harm tapping away at that keyboard of yours.
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Re: Delta Pilots Threaten Strike Over Pay Cuts (merged)
Rants:
1. Define "lazy pilot".
2. Define "too much money".
3. Show me a printed schedule that represents 80% of any line pilot group that flies 300 to 400 hours per year.
4. What should a 12 year captain make per hour?
a. B747
b. B767
c. B757
d. B737
e. A340
f. A330
g. A319/320
h. Any other aircraft you may want to include.
5. How many hours should a line pilot expect to fly every day he works?
6. Should a pilot get paid for dead heading? If so how much?
7. Should any duty time, which is not included in the block time, be paid for?
8. What aircraft and position do you fly?
9. How many years with your current employer?
10. how many block hours do you fly in a month (12 month average)
11. how many days off do you get in a month (12 month average). Don't include any layovers.
Except for question 1 and 2 these are not essay questions. Just a simple number or yes/no answers, if you can do that.
1. Define "lazy pilot".
2. Define "too much money".
3. Show me a printed schedule that represents 80% of any line pilot group that flies 300 to 400 hours per year.
4. What should a 12 year captain make per hour?
a. B747
b. B767
c. B757
d. B737
e. A340
f. A330
g. A319/320
h. Any other aircraft you may want to include.
5. How many hours should a line pilot expect to fly every day he works?
6. Should a pilot get paid for dead heading? If so how much?
7. Should any duty time, which is not included in the block time, be paid for?
8. What aircraft and position do you fly?
9. How many years with your current employer?
10. how many block hours do you fly in a month (12 month average)
11. how many days off do you get in a month (12 month average). Don't include any layovers.
Except for question 1 and 2 these are not essay questions. Just a simple number or yes/no answers, if you can do that.
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Re: Delta Pilots Threaten Strike Over Pay Cuts (merged)
Rants - you are truly a piece of work.
I just added up my flight time for the year - 750 block (actual) hours. With time off for vacation and training I averaged over 77 hours hard time each full month I fly. Now that is low, since I've been on the 757 for the past 2 years I've endured back to back flip flop trips (all night flight to east coast, 24 hour layover, early morning departure back to west coast) that pay 15.5 hours for 10 to 11 hours of flying. 3 weeks in a row of that gives 90 hours pay for 60 hours of flying. Not bad, you say? Try doing 5 circadian changes in a week and see how you feel after 3 weeks of this. Recover for a week and do it all over again. Or I do 4 weeks of 4 day trips, east coast, west coast, east coast, 10 to 12 hour duty days, 23 hours flying. Productive but long days with 12 hour layovers doesn't give you much recovery time. We have a minimum of 5:15 pay per day and scheduling does their best to hit or beat that mark. That is good, we want to work productively, the more you work per day the more days off you get. But to say ALPA pilots are lazy and unproductive is to deny reality. Any lack of productivity is directly tied to poor scheduling practices by management or marketing restrictions that put one flight a day into markets that result in 32 hour layovers. Can't blame those lazy ALPA pilots for that.
Fatigue and poor scheduling practices go hand in hand. Regional airlines, with their practice of scheduling "stand up" overnights of less than 7 hours rest between late night arrivals and 6 am departures are contributing to a culture of management pilot pushing that will result in more system errors and will lead to more accidents. ALPA, for all of Rant's ravings, has contributed more to fighting poor scheduling practices and engendered sound scientific fatigue management than any other group out there except NASA. The fight against unsound practices by managent can only come from a union. ALPA, for all its's warts, is the largest and most experienced pilot union in the world. It has more resources than any other pilot group. All pilots, not just ALPA pilots, benefit from the work ALPA has put into the piloting profession.
Rants, if you fly corporate jets and are flying the max then you are most likely a fractional pilot. You must like working for half the wages of a comparable corporate pilot. If you are flying large jets then you may be a JetBlue pilot or Air Tran pilot. In either case you benefit by the wage standards and workrules that were set by ALPA carriers that have come before you. Don't be too smug in your beliefs until you have been around a while. These things go in cycles. Once this round of concessions is over then the natural cycle will progress and the big airlines will go back to making billion dollar profits. We will be there when that happens and we will recover our wages.
I just added up my flight time for the year - 750 block (actual) hours. With time off for vacation and training I averaged over 77 hours hard time each full month I fly. Now that is low, since I've been on the 757 for the past 2 years I've endured back to back flip flop trips (all night flight to east coast, 24 hour layover, early morning departure back to west coast) that pay 15.5 hours for 10 to 11 hours of flying. 3 weeks in a row of that gives 90 hours pay for 60 hours of flying. Not bad, you say? Try doing 5 circadian changes in a week and see how you feel after 3 weeks of this. Recover for a week and do it all over again. Or I do 4 weeks of 4 day trips, east coast, west coast, east coast, 10 to 12 hour duty days, 23 hours flying. Productive but long days with 12 hour layovers doesn't give you much recovery time. We have a minimum of 5:15 pay per day and scheduling does their best to hit or beat that mark. That is good, we want to work productively, the more you work per day the more days off you get. But to say ALPA pilots are lazy and unproductive is to deny reality. Any lack of productivity is directly tied to poor scheduling practices by management or marketing restrictions that put one flight a day into markets that result in 32 hour layovers. Can't blame those lazy ALPA pilots for that.
Fatigue and poor scheduling practices go hand in hand. Regional airlines, with their practice of scheduling "stand up" overnights of less than 7 hours rest between late night arrivals and 6 am departures are contributing to a culture of management pilot pushing that will result in more system errors and will lead to more accidents. ALPA, for all of Rant's ravings, has contributed more to fighting poor scheduling practices and engendered sound scientific fatigue management than any other group out there except NASA. The fight against unsound practices by managent can only come from a union. ALPA, for all its's warts, is the largest and most experienced pilot union in the world. It has more resources than any other pilot group. All pilots, not just ALPA pilots, benefit from the work ALPA has put into the piloting profession.
Rants, if you fly corporate jets and are flying the max then you are most likely a fractional pilot. You must like working for half the wages of a comparable corporate pilot. If you are flying large jets then you may be a JetBlue pilot or Air Tran pilot. In either case you benefit by the wage standards and workrules that were set by ALPA carriers that have come before you. Don't be too smug in your beliefs until you have been around a while. These things go in cycles. Once this round of concessions is over then the natural cycle will progress and the big airlines will go back to making billion dollar profits. We will be there when that happens and we will recover our wages.
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Re: Delta Pilots Threaten Strike Over Pay Cuts (merged)
<<Once this round of concessions is over then the natural cycle will progress and the big airlines will go back to making billion dollar profits. We will be there when that happens and we will recover our wages.>>
As there has been a large change in the way most large airlines accumulate/acquire adequate earnings, both of these conditions are quite likely never to happen, in your lifetime.
IOW...dream on.
As there has been a large change in the way most large airlines accumulate/acquire adequate earnings, both of these conditions are quite likely never to happen, in your lifetime.
IOW...dream on.
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Re: Delta Pilots Threaten Strike Over Pay Cuts (merged)
And now, da daa, yes its 411a who spends his days in retirement slagging-off working pilots and rubbing his hands with glee at the slightest sign of pilot wage reductions. Why? Why is this so important to you 411a? Do you, like our new chief exec W@llie W@lsh hate your old career, (and go on record as saying so, often!), or is it dreams of a start - up and the chance to coin it big style by employing people at garbage truck wages? My guess is both.
Air travel continues to grow at a rate exceeding trend economic growth around the world. Employers will be competing in a market place where ex-military pilots are far fewer in numbers and, believe it or not, the career of being an airline pilot will have to be seen to be attractive in terms of both remuneration and lifestyle in order to attract applicants of a calibre insurers are willing to underwrite.
411a and Rants are bitter men driven by prejudices of obscure origin who revel in the misfortunes of others. Their posts should be seen through that filter.
Air travel continues to grow at a rate exceeding trend economic growth around the world. Employers will be competing in a market place where ex-military pilots are far fewer in numbers and, believe it or not, the career of being an airline pilot will have to be seen to be attractive in terms of both remuneration and lifestyle in order to attract applicants of a calibre insurers are willing to underwrite.
411a and Rants are bitter men driven by prejudices of obscure origin who revel in the misfortunes of others. Their posts should be seen through that filter.
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Re: Delta Pilots Threaten Strike Over Pay Cuts (merged)
<<And now, da daa, yes its 411a who spends his days in retirement slagging-off working pilots and rubbing his hands with glee at the slightest sign of pilot wage reductions.>>
Retirement you say, ShortfinalFred, ah....you are just slightly misinformed.
Still flying, old boy, and yes, still making the rather big bucks.
And, not at an ALPA represented carrier, either....thankfully.
The ALPA boys have a slight problem.
The airline industry is a changin', but they ain't.
Will they wake up someday?
The short answer is, not very likely.
Retirement you say, ShortfinalFred, ah....you are just slightly misinformed.
Still flying, old boy, and yes, still making the rather big bucks.
And, not at an ALPA represented carrier, either....thankfully.
The ALPA boys have a slight problem.
The airline industry is a changin', but they ain't.
Will they wake up someday?
The short answer is, not very likely.
Buttonpusher
Re: Delta Pilots Threaten Strike Over Pay Cuts (merged)
Rantsalot,
This lazy ALPA pilot flew 733 hours last year, this is not counting the 2 months I was in upgrade school, so yes I'm pretty underworked. I averaged 12-15 days off a month, flying international, so yes I've got lots of time off to recover from my trips. As with cactusbusdrvr, I am subject to the schedules and conditions written by the airline, so yes I guess I laugh with glee about how I have raped the company, not like a certain individual named Frank ( and others)who really raped the company. Besides being a lazy ALPA pilot has afforded me SO much time off, with SO much pay, I can afford to volunteer on two commitees (ProStan and Pilot Assistance) in order to help my fellow lazy pilots. You seem to forget the are several other arms to ALPA. I personally am not adept at being politcal to represent pilots, but others have the talent to do that kind of work. The only thing worse than having a union to represent you...is not to have one at all.
This lazy ALPA pilot flew 733 hours last year, this is not counting the 2 months I was in upgrade school, so yes I'm pretty underworked. I averaged 12-15 days off a month, flying international, so yes I've got lots of time off to recover from my trips. As with cactusbusdrvr, I am subject to the schedules and conditions written by the airline, so yes I guess I laugh with glee about how I have raped the company, not like a certain individual named Frank ( and others)who really raped the company. Besides being a lazy ALPA pilot has afforded me SO much time off, with SO much pay, I can afford to volunteer on two commitees (ProStan and Pilot Assistance) in order to help my fellow lazy pilots. You seem to forget the are several other arms to ALPA. I personally am not adept at being politcal to represent pilots, but others have the talent to do that kind of work. The only thing worse than having a union to represent you...is not to have one at all.
Re: Delta Pilots Threaten Strike Over Pay Cuts (merged)
Ah - 411a the bete noire of the pprune world. The difference between 411a and rantsalot is 411a likes to provoke but has a bad habit of hitting it on the head.
There is no way <<Once this round of concessions is over then the natural cycle will progress and the big airlines will go back to making billion dollar profits. We will be there when that happens and we will recover our wages.>> is going to happen. Yea, you might get some back but not all of it and you will loose every bit of it at the first whiff of a downturn.
Pilots need to wake up. The old days of protective working agreements and cushy terms are dead. Not just for pilots but for everybody. The good old days depended on being a regulated industry with no competiotion and no real need to make money.
Read what the WTO is really about - it is the free movement of labor , goods and services.Ross Perots great sucking sound is not blue collar jobs to Mexico anymore but white collar jobs to Mumbai. Stop talking to other pilots and find out what is happening to all the other safe jobs that used to be out there.
Airlines are moving from the worlds most regulated and protected industry to another transferable global commodity provider. The customers will rule.
American travelers are not going to pay more to protect US flight crew job. If Jet airways offers a better fare from NYC to LAX they are going to get the traffic.
The only protection a pilot, or any airline employee can get is working for a consistently profitable company. No regualr profits no big dough. The days of strangling the goose for the last golden egg are over.
Pilots can still make good cash but they are going to have to change the way they work. Senority serves a lot of good purposes but it also ties the pilots to an employer that just kills any job mobility and that is going to be the one thing any skilled employee is going to need in the future.
I really have no idea if ALPA gets this it doesn't matter as they do not control the supply of pilots and you can kiss cabotage and all that good stuff good bye.
Sorry guys - welcome to the global economy, you are not immune.
There is no way <<Once this round of concessions is over then the natural cycle will progress and the big airlines will go back to making billion dollar profits. We will be there when that happens and we will recover our wages.>> is going to happen. Yea, you might get some back but not all of it and you will loose every bit of it at the first whiff of a downturn.
Pilots need to wake up. The old days of protective working agreements and cushy terms are dead. Not just for pilots but for everybody. The good old days depended on being a regulated industry with no competiotion and no real need to make money.
Read what the WTO is really about - it is the free movement of labor , goods and services.Ross Perots great sucking sound is not blue collar jobs to Mexico anymore but white collar jobs to Mumbai. Stop talking to other pilots and find out what is happening to all the other safe jobs that used to be out there.
Airlines are moving from the worlds most regulated and protected industry to another transferable global commodity provider. The customers will rule.
American travelers are not going to pay more to protect US flight crew job. If Jet airways offers a better fare from NYC to LAX they are going to get the traffic.
The only protection a pilot, or any airline employee can get is working for a consistently profitable company. No regualr profits no big dough. The days of strangling the goose for the last golden egg are over.
Pilots can still make good cash but they are going to have to change the way they work. Senority serves a lot of good purposes but it also ties the pilots to an employer that just kills any job mobility and that is going to be the one thing any skilled employee is going to need in the future.
I really have no idea if ALPA gets this it doesn't matter as they do not control the supply of pilots and you can kiss cabotage and all that good stuff good bye.
Sorry guys - welcome to the global economy, you are not immune.
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Re: Delta Pilots Threaten Strike Over Pay Cuts (merged)
OK 411a et al, explain away Southwest then. A unionized company that makes consistent profits and pays the going rate to its pilots, or am I missing something here?
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Re: Delta Pilots Threaten Strike Over Pay Cuts (merged)
411A, judging from the quality of your contributions it is abundantly clear that you are vastly over-paid and lucky to have a job. Also, you must surely agree that "rather big bucks" cannot be to the advantage of your employer. I'm sure that some ALPA pilot out there will be willing to take your job for less money. Are you thinking of retiring soon?