Pilots leaving Easy
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Pilots leaving Easy
net number of pilots leaving easy: 6-8 per month
(net number: new entrants minus leaving)
additional aircraft per month: 2-4
Combined this adds up to a increase in pilot shortage by ~30 per month!
When will easy have to cancel flights, because of staff shortage? Oh, sorry! That already happend...
Will the current negotiations bring an improvement?
(net number: new entrants minus leaving)
additional aircraft per month: 2-4
Combined this adds up to a increase in pilot shortage by ~30 per month!
When will easy have to cancel flights, because of staff shortage? Oh, sorry! That already happend...
Will the current negotiations bring an improvement?
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I shouldnt imagine so, most first officers I know are seriously considering leaving. I think it will take a huge change to T + Cs to make it an airline that people could see themselves working their whole career for.
I will even go so far as to say that it would take a complete change in management mentallity to make me stay. I dont need a payrise, I just want to be treated like a human being ( I am working my third christmas on the trot this year !!!!) and that seems to be impossible for this company. Could be an amazing airline to work but they seem to not want to be one.
I will even go so far as to say that it would take a complete change in management mentallity to make me stay. I dont need a payrise, I just want to be treated like a human being ( I am working my third christmas on the trot this year !!!!) and that seems to be impossible for this company. Could be an amazing airline to work but they seem to not want to be one.
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I doubt that EZY will have to cancel flights as most people leaving are SF/Oīs and there is no shortage of potential TRSS F/Oīs.
The reduced flying over the winter will provide enough time to train F/Oīs for the next onslaught: SUMMER 2006!
I hope to have escaped this orange brainwashed outfit by then.
Besides that, a quick fix is already in place by forcing captains to fly in the right hand seat. (helluva expensive F/O for a "low cost airline" but logic thinking has never been a strong point in the PortaCabin Palace...
)
Things will get hairy IMO when captains start to leave and EZY will not have enough 3500-4500 hour F/Oīs available to upgrade. Thatīs when the proverbial sh!t will hit the fan.
p.s. JJ 737, I do want a payrise (hell! they can afford it!!) and I do want to be treated as a human being. (doesnīt cost much) Itīs the lack of willpower of the employees to make it a better outfit which gives management the carte blanche to screw us over!
The reduced flying over the winter will provide enough time to train F/Oīs for the next onslaught: SUMMER 2006!
I hope to have escaped this orange brainwashed outfit by then.
Besides that, a quick fix is already in place by forcing captains to fly in the right hand seat. (helluva expensive F/O for a "low cost airline" but logic thinking has never been a strong point in the PortaCabin Palace...
) Things will get hairy IMO when captains start to leave and EZY will not have enough 3500-4500 hour F/Oīs available to upgrade. Thatīs when the proverbial sh!t will hit the fan.
p.s. JJ 737, I do want a payrise (hell! they can afford it!!) and I do want to be treated as a human being. (doesnīt cost much) Itīs the lack of willpower of the employees to make it a better outfit which gives management the carte blanche to screw us over!
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Captains will start to leave easy but it will sadly only be a trickle as it is not as "easy" to find a direct entry command these days. there will be the odd few that are prepared or are indeed young enough to accept a move to the right hand seat in order to move on.
F/o's leaving will be playing onto the hands of management as they will be replaced by TRSS guys that are waiting to be taken on. Sorry to the guys that have chosen this route but TRSS is the cancer of the aviation industry and should be stamped out at all costs!
No other proffesion pays so much in order to get what is essentially an average job so why do pilots insist on doing this!
F/o's leaving will be playing onto the hands of management as they will be replaced by TRSS guys that are waiting to be taken on. Sorry to the guys that have chosen this route but TRSS is the cancer of the aviation industry and should be stamped out at all costs!
No other proffesion pays so much in order to get what is essentially an average job so why do pilots insist on doing this!
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In order to 'stamp out' TRSS and the like it would require a concerted and very well organised 'NO' from each and every young(ish) person out there seeking employment with an airline.
The airlines would have absolutely no choice but to change their policy.
The same principle applies to recruitment charges like simulator assessments etc.
It would be genuinely marvellous if it were to happen and go some way to restoring this industry to what it once was, but who's gonna organise it?
The airlines would have absolutely no choice but to change their policy.
The same principle applies to recruitment charges like simulator assessments etc.
It would be genuinely marvellous if it were to happen and go some way to restoring this industry to what it once was, but who's gonna organise it?
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TRSS is here to stay IMHO. That is not to say I like it - market forces are such that it will be very difficult to get rid of it.
I would also like to add my voice to that of others - I do want a payrise. I also want a serious attack on other issues such as pension contributions and private medical care (ie the lack of them!). I personally like working for easyJet but 'the ship is being spoiled for a hape'worth of tar'. This will always be a place where people work hard and there is no way round that. The problems at easyJet are well documented and the sad thing is they are about to lose scores of pilots when they did not have to. A bit of sensible management could go a huge way to dealing with the issues.
I would also like to add my voice to that of others - I do want a payrise. I also want a serious attack on other issues such as pension contributions and private medical care (ie the lack of them!). I personally like working for easyJet but 'the ship is being spoiled for a hape'worth of tar'. This will always be a place where people work hard and there is no way round that. The problems at easyJet are well documented and the sad thing is they are about to lose scores of pilots when they did not have to. A bit of sensible management could go a huge way to dealing with the issues.
Flaps One
"but who's gonna organise it?" - That is your problem - if the current pilots can't do it no one else will. Why leave it to the people at the bottom of the pile to protect your income? The current pilots have the leverage with employers - not the unemployed wannabes.
20driver
"but who's gonna organise it?" - That is your problem - if the current pilots can't do it no one else will. Why leave it to the people at the bottom of the pile to protect your income? The current pilots have the leverage with employers - not the unemployed wannabes.
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You misunderstand me 20driver. There's nothing that can be done from within.
For guys already working here it's too late to do anything. They have already signed binding contracts for loans/bonds etc.
The only people who can influence what happens from now on are the guys who are yet to join.
If no-one (external orgnisation?) accepts a TRSS deal (or similar with other operators) companies will be forced to re-think their recruitment policies.
For guys already working here it's too late to do anything. They have already signed binding contracts for loans/bonds etc.
The only people who can influence what happens from now on are the guys who are yet to join.
If no-one (external orgnisation?) accepts a TRSS deal (or similar with other operators) companies will be forced to re-think their recruitment policies.
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Well, I don't understand why people should want to leave!
We have an industry leading roster pattern that the vast vast majority of pilots love and voted for. We are all far less tired than we have ever been under the previous unsafe roster, and we have even more time off. Plus we got an unbelievable pay rise at the last negotiation. All the reps involved were quite rightly applauded by all the pilots for securing us such a fantastic working enviroment.
That is the case isn't it?
We have an industry leading roster pattern that the vast vast majority of pilots love and voted for. We are all far less tired than we have ever been under the previous unsafe roster, and we have even more time off. Plus we got an unbelievable pay rise at the last negotiation. All the reps involved were quite rightly applauded by all the pilots for securing us such a fantastic working enviroment.
That is the case isn't it?
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Flaps One
As Iīve told you before, TRSS is there because the CC allows it.
Why is there no TRSS with Virgin Atlantic or BA?
Not because of a "very well organised 'NO' from each and every young(ish) person out there seeking employment with an airline," as many BA and Virgin new recruits come from EZY and Ryanair!
Itīs naive to believe that those people joining BA or VA wouldnīt pay for (yet another) type on a 777 or A340 if that would land them a job with a well established career airline, something EZY is NOT!
BA or VA donīt have a TRSS scheme because the CC wonīt allow it. Simple as that.
Your failure to believe that change is possible from within might explain the current discontent within EZY...
BTW, slightly off topic, what exactly is going on with the T&Cīs of MXP? Apart from a vague thread about the bidding list on the BALPA site there is NO info!
Another reason for EZY pilots to make a preemptive move and leave?
As Iīve told you before, TRSS is there because the CC allows it.
Why is there no TRSS with Virgin Atlantic or BA?
Not because of a "very well organised 'NO' from each and every young(ish) person out there seeking employment with an airline," as many BA and Virgin new recruits come from EZY and Ryanair!
Itīs naive to believe that those people joining BA or VA wouldnīt pay for (yet another) type on a 777 or A340 if that would land them a job with a well established career airline, something EZY is NOT!
BA or VA donīt have a TRSS scheme because the CC wonīt allow it. Simple as that.
Your failure to believe that change is possible from within might explain the current discontent within EZY...
BTW, slightly off topic, what exactly is going on with the T&Cīs of MXP? Apart from a vague thread about the bidding list on the BALPA site there is NO info!
Another reason for EZY pilots to make a preemptive move and leave?
Yeah yeah, but EZY still offers a realistic Ģ80k a year Boeing/Bus command by the age of 30 for a lot of people and in places not connected with Heathrow or Gatwick.
If you want Virgin Longhaul or BA queing so much then resign and go there.
The numbers leaving EZY are tiny in relation to the size of the operation so either join BALPA, resign, or stop whining.
Cheers
WWW
ps There IS NO perfect job - that's just a myth put about by management.
If you want Virgin Longhaul or BA queing so much then resign and go there.
The numbers leaving EZY are tiny in relation to the size of the operation so either join BALPA, resign, or stop whining.
Cheers
WWW
ps There IS NO perfect job - that's just a myth put about by management.
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Smells like
Smells like Ryanair...
Looks like the industry is finally buckling under the realities of properly supporting staff and justifying the investment it takes to get here...
people will have the hard realities of long waiting lists till command in the legacy carriers or face uncertain T&Cs with command before youre 30 hit them at a very early stage in their game (within a year of joining the industry), and it wont bear well for those aspiring hopefulls, who will start thinking twice...
the industry on a whole is going to have to seriously reconsider its direction with staff management, and the first guys to take the blow will be the low cost carriers...
may you live in interesting times...
Looks like the industry is finally buckling under the realities of properly supporting staff and justifying the investment it takes to get here...
people will have the hard realities of long waiting lists till command in the legacy carriers or face uncertain T&Cs with command before youre 30 hit them at a very early stage in their game (within a year of joining the industry), and it wont bear well for those aspiring hopefulls, who will start thinking twice...
the industry on a whole is going to have to seriously reconsider its direction with staff management, and the first guys to take the blow will be the low cost carriers...
may you live in interesting times...
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WWW.
You must be management, or at least have the potential. I am a Captain on the Bus and will be handing in my notice next month. "If you don't like it then leave" ..... Bye.
You must be management, or at least have the potential. I am a Captain on the Bus and will be handing in my notice next month. "If you don't like it then leave" ..... Bye.
Plumbum Pendular
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Wee Weasley Welshman
I am afraid that you are very naive. Just because it is the airline that you work for, doesn't mean that you have to be so defensive of it.
These quick commands are only around becuase of the current rapid expansion.
It will not last, expansion will slow right down, then you will be looking at 10 years to command.
Voting with your feet is not always an option because of the seniority system in other airlines.
The best way is to not shut up but to whinge to the management, but constructively, maybe threaten to park the aeroplanes, then things might get done.
I am afraid that you are very naive. Just because it is the airline that you work for, doesn't mean that you have to be so defensive of it.
These quick commands are only around becuase of the current rapid expansion.
It will not last, expansion will slow right down, then you will be looking at 10 years to command.
Voting with your feet is not always an option because of the seniority system in other airlines.
The best way is to not shut up but to whinge to the management, but constructively, maybe threaten to park the aeroplanes, then things might get done.
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Somewhat 'off thread' but......
The TRSS scheme itself has nothing to do with Balpa. How on earth could it be stopped by the CC?
Balpa never introduced the scheme.
Balpa never endorsed the scheme.
It's there because the company introduced it a few years ago and people signed up and paid for it.
As long as guys joining are prepared to sign up to such a scheme, and it remains legal, without 100% backing from 100% of the pilot workforce, options to counter it are someone less than extremely limited.
The CC does try and help 'police' the scheme (as it has done recently with all the hype about the AHC payment element) and all that data has been made available to Bapa members.
Look very carefully at BA and Virgin and you will see more than 90% of their pilots are members of Balpa. That's exatly how you get control over such issues. It's an old argument but it's true.
Furthermore, as far as I know, there aren't any 'special lists' for MXP, neither are there any 'special terms and conditions' which is why there is no debate or comment. The only thing that has been announced I believe is that there will be some sort of 'bidding window' for transfer applicants - that's it.
I would strongly suggest that if you have any fact about management plans to introduce degraded Ts and Cs at MXP - or any other base for that matter- you make those facts known to the CC ASAP rather just posting a vague runour on PPrune.
If such rumours turn out to be true (and I hope they are not!) then the CC will, without doubt, respond appropriately but they cannot act on the basis of a rumour.
The TRSS scheme itself has nothing to do with Balpa. How on earth could it be stopped by the CC?
Balpa never introduced the scheme.
Balpa never endorsed the scheme.
It's there because the company introduced it a few years ago and people signed up and paid for it.
As long as guys joining are prepared to sign up to such a scheme, and it remains legal, without 100% backing from 100% of the pilot workforce, options to counter it are someone less than extremely limited.
The CC does try and help 'police' the scheme (as it has done recently with all the hype about the AHC payment element) and all that data has been made available to Bapa members.
Look very carefully at BA and Virgin and you will see more than 90% of their pilots are members of Balpa. That's exatly how you get control over such issues. It's an old argument but it's true.
Furthermore, as far as I know, there aren't any 'special lists' for MXP, neither are there any 'special terms and conditions' which is why there is no debate or comment. The only thing that has been announced I believe is that there will be some sort of 'bidding window' for transfer applicants - that's it.
I would strongly suggest that if you have any fact about management plans to introduce degraded Ts and Cs at MXP - or any other base for that matter- you make those facts known to the CC ASAP rather just posting a vague runour on PPrune.
If such rumours turn out to be true (and I hope they are not!) then the CC will, without doubt, respond appropriately but they cannot act on the basis of a rumour.
Not management, not naive. Just saying what I see.
Good luck to all that join and all that leave. More BALPA members I believe is the only way forward. The Cons and the Pros are there for all to see and indeed to base their judgements on.
Tell me which other airlines can offer you, within 5 years, an Ģ80k+ job in Scotland, South West, North East, Midlands, Liverpool (don't know how to regionalise that), Northern Ireland or indeed Paris, Germany or Milan on a modern type?
I wish to be no advocate. Yet the reality is plain to see.
Be it recruits from lesser 737/Bus operators, TRSS cadets or any ailing regional airline, EZY faces no shortfall in eager recruits.
Much to my lament. Yet tales of imminent recruitment disaster abound.
I think unfounded. Unfortunately.
Cheers
WWW
Good luck to all that join and all that leave. More BALPA members I believe is the only way forward. The Cons and the Pros are there for all to see and indeed to base their judgements on.
Tell me which other airlines can offer you, within 5 years, an Ģ80k+ job in Scotland, South West, North East, Midlands, Liverpool (don't know how to regionalise that), Northern Ireland or indeed Paris, Germany or Milan on a modern type?
I wish to be no advocate. Yet the reality is plain to see.
Be it recruits from lesser 737/Bus operators, TRSS cadets or any ailing regional airline, EZY faces no shortfall in eager recruits.
Much to my lament. Yet tales of imminent recruitment disaster abound.
I think unfounded. Unfortunately.
Cheers
WWW
+10k sector +10% loyalty. I don't wish to enter into a protracted argument - you might persuade me if nothing else. But the deal ain't terrible and recruitment nor retention is a problem. Hope it becomes so but that's a different matter to posting yet another easy-exodus thread. Heard it before - twice.
Cheers
WWW
Cheers
WWW