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Person Of Interest
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Keystone Heights, Florida
Age: 68
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Aga...Bis...
You are right and I am arguing apples and oranges...
In the USA this is not a big issue as it it addressed very well in most ALPA contracts...
However, I see your point very clearly now...2 crew a/c in Europe must have both pilots type rated, while in the US many F/O's flying B-747's and A-300's don't even hold an ATPL, nor are they required to...
It is a tough situation for you folks, but I would be very careful at this point, because as has been well discussed here on PPrune, a contract Captain, with hours on type is only a phone call away...Good luck to all of you...
PS-I won't be one of those contract guys, BTW...
You are right and I am arguing apples and oranges...
In the USA this is not a big issue as it it addressed very well in most ALPA contracts...
However, I see your point very clearly now...2 crew a/c in Europe must have both pilots type rated, while in the US many F/O's flying B-747's and A-300's don't even hold an ATPL, nor are they required to...
It is a tough situation for you folks, but I would be very careful at this point, because as has been well discussed here on PPrune, a contract Captain, with hours on type is only a phone call away...Good luck to all of you...
PS-I won't be one of those contract guys, BTW...
Join Date: Feb 2000
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roundwego
Why, haven't you thought WHY this is happening??? To kindly help your beancounter above! To slowly erode your life? Get one!
FlapsOne
You may be right here and there, but you have totally put me off balpa. Your attitude is in need of a recency check in itself.
Gary Lager
Why were you under the impression??? Why are you sooooo happy in your right hand set rides? Tell us more so we could se the light as well!
Have you tried answering some of your brightly put questions above first?
alternatelaw
Certainly right, but that's also a balpa dependent act! Do it on your own and you may get hurt.
I am amazed this is such a major issue with some people.
FlapsOne
You may be right here and there, but you have totally put me off balpa. Your attitude is in need of a recency check in itself.
Gary Lager
I was under the impression that the title of our job was 'Pilot'
Far too many people attaching far too much sigificance to a job title.
Have you tried answering some of your brightly put questions above first?
alternatelaw
Certainly right, but that's also a balpa dependent act! Do it on your own and you may get hurt.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: A25R
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Maximum : Daily duty periods
Weekly duty periods
Monthly and annual fight time
A constant dibilitating roster of exteme earlies or lates (how can 5 consecutive four o'clock alarms be less fatiguing ?)
Minimum annual leave.
Inability to obtain requested days off.
Many low houred fo's
Unachievable turnaround times with often ineffective groundstaff (diy)
Flydras to ensure appropriate admonishment whilst busting a gut to achieve safe delivery of above mentioned schedules. (I note no flydras equivalent is active amongst the office bound inventors of all these requirements)
And now rhs ops as well.
Whilst management pontificate about flight safety in all it's far reaching corners the collective of the extemeties mentioned is simply paying lip service to overall safety.
With far less than 50% membership balpa has become irrelevant in safe guarding T & C's. The bickering on these threads says it all.
When you are tired and rushed getting airborne is probably not a good thing. Stand up for yourselves and decline if it doesn't look good.
Toodle pip !
Weekly duty periods
Monthly and annual fight time
A constant dibilitating roster of exteme earlies or lates (how can 5 consecutive four o'clock alarms be less fatiguing ?)
Minimum annual leave.
Inability to obtain requested days off.
Many low houred fo's
Unachievable turnaround times with often ineffective groundstaff (diy)
Flydras to ensure appropriate admonishment whilst busting a gut to achieve safe delivery of above mentioned schedules. (I note no flydras equivalent is active amongst the office bound inventors of all these requirements)
And now rhs ops as well.
Whilst management pontificate about flight safety in all it's far reaching corners the collective of the extemeties mentioned is simply paying lip service to overall safety.
With far less than 50% membership balpa has become irrelevant in safe guarding T & C's. The bickering on these threads says it all.
When you are tired and rushed getting airborne is probably not a good thing. Stand up for yourselves and decline if it doesn't look good.
Toodle pip !
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: UK
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Having been tango'ed for about a year now I have slowly had my rose tinted specs darkened slowly!
RANT ON
Now I know nothing is perfect at easyJet but as many say it is quite close to becoming a very good airline. I speak to so many captains who speak of it 2 years ago where, whilst it was hard work was still a good place to work.
I just see now that we are getting sillier and sillier, and bickering amongst ourselves about an everdecreasing set of standards that are slowly getting closer and closer to Ryanair's for a lot less money and whilst BALPA isn't doing a thing to stop this.
It is almost fact that anyone who is any good as a BALPA rep is sidelined and offered a management position (look at BA) and the rest are left to sing louder about how much they do in their spare time whilst us on the line get second hand info and small colmuns in the log, whilst the rest is filled with BA Blindline info and stuff about TVR's. Great, thanks.
What is this thread about? Captains in the RHS. Do I think it will compromise safety? No more than the 5 consecutive earlies, followed by disruption, followed by minimum rest in noisy cramped 737 cockpits and like others have said unrealistic turnarounds where cabin crew are now supposed to check 100% of lifejackets in a diminishing time? The job is going to get done day in day out due to the fact the aircraft are excellent...crews professional and the law of averages but the crew are tired sometimes fatigued. Who wants to call that in all the time if at all? These fatigue studies are a joke, they come in to see you after you get off leave. "...What do you think buddy?? I feel great I just had a week in the Maldives?!.."
Why dont we have someone from the CAA or these fatuge specialist spend 3 months shadowing one person unbeknown to crewing etc and see how they like it?
I am not joking when I say I have had turnarounds where I havent had time to go to the toilet, then we havent touched on how bad I 'feel' when I ask to go in the cruise.
This airline are on a massive money saving drive and yet they seem to be doing it in all the wrong places. They get rid of our Base Support Admin and replace it with Cabin Crew 'Assistants' who now look down their noses since I cant change my password for my email full of Phil Barton's propaganda which he now get's someone else to email out.
Then we see all this Step Change crap? I mean has anyone worked out what it is and who the hell are the Ambassadors?! Just have a look at some of the job titles and the number of people doing it. Imagine not one of them is on less than 25k average..to do what SAVE money?
So they think they can ask already overworked captains to sit in the RHS for 85k a year to be nothing more than a Radio Operator then great.
What will go next? Crew Food? No Pay Rise? Pay for recurrent training? No HOTAC?
I feel someone somewhere is losing the plot and slowly but surely we will see things getting to the point where Ryanair is a viable option as there will be nothing betwwen us in terms of conditions and if Ryanair do go to 5/4 as they are promising I will be seriously considering it. At least there you join knowing you are going to be screwed but get paid a lot more for it. They operate their airline on half the staff. We offer no more in terms of service than them...unless you speak to someone in Luton who say our on board branding blah blah....I hear more and more people thinking about it, for each RHS/LHS it is another 1k a month minimum...They are moving in on our bases and routes. I know many an FO that is just waiting for his Bus course, 500hours on type then he/she is off elsewhere but ahem...of course there are so many TRSS and Cadets waiting in the wings for their shot at the title...
I dont think anywhere is perfect, but I think slowly but surely this place is going to the dogs and it need not. This is the next in the line of management ideas which are ill thought out and just implemented before they guage any kind of impact on morale..and the answers are out there..it is not going to go down well, but when did that get in the way of a good idea?
RANT OFF (for another year!)
RANT ON
Now I know nothing is perfect at easyJet but as many say it is quite close to becoming a very good airline. I speak to so many captains who speak of it 2 years ago where, whilst it was hard work was still a good place to work.
I just see now that we are getting sillier and sillier, and bickering amongst ourselves about an everdecreasing set of standards that are slowly getting closer and closer to Ryanair's for a lot less money and whilst BALPA isn't doing a thing to stop this.
It is almost fact that anyone who is any good as a BALPA rep is sidelined and offered a management position (look at BA) and the rest are left to sing louder about how much they do in their spare time whilst us on the line get second hand info and small colmuns in the log, whilst the rest is filled with BA Blindline info and stuff about TVR's. Great, thanks.
What is this thread about? Captains in the RHS. Do I think it will compromise safety? No more than the 5 consecutive earlies, followed by disruption, followed by minimum rest in noisy cramped 737 cockpits and like others have said unrealistic turnarounds where cabin crew are now supposed to check 100% of lifejackets in a diminishing time? The job is going to get done day in day out due to the fact the aircraft are excellent...crews professional and the law of averages but the crew are tired sometimes fatigued. Who wants to call that in all the time if at all? These fatigue studies are a joke, they come in to see you after you get off leave. "...What do you think buddy?? I feel great I just had a week in the Maldives?!.."
Why dont we have someone from the CAA or these fatuge specialist spend 3 months shadowing one person unbeknown to crewing etc and see how they like it?
I am not joking when I say I have had turnarounds where I havent had time to go to the toilet, then we havent touched on how bad I 'feel' when I ask to go in the cruise.
This airline are on a massive money saving drive and yet they seem to be doing it in all the wrong places. They get rid of our Base Support Admin and replace it with Cabin Crew 'Assistants' who now look down their noses since I cant change my password for my email full of Phil Barton's propaganda which he now get's someone else to email out.
Then we see all this Step Change crap? I mean has anyone worked out what it is and who the hell are the Ambassadors?! Just have a look at some of the job titles and the number of people doing it. Imagine not one of them is on less than 25k average..to do what SAVE money?
So they think they can ask already overworked captains to sit in the RHS for 85k a year to be nothing more than a Radio Operator then great.
What will go next? Crew Food? No Pay Rise? Pay for recurrent training? No HOTAC?
I feel someone somewhere is losing the plot and slowly but surely we will see things getting to the point where Ryanair is a viable option as there will be nothing betwwen us in terms of conditions and if Ryanair do go to 5/4 as they are promising I will be seriously considering it. At least there you join knowing you are going to be screwed but get paid a lot more for it. They operate their airline on half the staff. We offer no more in terms of service than them...unless you speak to someone in Luton who say our on board branding blah blah....I hear more and more people thinking about it, for each RHS/LHS it is another 1k a month minimum...They are moving in on our bases and routes. I know many an FO that is just waiting for his Bus course, 500hours on type then he/she is off elsewhere but ahem...of course there are so many TRSS and Cadets waiting in the wings for their shot at the title...
I dont think anywhere is perfect, but I think slowly but surely this place is going to the dogs and it need not. This is the next in the line of management ideas which are ill thought out and just implemented before they guage any kind of impact on morale..and the answers are out there..it is not going to go down well, but when did that get in the way of a good idea?
RANT OFF (for another year!)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: UK
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wow impressive rant, my compliments TRon.
after being here for approaching 3 years I must admit that i feel that we are losing the plot a bit too.
a lot of what you are saying is true to a certain extent but a lot isn't either.
go and have a look at some of the european bases, you'll find a lot of happy campers there!
it seems that the UK bases (LTN in particular) are being screwed beyond recognizition, and personally I have never heard so many guys talking about leaving.
WHY CANT BALPA GET THEIR ACT TOGETHER?
Somewhere they lost a lot of credibility and it will be hard to ever get this back.
I'm a member but do not understand the lack of communication.
At least make it look like you are fighting and not just communicating and discussing with the company.
Knowing that it is the most productive way, members like to hear differently though!
after being here for approaching 3 years I must admit that i feel that we are losing the plot a bit too.
a lot of what you are saying is true to a certain extent but a lot isn't either.
go and have a look at some of the european bases, you'll find a lot of happy campers there!
it seems that the UK bases (LTN in particular) are being screwed beyond recognizition, and personally I have never heard so many guys talking about leaving.
WHY CANT BALPA GET THEIR ACT TOGETHER?
Somewhere they lost a lot of credibility and it will be hard to ever get this back.
I'm a member but do not understand the lack of communication.
At least make it look like you are fighting and not just communicating and discussing with the company.
Knowing that it is the most productive way, members like to hear differently though!
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Surrey UK
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Will you lot stop already with the "Balpa this and Balpa that.."!
BALPA is a U N I O N made up of members and the CC are locally appointed (elected) members of the union who have the guts to stand up and be counted, go toe to toe with the management, put in hours of extra work whilst doing a full roster like everyone else, and ultimately find that no bugger will stand up and be counted with them.
I bet half you people screaming about it aren't even Balpa members, or you just have some axe to grind and point at this lot and say "see? Balpa are crap, I told you"
If you are Balpa members, 'kin well get yourselves on the council and start kicking some management butt. You will soon discover that it is a very lonely place.
Otherwise - I suggest EZY captains follow the FOs out of the door asap. You are going to be paid less in the long run anyway, you might as well take the hit now on your own terms and be better off in the future.
BALPA is a U N I O N made up of members and the CC are locally appointed (elected) members of the union who have the guts to stand up and be counted, go toe to toe with the management, put in hours of extra work whilst doing a full roster like everyone else, and ultimately find that no bugger will stand up and be counted with them.
I bet half you people screaming about it aren't even Balpa members, or you just have some axe to grind and point at this lot and say "see? Balpa are crap, I told you"
If you are Balpa members, 'kin well get yourselves on the council and start kicking some management butt. You will soon discover that it is a very lonely place.
Otherwise - I suggest EZY captains follow the FOs out of the door asap. You are going to be paid less in the long run anyway, you might as well take the hit now on your own terms and be better off in the future.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Germany
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@ you gimboid
What kind of statement is this?
...I suggest EZY captains follow the FOs out of the door asap.....
A UNION in combination with the CC is there to protect the interest of itīs members!
The CC does it voluntary (respect for that)! However, it is just their task to hold up management decisions against the pilots!
Just leaving the company without any resistance to questionable management decisions is ridiculous. However, if BALPA and the CC give up and management can do more or less what they want.......than itīs time to go!
Back to the thread. RHS captains (PNF) operations have to be avoided.
How? That should be discussed internally!
What kind of statement is this?
...I suggest EZY captains follow the FOs out of the door asap.....
A UNION in combination with the CC is there to protect the interest of itīs members!
The CC does it voluntary (respect for that)! However, it is just their task to hold up management decisions against the pilots!
Just leaving the company without any resistance to questionable management decisions is ridiculous. However, if BALPA and the CC give up and management can do more or less what they want.......than itīs time to go!
Back to the thread. RHS captains (PNF) operations have to be avoided.
How? That should be discussed internally!
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: ScouseVille, Tennessee
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Stu, I guess they've managed to persuade enough FO's to sell their leave back in the coming months to cover the flights?! Double the leave at the time of my choosing doesn't interest me, I guess it did others. Fair enough deal I guess.
Crewing levels really have been ridiculous this year, but I'm sure noone in orange land will lose their job over the cancelled flights, subcharters and disruption to everyones lives.
Roll on the Airbus, and say goodbye to even more of us!!
Crewing levels really have been ridiculous this year, but I'm sure noone in orange land will lose their job over the cancelled flights, subcharters and disruption to everyones lives.
Roll on the Airbus, and say goodbye to even more of us!!
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Surrey UK
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Kraut
The important word in that particular sentence you quoted was OTHERWISE.
I do not advocate leaving in place of proper union consultation, but if that consultation is not supported by other members, then there are few other alternatives to steamrollering by greedy management.
Very glad, incidentally, to see the idea has been deep sixed.
The important word in that particular sentence you quoted was OTHERWISE.
I do not advocate leaving in place of proper union consultation, but if that consultation is not supported by other members, then there are few other alternatives to steamrollering by greedy management.
Very glad, incidentally, to see the idea has been deep sixed.
