DEC's Remember Emirates.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Dreamland
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DEC's Remember Emirates.
Hey folks,
just a timely reminder that Emirates Airlines provides a great opportunity for Direct Entry Captains.
Its a great airline, in a great place, providing many excellent opportunities.
The recent DECs all seem to be a great bunch, and have settled in well appearing very content and happy to have made the move.
Anyway with the somewhat revised recruitment team and selection process now in place to assist, it maybe just the answer for many Captains needing to get out of any rut and experience a postive change.
Nothing to lose.
Anyway Good Luck and Keep Discovering.
just a timely reminder that Emirates Airlines provides a great opportunity for Direct Entry Captains.
Its a great airline, in a great place, providing many excellent opportunities.
The recent DECs all seem to be a great bunch, and have settled in well appearing very content and happy to have made the move.
Anyway with the somewhat revised recruitment team and selection process now in place to assist, it maybe just the answer for many Captains needing to get out of any rut and experience a postive change.
Nothing to lose.
Anyway Good Luck and Keep Discovering.
Can not wait to see the replies to this one. Things getting a bit dull in brisvagas Bird on?
Don
Don
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Dreamland
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We are fortunate to work in a dynamic industry with growing opportunity for all, and sometimes its easy for our friends in other places to have overlooked or forgotten about the excellent possibilities available to Direct Entry Captains at Emirates.
A supportive "heads up" to our fellow "Band of Brothers". No more ....no less.
Therefore no spiteful or selfish replies will be entertained!
HappyDays.
A supportive "heads up" to our fellow "Band of Brothers". No more ....no less.
Therefore no spiteful or selfish replies will be entertained!
HappyDays.
Gee,
Isn't it nice to get an un-biased view from a selfless individual with no vested interest whatsoever.
My heat swells with Bon-Ami
Thanks Birdy, what a guy!!!
Isn't it nice to get an un-biased view from a selfless individual with no vested interest whatsoever.
My heat swells with Bon-Ami
Thanks Birdy, what a guy!!!
Too right Birdie, a very dynamic industry. I think quite a few of your former colleges are thinking of following your lead and heading home for a DEC job ...what will it be called? Virgin Pacific?
Can we use you as a reference? Guess the EBA did not go too well?
Don
Can we use you as a reference? Guess the EBA did not go too well?
Don
Last edited by donpizmeov; 16th May 2005 at 17:06.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<<Management should be rethinking some of their recent decisions and practices that have caused this change in perception>>
Why?
Direct entry Captains will always be in demand, simply because they have the experience that (so far as I can see) is aptly demonstrated by some of the recent First Officer postings sadly do NOT have.
Ain't likely to change anytime soon, either.
Why?
Direct entry Captains will always be in demand, simply because they have the experience that (so far as I can see) is aptly demonstrated by some of the recent First Officer postings sadly do NOT have.
Ain't likely to change anytime soon, either.
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That is exactly the point! There have been circumstances where FO`s have been left in the right seat to fly with DEC skippers less QUALIFIED in terms of both PIC and time in type and have had their commands delayed.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: UAE
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bird On,
You CAN't be serious - Surely this is a wind-up
For the record, by ANY industry standard, the F/Os at EK are more than qualified. I acknowledge that in an Ex-pat situation such as exists in Dubai, management can and will do anything to save a buck. (I would argue that this policy is at their peril.)
However, just because they CAN do this, does not make it right. Furthermore, pilots taking advantage of this bull-headed policy are for the most part turning their backs on the morality of the situation for what they see as personal gain. Interestingly, of the 10 or so EK DECs I’ve met, all were quite unhappy.
There are airlines that require DECs, but EK isn't one of them. (flite idol is bang on, btw.)
You CAN't be serious - Surely this is a wind-up
For the record, by ANY industry standard, the F/Os at EK are more than qualified. I acknowledge that in an Ex-pat situation such as exists in Dubai, management can and will do anything to save a buck. (I would argue that this policy is at their peril.)
However, just because they CAN do this, does not make it right. Furthermore, pilots taking advantage of this bull-headed policy are for the most part turning their backs on the morality of the situation for what they see as personal gain. Interestingly, of the 10 or so EK DECs I’ve met, all were quite unhappy.
There are airlines that require DECs, but EK isn't one of them. (flite idol is bang on, btw.)
Last edited by bus canuck; 20th May 2005 at 03:09.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
Age: 55
Posts: 2,832
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
411A - how you make me laugh
Experience - as you see it!! It doesn't count for everything in this business I'm sorry to tell you. In fact, having flown with one of our esteemed DEC's (turkeys fly better than this guy), I have to tell you he's obviously more experienced than you or I simply because he's had SO MANY EXPERIENCES - 'cos he ain't got the skill
Luckily there are plenty of good aviators amongst the F/O's to hold his hand and guide him to a safe landing!! Oh yes, the same F/O's who have lot's of flying time as well...
Experience - as you see it!! It doesn't count for everything in this business I'm sorry to tell you. In fact, having flown with one of our esteemed DEC's (turkeys fly better than this guy), I have to tell you he's obviously more experienced than you or I simply because he's had SO MANY EXPERIENCES - 'cos he ain't got the skill
Luckily there are plenty of good aviators amongst the F/O's to hold his hand and guide him to a safe landing!! Oh yes, the same F/O's who have lot's of flying time as well...
Join Date: May 2005
Location: middle of nowhere
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EK-FO's, I have some questions from up north (my name is my nature):
Why is it, that worldwide FO's are permanetly saving their employers (who treat them so badly) from screw-ups of Captains, especially DEC's?
Will you lateron be the first Captains who don't?
As you are expecting (requesting) fast command, at the same time hating that company so much, and apparently mostly hating Dubai aswell, when you will finally pass your upgrade, will you then stay with EK for life?
If not ,will you then, so morally correct as one points out, only apply as most junior FO's to new companies?
Why is it, that worldwide FO's are permanetly saving their employers (who treat them so badly) from screw-ups of Captains, especially DEC's?
Will you lateron be the first Captains who don't?
As you are expecting (requesting) fast command, at the same time hating that company so much, and apparently mostly hating Dubai aswell, when you will finally pass your upgrade, will you then stay with EK for life?
If not ,will you then, so morally correct as one points out, only apply as most junior FO's to new companies?
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
Age: 55
Posts: 2,832
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GF - to answer your questions. Yes, some F/O's hate EK and Dubai, then again lots don't!!! Doesn't mean we like the current policies emanating from various parts of Flight Ops - but, in that respect isn't that similar to many other airlines?
Oh yeah - I plan on sticking around here for many years And yes - everyone cocks up from time to time, but most of us are humble enough to say so, and then learn from it
Oh yeah - I plan on sticking around here for many years
And yes - everyone cocks up from time to time, but most of us are humble enough to say so, and then learn from it
Join Date: May 2005
Location: middle of nowhere
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That sounds a little less radical WK.
I am just against the propagated code of conduct:
A FO who leaves for a better situation (faster upgrade) is flexible, intelligent, sharp etc.etc.
A Captain who leaves for the same reason is categorised as immoral, unloyal etc.etc.
GF
I am just against the propagated code of conduct:
A FO who leaves for a better situation (faster upgrade) is flexible, intelligent, sharp etc.etc.
A Captain who leaves for the same reason is categorised as immoral, unloyal etc.etc.
GF
Join Date: May 2001
Location: HERE AND THERE
Posts: 863
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Useless
All this discussion is perfectly pointless given that:
NO MATTER of what me, you or they think, do or consider reasonable and fair, EK ( and most employers) will consistently do WHAT THEY WANT, simply because we are not in position to change it...
NO MATTER of what me, you or they think, do or consider reasonable and fair, EK ( and most employers) will consistently do WHAT THEY WANT, simply because we are not in position to change it...
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: UAE
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FF, the point is this person, "Bird On" is publicly soliciting for DECs at EK and representing that it's a good option. It seems worthwhile to point out that he's wrong.
GF, the "moral" aspect to this issue is that EK changed the conditions for upgrade to suit their economic needs. Many (most?) of us didn't come here for the "quick upgrade" - we already were Captains. However, Emirates had a 10 year tradition of upgrading from the right seat. We trusted that and decided to wait our turns. Can you imagine that they suddenly changed perverted the rules so much that in some cases guys are hired DEC with no experience on type while 3 year experienced guys cool their heels?
Like WK, I don't hate Dubai or EK and plan to be here for the long haul. That doesn't mean that they are beyond criticism nor are guys who use an unjust situation to their advantage. To answer your other question, I wouldn't do it and haven't in the past when presented the opportunity.
GF, the "moral" aspect to this issue is that EK changed the conditions for upgrade to suit their economic needs. Many (most?) of us didn't come here for the "quick upgrade" - we already were Captains. However, Emirates had a 10 year tradition of upgrading from the right seat. We trusted that and decided to wait our turns. Can you imagine that they suddenly changed perverted the rules so much that in some cases guys are hired DEC with no experience on type while 3 year experienced guys cool their heels?
Like WK, I don't hate Dubai or EK and plan to be here for the long haul. That doesn't mean that they are beyond criticism nor are guys who use an unjust situation to their advantage. To answer your other question, I wouldn't do it and haven't in the past when presented the opportunity.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: middle of nowhere
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
bus canuck
I see your point.
With your stand however, you more or less glue any Captain to the company who upgraded him. Now if a company starts screwing up and going into demise, all it’s captains would be doomed for a downgrade when changing ship.
You’ll get to my age faster than you like and you’ll eventually get into such a situation with wife, kids, a lot of merit and hours etc., again faster than you like. Maybe not at EK, but then you never know, and your stand applies to all companies I guess.
I have been there and I don’t wish you will ever. It’s hard to defend these morally upright positions once the s**t hits YOUR fan.
It’s a jungle out there and you can’t ask others to stay in it just that you can get to the nice clearing the day YOU thought you’d find it. You trusted your management, that was your choice!
If in need of a job and offered either LH or RH seat by EK, I admit I would take the LH seat. I just wonder how many of the contributors to these forums, apart from you bk, would in real life, and not only on forums, take the other….
GF
With your stand however, you more or less glue any Captain to the company who upgraded him. Now if a company starts screwing up and going into demise, all it’s captains would be doomed for a downgrade when changing ship.
You’ll get to my age faster than you like and you’ll eventually get into such a situation with wife, kids, a lot of merit and hours etc., again faster than you like. Maybe not at EK, but then you never know, and your stand applies to all companies I guess.
I have been there and I don’t wish you will ever. It’s hard to defend these morally upright positions once the s**t hits YOUR fan.
It’s a jungle out there and you can’t ask others to stay in it just that you can get to the nice clearing the day YOU thought you’d find it. You trusted your management, that was your choice!
If in need of a job and offered either LH or RH seat by EK, I admit I would take the LH seat. I just wonder how many of the contributors to these forums, apart from you bk, would in real life, and not only on forums, take the other….
GF
GF,
The EK FOs were told at a pilots meeting when the DEC thing was announced, that none of them would be disadvantaged or held back because of DECs! It was pretty obvious then, when aircraft deliveries were taken into account, that this was untrue. So once again these guys were lied to. When the managers were questioned on this point, they said they had it all in hand and would work around it to ensure no-one was disadvantaged. It would seem this was then forgotton during the drinks break. The comapny was also on record from a few years earlier of reversing a decision to hire DECs when the pilot body voiced concerns over the issue.
I think its true to say that guys joining after the decision to hire DECs have no reason to complain, as they knew the deal. For those who joined before this decision, and who are presently being held back, well I think they are quite justified to vent as much as they like. One of the major reasons they joined, and in a lot of cases, left a LHS job to join here in the RHS, has gone.
I think when you look at the min requirements for a guy to get a interview here, you can see these guys have been round the block once or twice. A large number of the guys have totals and experience far greater than some of the DECs. But, the company will not count the hours flown with EK towards the total for DEC. Go figure!
Bus Canuk
I do not think Bird-on has been working for EK for a few years now!!! Gotta wonder huh!
Don
The EK FOs were told at a pilots meeting when the DEC thing was announced, that none of them would be disadvantaged or held back because of DECs! It was pretty obvious then, when aircraft deliveries were taken into account, that this was untrue. So once again these guys were lied to. When the managers were questioned on this point, they said they had it all in hand and would work around it to ensure no-one was disadvantaged. It would seem this was then forgotton during the drinks break. The comapny was also on record from a few years earlier of reversing a decision to hire DECs when the pilot body voiced concerns over the issue.
I think its true to say that guys joining after the decision to hire DECs have no reason to complain, as they knew the deal. For those who joined before this decision, and who are presently being held back, well I think they are quite justified to vent as much as they like. One of the major reasons they joined, and in a lot of cases, left a LHS job to join here in the RHS, has gone.
I think when you look at the min requirements for a guy to get a interview here, you can see these guys have been round the block once or twice. A large number of the guys have totals and experience far greater than some of the DECs. But, the company will not count the hours flown with EK towards the total for DEC. Go figure!
Bus Canuk
I do not think Bird-on has been working for EK for a few years now!!! Gotta wonder huh!
Don
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Gulf playing Golf
Posts: 1,141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Look...their airline, their toys, their rubber rules.
Its not the DECs fault. Blame the 3 years rule and whoever made it. When I grow up I want to be a DEC too. We all do. Most guys are not going to stay here for a full career, because we dont have a pension.
So when YOU have been here for 10-12 years, which job are YOU going to apply for? EasyJet FO or a 16000 USD DEC job? Be honest...
The commands are coming around 3 years - plus minus a couple of months - so its strictly theoretical.
Innncccoommminnngggggggg
Its not the DECs fault. Blame the 3 years rule and whoever made it. When I grow up I want to be a DEC too. We all do. Most guys are not going to stay here for a full career, because we dont have a pension.
So when YOU have been here for 10-12 years, which job are YOU going to apply for? EasyJet FO or a 16000 USD DEC job? Be honest...
The commands are coming around 3 years - plus minus a couple of months - so its strictly theoretical.
Innncccoommminnngggggggg
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Asia
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When you are in the right-hand seat, it is easy to bitch about captains you fly with. When you change seats, the job changes character:
As an F/O your priorities are to make smooth touchdowns, whereas as a captain, a greaser is not a priority, rather the "big picture" takes the front seat.
As an example, I flew back to homebase in ****ty weather. My F/O looks at the ETA in the box and says something like "I should be able to make the xx o'clock airport train". In contrast, in my mind I was already going through a missed approach followed by a diversion to another airfield, the consequences to passengers, whom to contact, etc, etc.
So you may think that you're a hotshot F/O, that you know how to fly the plane better than the skipper (sometimes you do) but things aren't quite as black or white as you might think.
As for DECs, do doctors apply for nurse's jobs?
As an F/O your priorities are to make smooth touchdowns, whereas as a captain, a greaser is not a priority, rather the "big picture" takes the front seat.
As an example, I flew back to homebase in ****ty weather. My F/O looks at the ETA in the box and says something like "I should be able to make the xx o'clock airport train". In contrast, in my mind I was already going through a missed approach followed by a diversion to another airfield, the consequences to passengers, whom to contact, etc, etc.
So you may think that you're a hotshot F/O, that you know how to fly the plane better than the skipper (sometimes you do) but things aren't quite as black or white as you might think.
As for DECs, do doctors apply for nurse's jobs?