DEC's Remember Emirates.
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Che
'Your' first officer had more than likely already been through in his mind what he was going to do in the event of a go-around/diversion/communications/fuel calculations. Now he was thinking about the train ride home.
Sounds like he was well ahead of the game and probably well ahead of you.
The comparison between doctors/nurses is way off-line. How many nurses become consultants?
'Your' first officer had more than likely already been through in his mind what he was going to do in the event of a go-around/diversion/communications/fuel calculations. Now he was thinking about the train ride home.
Sounds like he was well ahead of the game and probably well ahead of you.
The comparison between doctors/nurses is way off-line. How many nurses become consultants?
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Wow Che X, is that how it works? I`m so glad there are professional skippers like you up there saving the day, every day form the foolish lobotomised fo`s. Having flown in both seats it is my opinion that it is far easier to be the skipper than fo, for, but not limited to the fact that I don`t have to deal with the superiority complex you display!
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Che - you must be a bit stupid. As has been pointed out by a number of posts on this thread - MOST F/O'S HERE AT EK ALREADY HAVE SIGNIFICANT COMMAND TIME!!!!! and are therefore well aware of the big picture!!
As for greasers, well, one of our esteemed DEC's that I flew with recently was trying for one - touched down right at the end of the TDZ.... not the best airmanship really
Especially on a fairly short runway.
As for greasers, well, one of our esteemed DEC's that I flew with recently was trying for one - touched down right at the end of the TDZ.... not the best airmanship really
Especially on a fairly short runway.
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\\\Che - you must be a bit stupid. As has been pointed out by a number of posts on this thread - MOST F/O'S HERE AT EK ALREADY HAVE SIGNIFICANT COMMAND TIME!!!!! and are therefore well aware of the big picture.\\\
Oh really, White Knight?
Well aware of the big picture, were they?
Then they should have known all the aspects of that big picture...as in, you never ever give up the LH seat (of your own choosing) to play in someone else's sand box, without a very good reason.
Suppose they forgot that part of the picture.
Live and learn, eh?
Oh really, White Knight?
Well aware of the big picture, were they?
Then they should have known all the aspects of that big picture...as in, you never ever give up the LH seat (of your own choosing) to play in someone else's sand box, without a very good reason.
Suppose they forgot that part of the picture.
Live and learn, eh?
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MOST F/O's IN EK HAVE SIGNIFICANT COMMAND TIME - well then what a mistaka to maka join as an F/O.
Golden rule - once in the LHS think verrrrry carefully about moving out of it. Most people who do it don't repeat don't get back in the LHS in the timeframne that they envisaged.
For the other F/O's - The DEC's will mostly have been through hard times and tough decisions themselves to get where they are today. You will be Capts yourselves one day and unless you think you're going to spend the next 20 plus years in EK then you'll be looking to go somewhere as a DEC - .......hmmmm? Or perhaps you've got some moral objection to that and you'll happily explain to the wife and kids why things are going to be cut back as you voluntarily step into the RHS again to avoid upsetting the young chaps.
No, I don't think so - do you?
Grow up guys
Golden rule - once in the LHS think verrrrry carefully about moving out of it. Most people who do it don't repeat don't get back in the LHS in the timeframne that they envisaged.
For the other F/O's - The DEC's will mostly have been through hard times and tough decisions themselves to get where they are today. You will be Capts yourselves one day and unless you think you're going to spend the next 20 plus years in EK then you'll be looking to go somewhere as a DEC - .......hmmmm? Or perhaps you've got some moral objection to that and you'll happily explain to the wife and kids why things are going to be cut back as you voluntarily step into the RHS again to avoid upsetting the young chaps.
No, I don't think so - do you?
Grow up guys
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That's the point. Those who complain are mostly former captains who would like their position back asap. At EK there seems to be that "fast track" thing. This means FO's with former command would like to upgrade faster than their collegues without. For these simple FO's these guy's are no different to DEC's!!
GF
GF
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Of course we bypassed F/Os could stomach flying with the DECs a little bit more easily if they weren't so uniformly useless. After having to jump through all sorts of hoops and build various giant lego toys just to get an F/O slot, it is particularly galling to have these wunderkinds come breezing through the interviews (where the standards are of necessity dropped significantly) and then have to guide them around the network where many of them are definitely out of their depth. OK, if the company wants to hire DECs, that's their perogative, but could they at least hire some good ones. Hey what about hiring 411A? He seems to know it all. Oh and thanks Che Xindamail, I never realised my priority was to make smooth landings, see? I am learning already.
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W K
Maybe not, but it doesn't need physical presence to realise that there is a high level of immaturity or a frightening lack of CRM capability among EK FO's, reading your contributions.
Making valid points, some of you sound very unprofessional, so further PP discussions are futile.
GF over and out
Maybe not, but it doesn't need physical presence to realise that there is a high level of immaturity or a frightening lack of CRM capability among EK FO's, reading your contributions.
Making valid points, some of you sound very unprofessional, so further PP discussions are futile.
GF over and out
I disagree GF. FOs have been running flat out try and keep up with the moving goal posts in the sand, which are EK T&Cs. They have been lied to (with regards pay, rosters and commands), and they have been bypassed for no reason. Yet they are still fly huge hours per month. They put up with rostering practices that are hard on home and family life. And still are so flexibe with regards roster changes due to shortages of crew, that they are keeping the company running. They in fact are pleasure to go to work with. For you to suggest that they are an unprofessional group is very wide of the mark.
It is interesting that for someone with no vested interest in the airline, and obviously having no idea of the actual situation here, you are very quick to get into a slagging match. I think this reflects more on your CRM skills than on others. You would not be related to VVV would you? You both seem to share the same endearing qualities.
Don
It is interesting that for someone with no vested interest in the airline, and obviously having no idea of the actual situation here, you are very quick to get into a slagging match. I think this reflects more on your CRM skills than on others. You would not be related to VVV would you? You both seem to share the same endearing qualities.
Don
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Gretchenfrage "Over & Out?" Thank goodness for that. But I would have liked to discovered why old Gretchy thinks that it is immature of me to expect the DECs to be at the very LEAST my equal when it comes to managing a wide bodied jet flight halfway across the world? And no this isn't a case of some bitter F/O thinking that he can always do it better than the old fart in the LHS. The large majority of captains I fly with are switched on clever guys who know their SOPs, operate in a smooth professional manner and are a pleasure to fly with. This is why it comes as such a shock to have to babysit a DEC who was hired supposedly because all those "immature" F/Os aren't suitable. Still I agree with you on one thing "Frage" - discussing it with you is futile.
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AH - you beat me to it!! Exactly what I was going to say.
Besides, I have nothing against the DEC's personally - don't blame them for taking a job. BUT - having to hold the hands of the FEW duds who got through the recruiting and training net Guess all that experience means stuff all eh 411
Besides, I have nothing against the DEC's personally - don't blame them for taking a job. BUT - having to hold the hands of the FEW duds who got through the recruiting and training net
Guess all that experience means stuff all eh 411
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Interesting point re GF Don. Look at when he registered to use this site! I suspect he is yet again one of these sycophants with no kahoonas hiding behind user name changes.
Agree with everything you say re the FO's. I don't know how these guys manage to keep their senses of humour given the modified truths they have had dished out to them. Guess the ones leaving just had no humour reserves left. Good luck to you guys.
Agree with everything you say re the FO's. I don't know how these guys manage to keep their senses of humour given the modified truths they have had dished out to them. Guess the ones leaving just had no humour reserves left. Good luck to you guys.
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Austin Holed in particular, who wrote
"F/Os could stomach flying with the DECs a little more easily if they weren't so uniformly useless" and
"and then have to guide them round the network where many of them are out of their depth..."
and then again
"old fart in the LHS" and
"comes as such a shock to have to babysit a DEC"
what you have to realize is "you need balls to be a captain!"
If you ever have a problem on the flight deck you need to speak up - you can't come running to an anonymous forum and crying to everyone here. You need to be able to deal with problems as they arise and sort them out responsibly and diplomatically.
Be a big boy and speak up to the people concerned or keep your little rants about the DECs to yourself!
"F/Os could stomach flying with the DECs a little more easily if they weren't so uniformly useless" and
"and then have to guide them round the network where many of them are out of their depth..."
and then again
"old fart in the LHS" and
"comes as such a shock to have to babysit a DEC"
what you have to realize is "you need balls to be a captain!"
If you ever have a problem on the flight deck you need to speak up - you can't come running to an anonymous forum and crying to everyone here. You need to be able to deal with problems as they arise and sort them out responsibly and diplomatically.
Be a big boy and speak up to the people concerned or keep your little rants about the DECs to yourself!
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It is obvious from the previous posts that the problem is the bruised egos of experienced guys from various backgrounds stuck on the right seat while others get the commands.Therefore
1. white knight...your f/o chipand real attitudes is starting to affect your posts.If you were a skipper before you now know what your f/os probably thought of you.
2. it happens everywhere, not just at ek.
3. As 411a said you voluntarily gave up your commands for emirates. It didnt pay off. Deal with it. You will one day be in the same position.
4. bus canuck..after spending 4 months in canada I can now appreciate why your screwed up jobsworth protectionist, provincial, proffessionaly discourteous industry probably forced you (and many other canucks) to the gulf.Ive seen more global awareness in an african village. It would be a mistake and nieve to transpose your lofty "i would never do it" principles to dubai. It isnt cananda mate.You probably took what you could at the time,just bad luck pal
If these guys allegedly checked out straight onto widebody left seat with no previous then it cant be that hard can it, so maybe all you situation saving , captain babysitting f/os arent as good as you think.
I turned down an f/o job last year. Might apply again at the end of the year ...as a Captain. I sympathise with your frustrations but it wont affect my desicion. As someone said earlier you cant be all that experienced generally in the industry if you got yourself in this pickle and think it local to ek. More than one way to play the game.
1. white knight...your f/o chipand real attitudes is starting to affect your posts.If you were a skipper before you now know what your f/os probably thought of you.
2. it happens everywhere, not just at ek.
3. As 411a said you voluntarily gave up your commands for emirates. It didnt pay off. Deal with it. You will one day be in the same position.
4. bus canuck..after spending 4 months in canada I can now appreciate why your screwed up jobsworth protectionist, provincial, proffessionaly discourteous industry probably forced you (and many other canucks) to the gulf.Ive seen more global awareness in an african village. It would be a mistake and nieve to transpose your lofty "i would never do it" principles to dubai. It isnt cananda mate.You probably took what you could at the time,just bad luck pal
If these guys allegedly checked out straight onto widebody left seat with no previous then it cant be that hard can it, so maybe all you situation saving , captain babysitting f/os arent as good as you think.
I turned down an f/o job last year. Might apply again at the end of the year ...as a Captain. I sympathise with your frustrations but it wont affect my desicion. As someone said earlier you cant be all that experienced generally in the industry if you got yourself in this pickle and think it local to ek. More than one way to play the game.
Interesting lot of posts here. To think this thread was started by an ex employee who is afraid the EK fellas are going to take his new job, and kept alive by a bunch of wannabe DECs.
Must be a sh@t job you have now Dicksie if joining EK would be an improvement. No doubt the saftings we endure will be a step up for you. It is terrible to think that anyone would have to work in such conditions. Good luck.
Don
Must be a sh@t job you have now Dicksie if joining EK would be an improvement. No doubt the saftings we endure will be a step up for you. It is terrible to think that anyone would have to work in such conditions. Good luck.
Don
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\\\Guess all that experience means stuff all eh 411\\\
Well, I dunno, White Knight, surely the company certainly thought so....and their opinion is what counts, not yours.
Well, I dunno, White Knight, surely the company certainly thought so....and their opinion is what counts, not yours.
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dicksie, do some research - it doesn't happen everywhere. Read the posts properly, not just what you want to see. The point is that these F/O's joined under a set of conditions, and the conditions have been changed enormously to the detriment of their careers. Some of the guys gave up their left seats to join here, because the T & C's when they joined made it look attractive. This happened in CX years ago; blokes would resign their commands in companies to go right seat CX because the T & C's made it an attractive proposition. No different from the blokes who have similarly joined EK. However, EK has changed their T & C's. And,when the company couldn't get the wide-body, internationally experienced DEC's they thought would come flocking to the wonderful EK, they lowered the requirements for the DEC's. Therein lies the problem. Go on now, apply again. Even if they take you, you still have to pass the course.
Last edited by Believe Brother; 25th May 2005 at 17:50.
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Dicksy
Having already declined an offer of employment, why would the Company want to give you a second offer now that a left seat is possible.Did you give a valid reason for not coming originally? We look to employ people for many reasons, among which, is a desire to work for Emirates.....not JUST the fact that it's got to be left seat or nothing.
Still, good luck if you do decide to come for interview.....you may just need it!
Regards
BYMONEK
Having already declined an offer of employment, why would the Company want to give you a second offer now that a left seat is possible.Did you give a valid reason for not coming originally? We look to employ people for many reasons, among which, is a desire to work for Emirates.....not JUST the fact that it's got to be left seat or nothing.
Still, good luck if you do decide to come for interview.....you may just need it!
Regards
BYMONEK